NFL refs on the pad now?

[Bronco Billy]

Watched the GB/WAS game and couldn't help but notice some extremely obvious blunders by refs that kept the game close and eventually had it land at or near the posted line of GB -3/-3.5 depending upon where you got it.

 

Favre hits a wide open James Jones in the end zone. TD! Nope - holding on the ROT, but when reply was shown, the O-lineman was shown to have his hands within the limits of the shoulder pads of the DE and did not have hold of the jersey, and also that in fact the ref who threw the flag was predominantly shielded from the action between the two by the DE's body.

 

Favre throws a long pass down the sideline incomplete, but a flag is thrown for interference. Replay shows tha CB throwing an armbar out in the open before the ball arrives, which is defined by the NFL as intereference regardless of whether the DB is looking for the ball or not. Wait! Upon discussion with other refs, the flag is waved off - no penalty.

 

Bubba Franks catches a ball at the back of the end zone, gets one foot down, and is blasted by the DB, knocking his 2nd foot out of bounds when without the contact Franks had plenty of room to get his 2nd foot down. TD because of the force out, right? Nope! No catch.

 

So with these 3 critical plays (as well as two missed FGs and a couple of classic Santana Moss drops) the game finishes at 17-14 rather than the 30-14 game it should have been, with the refs literally taking 2 TDs off the board from GB as well as the other long play. All 3 plays just happen to be non-reviewable, so the GB coaching staff can't do a thing about them.

 

I know there hasn't been a ref cheating scandal in the NFL, but we have seen one in the NBA, and when you take that into perspective along with such obvious ref influence into a game that would have been a run away by GB had the game been called properly, it just can't help but creep into one's mind that the refs have motivations other than a fair game between the two teams. Normally I'd never post something like this, but those 3 plays were so openly & blatantly aggregious examples of refs changing the score of the game that I had to see what others who saw the game might have thought.

 

post edit - Full disclosure: I did not bet the game, and while I am a GB fan, a W is a W, and as far ar the Packers are concerned, a 3 point win is as good as a 17 point win. 5-1 is still 5-1 no matter what the margin was.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Bronco Billy

[Ramhock]

Packer Billy?

 

Makes more sense, fo sure.

[Easy n Dirty]

Favre hits a wide open James Jones in the end zone. TD! Nope - holding on the ROT, but when reply was shown, the O-lineman was shown to have his hands within the limits of the shoulder pads of the DE and did not have hold of the jersey, and also that in fact the ref who threw the flag was predominantly shielded from the action between the two by the DE's body.

 

Didn't see the game, but one reaction I had upon reading this post - on this first instance you mention, surely the flag was thrown before the play was completed, yes? So the ref who threw the flag had no idea at the time that he was wiping out a TD. May have been a bad call, but I'm having trouble seeing how this would be indicative of a "fix", which seems to be what you're suggesting.

[Bronco Billy]

Didn't see the game, but one reaction I had upon reading this post - on this first instance you mention, surely the flag was thrown before the play was completed, yes? So the ref who threw the flag had no idea at the time that he was wiping out a TD. May have been a bad call, but I'm having trouble seeing how this would be indicative of a "fix", which seems to be what you're suggesting.

 

The flag was thrown fairly late, and I'd have to say the ball was at least in the air when the ref threw the flag. I also omitted that the play immediately proceeding this play was at around the 9 yd line going in and was another holding call that replay showed no evidence of holding by the player flagged. On both replays, the announcers questioned what had happened that qualified as holding, and both times players flagged had kept their hands within the limits of the shoulder pads and there was no overt grabbing of a jersey.

 

Now that you mention the timing of the flag, it is interesting that the ref who threw the flag that directly negated the TD to Jones was shielded by the DE and couldn't really see much of the OT at all or any action of the players between them, but that his line of sight went roughly through those 2 players and beyond to Jones, who was wide open in the end zone.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Bronco Billy

[Fatman]

I don't have anything to say about fixing calls, but those were two TERRIBLE calls during the game. Not only that, KGB had hands to the face most of the day and Cullen Jenkins was literally tackled from behind and nothing was called.

 

I know you can call a penalty on virtually every play, but that was some pretty one-sided officiating yesterday. Glad we were able to win.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

I don't have anything to say about fixing calls, but those were two TERRIBLE calls during the game. Not only that, KGB had hands to the face most of the day and Cullen Jenkins was literally tackled from behind and nothing was called.

 

I know you can call a penalty on virtually every play, but that was some pretty one-sided officiating yesterday. Glad we were able to win.

 

This is sorta where I come down. With so many refs in a game crew, I'm not sure how feasible it is for them to go into a game, expecting to affect the point margin. Not impossible, but it's past that line of unlikelihood that determines whether I pull out the consipiracy card. I will say that the line of sight aspect BB brings up is a little interesting...

 

That said, that truly was one of the most horribly officiated games I can recall watching. And the fact that they were all non-reviewable made it insanely frustrating. The Franks TD was one of the most obvious push-outs I've ever seen! What the hell was that zebra smoking??

