forever in debt to mo lewis Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 "You could however get a rock of crack for $5....hence the crack epidemic of the late 80's." yeah I mean Ive seen New Jack City..I know all about 80s Harlem with Rich Porter, AZ, and Alpo but..I also know people who use cocaine moderately..only on weekends as a party favor..not the center of the party..people can use cocaine and not be addicted...same with alcohol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG A Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Yes, cocaine is more harmful in the short term only because why? The majority of narcotic addicts either eventually get help, "age-out" or wind up dead. If you re-read the part of my statement quoted above, I agree alcohol is more widespread and prevalent...but that doesn't make it more harmful on a case by case basis. And I don't think that you are including me in the "right to defend it (alcohol)" part of your quote, but if you do and think that's what I am attempting to do, clearly you misunderstand me. I have known plenty of alcoholics and have had several friends with narcotic addictions. From my experience, both can certainly be harmful, but there really isn't much comparison between the two. 622754[/snapback] What exactly are you comparing? Which one is more devastating or which one makes you do anything to get it? To me, comparing them is a mute point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiL10(s)ArEaJoKe Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 When I was younger 19-21 I was a drunk!!!! Alcoholic no, but I was a drunk!!!!! If I had used coke, meth, whatever as much as I drank I would have been an addict!!!! It takes quite a while for the body to become dependent( to feel well) on alcohol. Half a dozen uses of meth,coke etc can be the beginings of an addiction, where on day three or four of a "high" you stop using and you get sick...so you use some more, and bam your addicted..... There is zero comparision between the two...... but alcohol is the "measuring tape" most people chose to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiL10(s)ArEaJoKe Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) "You could however get a rock of crack for $5....hence the crack epidemic of the late 80's." yeah I mean Ive seen New Jack City..I know all about 80s Harlem with Rich Porter, AZ, and Alpo but..I also know people who use cocaine moderately..only on weekends as a party favor..not the center of the party..people can use cocaine and not be addicted...same with alcohol 622760[/snapback] Would it be safer to say this is the only time you see them use it???? There are many many many bussiness professinals that use cocaine to cope with the high pressure enviroment of business today, they use "recreationally"on the weekend to stay "well" ...... I would like to meet a person or couple that uses coke "moderately" and spend a month with em and see just how "moderately" their use really is....... Edited December 20, 2004 by LiL10(s)ArEaJoKe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Lil 10's I can honestly say Im 100 percent positive I know when these people use. They are some of my best friends( i know some people here will judge me based upon that comment).I know their party habits. Im in constant contact with these people and live within minutes of them. If they were using, theyd be drinking too, and Id be asked to join.I know some people who use coke maybe 8-10 times a month..and I know others who use it maybe once or twice a month..sometimes going even longer without it..I honestly dont know a person who uses without it being accompanied by drinking "When I was younger 19-21 I was a drunk!!!! Alcoholic no, but I was a drunk!!!!!" I completely understand where you comin from..I used to drink 4-5 times a week minimum...im 24 now..ive kicked that..its a college lifestyle thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 However, I don't think anyone can argue that cocaine is any worse than alcohol. 622657[/snapback] What exactly are you comparing? Which one is more devastating or which one makes you do anything to get it? To me, comparing them is a mute point. 622791[/snapback] I'm not sure what your point is, and I'm not sure that you know either...my initial point however was to address Brent's quote from above...that he doubts anyone can argue that cocaine is worse than alcohol. You are right, there is no comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Coming from a completely unbiased POV 622669[/snapback] You guys are missing my point. How can you justify making pot illegal if alcohol is legal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG A Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I'm not sure what your point is, and I'm not sure that you know either...my initial point however was to address Brent's quote from above...that he doubts anyone can argue that cocaine is worse than alcohol. You are right, there is no comparison. 622855[/snapback] My point is that they are both horrible addictions. One is socially accepted and the other is not. You are saying that cocaine is worse than alcohol. I disagree with you. Lets agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) Would it be safer to say this is the only time you see them use it???? There are many many many bussiness professinals that use cocaine to cope with the high pressure enviroment of business today, they use "recreationally"on the weekend to stay "well" ...... I would like to meet a person or couple that uses coke "moderately" and spend a month with em and see just how "moderately" their use really is....... 622817[/snapback] I agree with you entirely here. Even if we concede that there may be a few individuals who can truly use cocaine recreationally only, they would absolutely be the exceptions. In contrast, a great many can drink socially and never come close to being an alcoholic. On a relative basis, there is no question which is more addictive. Edited December 20, 2004 by Skrappy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 You guys are missing my point. How can you justify making pot illegal if alcohol is legal? 