Lurie interview

[Swampnuts]

Swiss- The problem most people (fans) have is that they want players to be honorable towards their contracts, and they want them to show up and play.

 

If T.O. didn't think the contract was fair, then he shouldn't have signed it. I'm sure Lurie would have offered him a one year deal last year, but not a one year deal with a 9 mil bonus! TO took that cash with no intention of honoring his deal.

 

I agree these guys should go for as much as they can get, but that's what free agency is for! Once you sign the deal, you should honor the deal.

[Chargerz]

With the momentum that "renegotiating" contracts has taken lately, some owner had better stand fast and not cater or the floodgates will burst every year with this stuff. I think there's a handful of cases where agents get away with too big of deals and that only serves then as a baseline for the future.

 

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I agree with this if a player like T.O. is already making primo coin. Where I LIKE to see contracts renegotiated is in a case like Antonio Gates who is getting paid very little compared to his worth and who is coming to all the camps with the rest of the team while negotiations are ongoing. Sure, you could say he has only had one good season, but when a good guy like Gates is involved, I would love to see him get a contract proportionate to his contribution to the team.

[Duchess Jack]

Well, T.O. performed his ASS off last year. He did more than Lurie could have ever dreamed, especially in the game that counts most. As a gesture of good faith, Lurie should have re-done T.O.'s contract without a word from Owens or his agent.

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TO performed like TO.

 

TO had Garcia throwing to him in San Fran, he now has McNabb. I would expect an upgrade in his stats.

 

Also - so what, if he played in the Superbowl. It was a brilliant performance and all, but so what. If you can play, you play - that's what you are paid for. And seeing how well he did - showed me that he could play. Personally I think that TO did that for TO, not for the Eagles. Whatever though - he went out there and played like we know he is capable of.

[Jimmy Neutron]

  Personally I think that TO did that for TO, not for the Eagles. 

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You caught that too, huh?

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Swiss, how can you say Owens got a crappy offer.  He made over $9M last year.  If the Eagles were so worried about his health or character why would they have given him so much up front?

 

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Yes, he made $9 mil last year. So what? Do you understand "market value"? If not, Google "Randy Moss contract" or "Marvin Harrison contract" or "Torry Holt contract". Hell, even Chad Johnson got more guaranteed money -- in the middle of the 2003 season. The Eagles didn't give him "so much" up front. They took advantage of a guy who was in a tough situation, by giving him about $5 million less than fair market value. PLUS, as I said before, the money in year 2 was total crap.

 

Fact is that the Eagles and the NFLPA both went over the contract with Owens made sure he was aware of the situation according to numerous radio reports. 

 

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Yes, you're right, the NFLPA did go over T.O.'s contract. And, they agreed with me -- the contract was lame. They advised T.O. not to sign the deal, partly because it wasn't fair value and partly because they felt the arbitrator would rule him a free agent. If you read my prior post, I never said T.O. was free of blame. He HAS made a few mistakes in this situation, one of which was signing that contract. However, his agent was desperate and reeling and T.O. was just glad to be finished with the entire dispute. Also, like I said before, T.O. didn't have as much leverage last year, even aside from his free-agency debacle; he was coming off an injury and he knew he had character questions to answer. I don't really need to answer this argument, since I said I understand Lurie's position last year.

 

Hockey let salaries get too high and look what happened.  If the Eagles cave, then it will create a domino effect, not just for the Eagles but the whole NFL.

 

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This is ridiculous. The NHL and NFL could NOT be less similar. T.O. isn't trying to set a precedent anyway. His fair salary has already been set by the Vikings (Moss), Colts (Harrison), Rams (Holt), and Bengals (Johnson). To put this in a broader perspective, OTHER SPORTS LEAGUES have also set a precedent by paying their superstar players over $25 million a year -- GUARANTEED. Everybody in the NFL is underpaid, but that will change in a couple years, when the salary cap increases by a huge amount. The NFL makes so much money, it could buy Mars and move there. The players make a tiny fraction of the profit percentage, especially compared to the NBA and MLB.

 

I believe if Owens/Rosenhaus didn't blast the contract all over the television & radio the Eagles may have done something for Owens.  Rosenhaus goes on all these TV shows and takes the whole thing public thinking the fans would side with Owens.  Obviuosly he made a huge mistake. 