622866[/snapback] Man, there are so many tangents with this thread it's hard to keep up...I cannot and would not make that argument. I personally don't view Josh Gordon any "worse" or more harmful than alcohol and cigarettes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Are you serious? I don't even think that statement warrants an argument...if you've ever had any experience with alcoholics or narcotic addicts (and I'm not implying that you haven't...I don't know), you'd either be insane or just not paying attention to think that cocaine isn't more harmful than alcohol. I'm not saying alchohol isn't damaging, and alcoholism may indeed be a more widespread problem in our society than cocaine, but there is no comparison between the addictive natures or damage that can come from the two. I doubt many people have ever prostituted themselves out for alcohol...the same cannot be said for cocaine, men and women both. 622695[/snapback] I'm sorry, but you are wrong. It comes down to a question of morals. Maybe people on alcohol don't prostitute themselves, but I'd say murder is worse than prostitution, and that surely happens under the influence of alcohol! See, your perception of alcohol has been skewed because it is socially acceptable, while other drugs are not. That does not mean, however, that one is more dangerous than the other. You can argue the damages of both all day, the point is that alcohol abuse results in many of the same consequences as other illegal drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 the coca planet in natural..... cocaine is not. Just like the poppy plant is to heroin. Coke is result of using acetone, ether & God knows what other chemicals to produce it. for that matter....crystal meth is natural...... it's made & produced with Athena that's under your kitchen sink. I agree.....you can't compare the physical ill affects from narcotics to Josh Gordon..... it's apples & oranges. ...... it certainly stimulates thinking but you'll have a hard time convincing people that it enhances awareness. Smoking a 1/2 dozen bonghits & zoning out in front of the TV isn't exactly enhancing awareness. what it does do to alotta people is make them paranoid as Athena.... maybe that's what you're getting at. Josh Gordon also raises your blood pressure considerably..... not much different than smoking grits. 622722[/snapback] I should have said social awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Man, there are so many tangents with this thread it's hard to keep up...I cannot and would not make that argument. I personally don't view Josh Gordon any "worse" or more harmful than alcohol and cigarettes. 622876[/snapback] Right! That's the only point I was trying to make. I'm just catching up on the posts now. I'm lagging behind a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) I'm sorry, but you are wrong. It comes down to a question of morals. Maybe people on alcohol don't prostitute themselves, but I'd say murder is worse than prostitution, and that surely happens under the influence of alcohol! See, your perception of alcohol has been skewed because it is socially acceptable, while other drugs are not. That does not mean, however, that one is more dangerous than the other. You can argue the damages of both all day, the point is that alcohol abuse results in many of the same consequences as other illegal drugs. 622878[/snapback] I guess I just completely disagree with you. Morals has absolutely nothing to do with my point of view whatsoever...people can do what they want as far as I'm concerned. But I have personally seen the respective consequences of both alcohol and cocaine abuse, and I've seen too many things that run contrary to what you say here to pretend otherwise. Sure some people commit murder under the effects of alcohol. Some people commit robberies and murder to get the money they need to buy cocaine and other narcotics as well. Some other people commit murder under the affects of no drugs or substances at all, illegal or otherwise. Trust me when I say again that my opinion has absolutely nothing at all to do with morals or what is socially acceptable. My opinion is not from a morally judgmental point of view at all, it's simply from things that I have personally witnessed. Edited December 20, 2004 by Skrappy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonestar39 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 What exactly did he do wrong? The guy made a decision about his life. He apparently has no love for football. So tell me, what is so bizarre about that? 621543[/snapback] Uh, Brentastic did you read my post or could you not keep your fingers from flailing in what you imagined you were reading? His demeanor, his reasoning, his behaviour, that's what was bizarre. I don't care if he plays football again or not and my comments did nothing to suggest that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I guess I just completely disagree with you. Morals has absolutely nothing to do with my point of view whatsoever...people can do what they want as far as I'm concerned. But I have personally seen the respective consequences of both alcohol and cocaine abuse, and I've seen too many things that run contrary to what you say here to pretend otherwise. Sure some people commit murder under the effects of alcohol. Some people commit robberies and murder to get the money they need to buy cocaine and other narcotics as well. Some other people commit murder under the affects of no drugs or substances at all, illegal or otherwise. Trust me when I say again that my opinion has absolutely nothing at all to do with morals or what is socially acceptable. My opinion is not from a morally judgmental point of view at all, it's simply from things that I have personally witnessed. 622894[/snapback] I respectfully disagree. I've been personally involved with both as well, and I'm here to tell you that one is no worse than the other. There are extreme examples for both, so you cannot measure the consequences in comparison. That's all. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 "Even if we concede that there may be a few individuals who can truly use cocaine recreationally only, they would absolutely be the exceptions." well I mean concede if you want..and think its an exception if you will...just because you may not know someone who uses moderately doesnt mean it doesnt exist I know a kid my age,great friend, who is a high school teacher and runs his own painting business on the side..works about 13 hours a day maybe 4 days a week..owns his own home and drives a 2004 model BMW...this kid will sniff a gram of coke on friday and one on saturday when he goes out drinking with friends..mostly to keep himself awake and lively..never uses during the week then you have LT spending a g a day on it just like you have some people having a few drinks with colleagues after work and you have some people who get wasted daily or nightly... you have casual gamblers who will go for a weekend to vegas atlantic city, or foxwoods and mohegan sun..then you have degenerates its all goes back to the tree falling in the woods..just cause you dont hear it..it still exists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Uh, Brentastic did you read my post or could you not keep your fingers from flailing in what you imagined you were reading? His demeanor, his reasoning, his behaviour, that's what was bizarre. I don't care if he plays football again or not and my comments did nothing to suggest that. 622895[/snapback] I guess I could not keep my fingers from flailing. I had a knee-jerk reaction because I've heard so many people complain about his sudden retirement. My post was not in response to you as much as it was in response to the public's perception of his decision. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonestar39 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I guess I could not keep my fingers from flailing. I had a knee-jerk reaction because I've heard so many people complain about his sudden retirement. My post was not in response to you as much as it was in response to the public's perception of his decision. Peace. 622905[/snapback] That's okay we all knee jerk at some time. I just couldn't figure out what I said that jarred it! LOL. Honestly the arguments over the legality and damage of drugs that can be argued to the end of our day. Personally, I've seen more bad come out of a person drinking that smoking Josh Gordon also. This interview was just puzzling as to why it was done by him because to me he came across as more of a really f'd up person that I could have imagined. Him quitting football was definitely in the best interest of Ricky and the NFL. Now, he has personal matters which were not eluded to but I guess they are not going to be handled properly without intervention. The guy seemed NOT at peace as he described but more as someone who has isolated himself to avoid responsibility. He may be on the track to finding peace but as he said that journey has just started. I hope he ends up correcting all his wrongs or he will never find what he is looking for. He had a very high BS factor working too. It's like you could never get a grip on what was the truth and what wasn't. Very schizoid...I would never leave him or Michael Jackson in the same room with any kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) well I mean concede if you want..and think its an exception if you will...just because you may not know someone who uses moderately doesnt mean it doesnt exist I know a kid my age,great friend, who is a high school teacher and runs his own painting business on the side..works about 13 hours a day maybe 4 days a week..owns his own home and drives a 2004 model BMW...this kid will sniff a gram of coke on friday and one on saturday when he goes out drinking with friends..mostly to keep himself awake and lively..never uses during the week As was mentioned previously, maybe he never uses during the week that you are aware of...that doesn't mean he never uses during the week. People with addictions tend to be good at covering their tracks. Assuming for a moment that the weekends are the only time that he uses, do you not realize that by your very description that still paints your friend an addict? By your portrait of him he uses every Friday and Saturday. For what? To keep him awake and lively. Anyone who regularly uses drugs to alter their personality or help them cope is an addict and really I fail to see how you can not realize that. Does him being an addict mean that he isn't a "great friend" or in any way make him a bad or evil guy? Of course not, but it does make him an addict...the kind of car he drives I really think is in no way relevant to that fact. its all goes back to the tree falling in the woods..just cause you dont hear it..it still exists Yet you seem to fail to see