 

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Think about this, bro -- how did you know T.O. wanted a new contract? Because he scheduled a press conference and told everybody? No. Because his agent went on TV and told everybody? No. Owens made a personal decision to hire a new agent and REPORTERS found out about it. Then, the other pieces of the puzzle came together and it became clear T.O. wanted to talk about a new deal. THEN, criticism started and it's been gaining momentum ever since. It wasn't until everybody was against T.O. that he started talking about the situation publicly. I'm sorry, but it's not T.O.'s fault that everything NFL players do automatically enters the court of public opinion. However, it's pretty obvious that T.O. shouldn't have called out McNabb for getting "tired" in the SuperBowl. That was his other mistake.

 

Those are the facts. I'm not telling you anything you can't verify. Those of you who are applauding Lurie are looking at the situation with very little critical reasoning. "Player want more money! Player make more than me! Me hate player! Me like righteous owner!" The situation is much more complicated than any of us realize, but the one thing people FAIL to realize is that Lurie is one of the richest men in the country and he's not even willing to pay one of his best players on par with his peers.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Uh, dude, ever hear of a salary cap?  Eagles have been one of the best at managing the cap over the past several years and it shows in their success as a team.  Paying TO whatever he wants after he has already agreed to a very fair contract one year prior would be idiotic.  Who's the moron?

 

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Is this worthy of a response? Uh, I guess.

 

Yes, I've heard of a salary cap. As I mentioned in the post above, you Lurie apologists shouldn't be pissed off at Owens and Rosenhaus. Be pissed at the teams who set the market value for WRs on T.O.'s level. Last year, Owens made between $3 million (C. Johnson) and $14 million (M. Harrison) LESS than other receivers have made in their first years of new deals.

 

Ah HA! So THAT'S how you manage the salary cap! Pay all your players less than they're worth! Brilliant! Hey, moron -- in case you haven't noticed, Lurie's Scrooge-like tendencies are starting to bite the Eagles in the ass. Key players are unhappy. It started with Trotter, Douglas, and Staley, and now it's filtering down to players who are in their PRIMES, like Westbrook, Simon, and T.O. How long do you think Philly's "Master Salary Cap Plan" is going to work?

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Swiss- The problem most people (fans) have is that they want players to be honorable towards their contracts, and they want them to show up and play.

 

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Yes, but they don't hold owners to the same standard. That's my whole point. In fact, Rosenhaus has been saying recently that he and Owens WILL honor the current contract -- in its ENTIRETY. Of course, the Eagles refuse to make the same commitment. They want the freedom to release Owens at their will. That disparity illustrates the problem wonderfully. Sure, I agree some players are greedy f*ckers, but the only people greedier are OWNERS. Whose side am I on? The FANS'. NFL owners, especially, are the worst. They charge the most for tickets, pay their players the least, release them when they inevitably get hurt, AND make the most profit! Why are people cheering for Lurie??

 

If T.O. didn't think the contract was fair, then he shouldn't have signed it. I'm sure Lurie would have offered him a one year deal last year, but not a one year deal with a 9 mil bonus! TO took that cash with no intention of honoring his deal.

 

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I agree with the first part -- T.O. shouldn't have taken that contract. He should have waited for the arbitrator's decision, which probably would have made him an UFA. However, it just goes to show how shrewd and calculating Lurie is. He wanted T.O. and would have probably acquired him regardless. However, I'm sure he realized that if Owens became a true free agent, his price tag would have been around $16 million. So, he swoops in BEFORE the arbitrator makes his decision, while Owens is still sweating the possibility of Boller throwing to him, and gives Owens AND HIS AGENT an "easy out". Meanwhile, Lurie saves about $7 million.

 

However, I don't know if T.O. had "no intention" to honor the deal. I can only guess what types of discussions took place between Reid, Banner, Lurie and T.O., but I'd assume that T.O. knew he had something to prove in the first year. Obviously, if he had problems learning the playbook or got injured or didn't click with McNabb, then how could he ask for a renegotiation? He couldn't. Instead, T.O. had a GREAT season and an AMAZING SuperBowl, so, in his mind, he proved how valuable he can be. Only now does T.O. have any reason to feel underpaid.

 

I agree these guys should go for as much as they can get, but that's what free agency is for! Once you sign the deal, you should honor the deal.

 

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Just plain wrong. If player contracts were based more on incentives, you'd be right. However, as it stands, how often do players perform EXACTLY equal to the contract they signed? Not very often. I hate the argument "When a player has a bad year, I don't hear him asking to give money back!" That's just stupid. A player would never get the opportunity to do that -- the TEAM takes care of that for them. The ONLY reason a team keeps a player on the roster is because the GM/Owner feels that player is WORTH what he's being paid. If the team doesn't feel that way, they either ask the player to restructure his deal for less money or they cut the player.