the flipside to your own argument. Even if your example were valid, it is still just one example, not the rule. I have known and still know more than my fair share of people with addictions. Many are friends of mine and this doesn't make them complete scumbags nor does it make them awesome people...but it does make them what they are and that is addicts. That may not be all that they are, but it doesn't change the facts. Edited December 20, 2004 by Skrappy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piles Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) I'm totally with Skrappy1 on this. With all due respect Brentastic I can't see how you can possibly compare cocaine with alcohol. I spent 6 years in college studying the effects of drugs and there is no way you can compare the two. Alcohol in moderation actually is beneficial to the body. Cocaine in moderation (outside of its anesthetic properties) is deadly. If the same amount of people who drank also did cocaine we wouldn't have enough space to bury them all. Comparing cocaine to alcohol is like comparing a cobra bite to a bee sting. It takes a lot of one to kill but it only takes a drop of the other and it's over. Also, back to the point of Ricky. I don't see how you can justify this guy's actions at all. He QUIT w/o any notice whatsoever. What would happen if you just gave a week's notice at your job. Would be people be upset? My guess is yes. Someone also brought up the great point of the money he was given to perform. If he doesn't pay it back he is stealing. What he wants to do with his life is fine but his actions have had negative impacts on a lot of people. I feel bad for this guy but he does have serioius problems that he needs help with. If he pays the money back to Miami and cleans up his act (i.e. is a good father to his children, gets off of drugs, and has an overall positive impact on society) then I perhaps will change my opinion of him. Right now, I feel that he is very ignorant and completely irresponsible. I can't see how anyone can justify his actions or defend him. Just my 2 cents... Edited December 20, 2004 by Piles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Skrappy..my point is..most people that are coke addicts..sleep very little..and coke can be very hard on the pockets( there are ways around it of course,selling enough to use for free).Id think if someone were truely addicted, theyd have a difficult time paying a mortgage and a car note on a car that isnt very cheap.To me an addict is someone who cant carry on a normal daily routine or make money. someone who cant control and urge. "Yet you seem to fail to see the flipside to your own argument. Even if your example were valid, it is still just one example, not the rule. " my argument..was in response to yours " Even if we concede that there may be a few individuals who can truly use cocaine recreationally only, they would absolutely be the exceptions. In contrast, a great many can drink socially and never come close to being an alcoholic. On a relative basis, there is no question which is more addictive" You are the one who is failing to admit that some can use cocaine recreationally. You are saying they are exceptions, absolutely.How can you be so sure that they are just exceptions. Just as easily as someone can drink socially, someone can use coke recreationally.Just as easy as someone can be an alchy..someone can be a cokehead..it works both ways for everything that can be addictive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Just as easily as someone can drink socially, someone can use coke recreationally. 622958[/snapback] In my experience, it's impossible to use either Josh Gordon or cocaine without getting "stoned" or its equivalent, whereas you can (and many people do) have a couple drinks and still be sober. I'm not arguing for legally mandated sobriety by any stretch, but this still strikes me as a pretty important distinction between alcohol and the other recreational drugs being discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Did anyone else want to punch him when he said "Sugar." ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunther Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Notice that he only said that he supports them "financially." And he won't even be able to do that after he has to give Miami the $8 million back. Do you think that Ricky even makes an effort to RAISE his children? Probably not, given that he's spent most of the past six months living in a tent in Australia and attending Hippie Wacko School in California. I'm sorry, but I have a serious problem with a guy who fathers THREE kids out of wedlock and doesn't even participate in their upbringing. I have no problem with Ricky's decision to leave the NFL (although his timing was unfair to his employer and teammates), but it's obvious to me that he's an irresponsible, spoiled little boy. I hope that he goes bankrupt after the Dolphins take back their money and he's forced to work a 9-to-5 job like the rest of us. That'll teach him responsibility. 621922[/snapback] I agree with that, Bill. Rovers also makes a good point about Ricky's mental illness in regards to his ability to make rational decisions. I think he will learn, the hard way, how his decision will ultimately impact his life. Unfortunately, with his mental illness in tow, I have a feeling that he may not be able to figure this out in time. Where is Ricky's family in all this? Maybe they have publicly stated their feelings on the matter. Or maybe they've said it's his (Ricky's) life, he can do what he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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