 

So, the TEAM has an option for a player UNDERperforming their contract. What options to PLAYERS have when they OVERperform their contract? Uhh...none, other than holding out. Some players are patient enough to just wait for the team to do the right thing, but, to me, that's kind of foolish. These guys have short careers, so waiting even ONE year to get paid what they deserve could make a huge difference in their post-NFL life.

Edited June 10, 2005 by Swiss Cheezhead

[Swiss Cheezhead]

TO performed like TO. 

 

TO had Garcia throwing to him in San Fran, he now has McNabb.  I would expect an upgrade in his stats. 

 

Also - so what, if he played in the Superbowl.  It was a brilliant performance and all, but so what.  If you can play, you play - that's what you are paid for.  And seeing how well he did - showed me that he could play.  Personally I think that TO did that for TO, not for the Eagles.  Whatever though - he went out there and played like we know he is capable of.

 

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This is pretty ignorant. Garcia had better numbers than McNabb when T.O. switched teams. In fact, a lot of people questioned whether T.O.'s production would dip, since McNabb was a historically inaccurate QB. I don't know who made who good, but I do know this -- T.O. had similar seasons to 2004 BEFORE McNabb was throwing him the ball. McNabb didn't have anything near his 2004 season BEFORE he was throwing to T.O.

 

As for your 2nd paragraph, you're just wrong. Players are paid to play when they're medically cleared to play. Owens didn't have to play; he chose to play. In fact, many players would have given up on their rehab a month before the SuperBowl, simply because the injury wasn't even CLOSE to healed. And how can you say he did it for himself? That's absolutely asinine. Owens could have seriously screwed up his ankle and jeopardized his career. Yeah...that's really selfish. If you don't understand how competitive T.O. is, how badly he wants to win, then you haven't been paying attention.

[Bill Swerski]

Yes, he made $9 mil last year. So what? Do you understand "market value"? If not, Google "Randy Moss contract" or "Marvin Harrison contract" or "Torry Holt contract". Hell, even Chad Johnson got more guaranteed money -- in the middle of the 2003 season. The Eagles didn't give him "so much" up front. They took advantage of a guy who was in a tough situation, by giving him about $5 million less than fair market value. PLUS, as I said before, the money in year 2 was total crap.

Yes, you're right, the NFLPA did go over T.O.'s contract. And, they agreed with me -- the contract was lame. They advised T.O. not to sign the deal, partly because it wasn't fair value and partly because they felt the arbitrator would rule him a free agent.

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T.O. has less market value than Harrison, Holt, and Chad Johnson because he's a drama queen pain in the ass who bad-mouths his own teammates. And he put himself in that position last year. The Eagles didn't "take advantage" of him... he WANTED to go to Philly and threw a childish hissy-fit after being traded to Baltimore to ensure that would happen. He probably could've negotiated a better contract with the Ravens, but that wasn't important to him. Playing with McNabb and being on a contending team was. But now playing with McNabb and the defending NFC champs isn't. Money is.

 

I can't believe you're defending this clown.

 

T.O. has the right to do whatever he wants. Similarly, Lurie has the right to tell T.O. to go (the really bad word) himself. And I hope he does.

Edited June 10, 2005 by Bill Swerski

[Hugh-mongus]

T.O. has less market value than Harrison, Holt, and Chad Johnson because he's a drama queen pain in the ass who bad-mouths his own teammates.  And he put himself in that position last year.  The Eagles didn't "take advantage" of him... he WANTED to go to Philly and threw a childish hissy-fit after being traded to Baltimore to ensure that would happen.  He probably could've negotiated a better contract with the Ravens, but that wasn't important to him.  Playing with McNabb and being on a contending team was.  But now playing with McNabb and the defending NFC champs isn't.  Money is. 

 

I can't believe you're defending this clown.

 

T.O. has the right to do whatever he wants.  Similarly, Lurie has the right to tell T.O. to go (the really bad word) himself.  And I hope he does.

 

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Well said.

[NSab]

Clipped from: Philadelphia Inquirer article by Bob Brookover, 6/9/05

 

Agent Drew Rosenhaus put the odds at 50-50 last night that Eagles wide

receiver Terrell Owens would join his teammates at training camp Aug.

1, when veterans are expected to report.

 

"I'm saying this based on the fact that I have confidence in the

Philadelphia Eagles organization that they are going to work with me

in a capacity that will be satisfactory," Rosenhaus said during an

interview with Washington Post columnists Michael Wilbon and Tony

Kornheiser on ESPN's Pardon The Interruption.

 

Rosenhaus' qualifier: "If they don't, then I wouldn't be very

optimistic about him being there."

 

In response, Eagles president Joe Banner neither blinked nor budged on

the team's stance.

 

"There's nothing for us to really do," Banner said. "There's nothing

to figure out. You can write about this as often as you want, but in

the end, Terrell Owens has to decide whether he wants to play or he

doesn't want to play. Either way, we're going to be a very good team

that we believe is capable of achieving our goals. We'd rather have

him honor his contract and be here, but that's up to him."

 

The Eagles have refused to discuss the matter with Rosenhaus, who

replaced David Joseph as Owens' agent in early April and visited

Philadelphia for a brief meeting with Banner.

 

In the television interview, Rosenhaus tried to make the case that

there is nothing honorable about the seven-year deal - worth just

under $49 million - Owens signed after a sequence of bizarre events

led to a three-team trade before last season. That deal sent the star

receiver from the Baltimore Ravens to the Eagles.

 

Rosenhaus did not return phone calls last night.

[DKF]

Every year there is a pot of money set aside for players who out-played their contract. These players are probably justified in seeking a new contract.

 

How much money did T.O. receive for outplaying his contract?

 

[Swiss Cheezhead]

T.O. has less market value than Harrison, Holt, and Chad Johnson because he's a drama queen pain in the ass who bad-mouths his own teammates.  And he put himself in that position last year.  The Eagles didn't "take advantage" of him... he WANTED to go to Philly and threw a childish hissy-fit after being traded to Baltimore to ensure that would happen.  He probably could've negotiated a better contract with the Ravens, but that wasn't important to him.  Playing with McNabb and being on a contending team was.  But now playing with McNabb and the defending NFC champs isn't.  Money is. 

 

I can't believe you're defending this clown.

 

T.O. has the right to do whatever he wants.  Similarly, Lurie has the right to tell T.O. to go (the really bad word) himself.  And I hope he does.

 

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I'm not sure if you even made a fresh point somewhere in the rant above.

 

First of all, I like how you left out Randy Moss, because he didn't quite fit your argument . Anyway, you're saying T.O. had less market value than Harrison, Holt, and Johnson last year? Uh, I already said that. I don't think he was worth $14 million less than Harrison, but it's irrelevant -- I've said repeatedly that the character concerns Owens brought to the table made him less valuable. I've also said that he shouldn't have signed the contract last year.

 

The issue at hand is how T.O. is being lambasted for wanting an improved contract, AFTER he played his ass off last year. Nothing you've said, or COULD say, will sensically assert that he's only worth $3 million in 2005. It's as simple as that.

Edited June 10, 2005 by Swiss Cheezhead

[Bill Swerski]

I'm not sure if you even made a fresh point somewhere in the rant above.

 

First of all, I like how you left out Randy Moss, because he didn't quite fit your argument . Anyway, you're saying T.O. had less market value than Harrison, Holt, and Johnson last year? Uh, I already said that. I don't think he was worth $14 million less than Harrison, but it's irrelevant -- I've said repeatedly that the character concerns Owens brought to the table made him less valuable. I've also said that he shouldn't have signed the contract last year.

 

The issue at hand is how T.O. is being lambasted for wanting an improved contract, AFTER he played his ass off last year. Nothing you've said, or COULD say, will sensically assert that he's only worth $3 million in 2005. It's as simple as that.

 

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Of course, you forgot that Randy Moss didn't call his former QB a homosexual or try to get the NFL to overturn a trade that he didn't like. Oh, and Moss is a better WR on top of it. Please forgive me for leaving out those points.

 

If T.O. wanted to renegotiate this season's deal, he should've signed a one-year deal last year. But he didn't. He agreed to $3 million for '05 (on top of his signing bonus, which was paid in full last year) for salary cap reasons. Because last year, it wasn't about the money... it was about playing with Don, being on a SB-caliber team, and having a cap-friendly salary. But this year, T.O. couldn't care less about freeing up cap space to keep his team competitive and has already ripped his QB... again (I'm surprised he didn't accuse Don of being gay as well).

 

Your support of this selfish, childish man is puzzling, to say the least.

[ebartender]

Swiss,

What about the fact the TO was already under contract when the Eagles traded for him. The Eagles already re-worked his contract to give him a signing bonus and now one year later he wants to renegotiate again for more? Lets say the Eagles redo the contract to give him more money this season, what about next season? Is he going to want the renegotiate each year just to keep up with the top salary at his position?

 

Fact of the matter is that TO has NO leverage. He is signed for 6 more years. If he wants to sit so be it.

 

I just don't understand how TO can expect the Eagles to re-work a contract two years in a row. Maybe they should just pay him $20M a year so they won't have to worry about this crap every year.