 

I suppose it all underscores my general belief that the existence of "non-reviewable calls" is GARBAGE in the current replay system. I don't give a damm if it's a "judgment call" -- what, are we worried about hurting the feelings of the guy who made the initial call? Isn't that why we have "head" referees AND expert officials in the booth upstairs? Just about EVERYTHING is a judgment call out there. Sometimes you need another look to make the right freaking judgment!!!!!!!!!

 

[alexgaddis]

[Fatman]

 

Enjoy Tarvaris.

[alexgaddis]

Enjoy Tarvaris.

I did yesterday!

[keggerz]

This is sorta where I come down. With so many refs in a game crew, I'm not sure how feasible it is for them to go into a game, expecting to affect the point margin. Not impossible, but it's past that line of unlikelihood that determines whether I pull out the consipiracy card. I will say that the line of sight aspect BB brings up is a little interesting...

 

That said, that truly was one of the most horribly officiated games I can recall watching. And the fact that they were all non-reviewable made it insanely frustrating. The Franks TD was one of the most obvious push-outs I've ever seen! What the hell was that zebra smoking??

 

I suppose it all underscores my general belief that the existence of "non-reviewable calls" is GARBAGE in the current replay system. I don't give a damm if it's a "judgment call" -- what, are we worried about hurting the feelings of the guy who made the initial call? Isn't that why we have "head" referees AND expert officials in the booth upstairs? Just about EVERYTHING is a judgment call out there. Sometimes you need another look to make the right freaking judgment!!!!!!!!!

 

i cant remember but i think it was on a TO catch on the sidelines yesterday where it was initially ruled a catch but then the review reversed it...but i think that he was forced out....it was easy enough to see yet review can just look at his feet and rule on that but not a push out....imo a push out has to be one of the hardest things for an on field official to gauge...i would think under review they would get those calls right 99.99% of the time

[Ziachild007]

i cant remember but i think it was on a TO catch on the sidelines yesterday where it was initially ruled a catch but then the review reversed it...but i think that he was forced out....it was easy enough to see yet review can just look at his feet and rule on that but not a push out....imo a push out has to be one of the hardest things for an on field official to gauge...i would think under review they would get those calls right 99.99% of the time

 

He was forced out, but the call on the field was a catch. Once they reviewd it, the catch was overturned but, you can't go back and rule a force out after the fact.

[keggerz]

He was forced out, but the call on the field was a catch. Once they reviewd it, the catch was overturned but, you can't go back and rule a force out after the fact.

right but what i am saying is that if Replay can get it right then let them....if a player was ruled to make a catch and they went to replay to make sure he was in bounds but then realize he bobbled the ball they rule that as an incompletion (and they should)....just makes no sense that you have replay in place to correct errors yet they dont allow the latitude to fix some of them

[Jackass]

i cant remember but i think it was on a TO catch on the sidelines yesterday where it was initially ruled a catch but then the review reversed it...but i think that he was forced out....it was easy enough to see yet review can just look at his feet and rule on that but not a push out....imo a push out has to be one of the hardest things for an on field official to gauge...i would think under review they would get those calls right 99.99% of the time

 

That makes too much sense.

[MikesVikes]

Can't be as bad as the Iowa State game when a receiver gets his helmet ripped after a reception when the defender grabbed his face mask. No call was made on the play. That had to be the most blatant non-call in the history of football.

[Fatman]

Can't be as bad as the Iowa State game when a receiver gets his helmet ripped after a reception when the defender grabbed his face mask. No call was made on the play. That had to be the most blatant non-call in the history of football.

 

Yeah, that was ridiculous.

[Grits and Shins]

Another example why they should NOT allow instant replay. Not all calls, even critical ones, are reviewable.

[policyvote]

Another example why they should NOT allow instant replay. Not all calls, even critical ones, are reviewable.

 

So blatantly wrong calls, than any moron can and will see replayed at home and in the stadium a dozen times, should stand? Because "not all" calls are reivewable? Ridiculous. ALL calls ARE reviewable, even judgment calls. You don't think that the head referee, at super-slow-mo speeds, and from multiple different angles, can make a better judgment call than whichever ref is closest, at whatever angle he happens to be at, at live game speed?

 

Peace

policy

[Azazello1313]

there definitely shoulda been a push-out call on the franks non-TD, i'll give you that much. and that holding call was fairly weak as well.

 

but i still think GB should just consider themselves lucky to get out of that game with a W. if those two teams played 10 times, i believe washington would win 6 or 7 of them, especially if their best offensive players were anywhere close to full speed.

[Bronco Billy]

but i still think GB should just consider themselves lucky to get out of that game with a W. if those two teams played 10 times, i believe washington would win 6 or 7 of them, especially if their best offensive players were anywhere close to full speed.

 

I have a tough time agreeing with this statement, given that GB was jobbed out of 14 pts by the refs and missed a FG (the missed FG that hit the upright was after the Franks non-pushout call). I can't fathom how you'd think that WAS could match the 34 pts GB should have put on the board in this game, and that's with Favre badly missing some wide open WRs on deep patterns & throwing INTs instead. GB's D had the WAS running game by the throat virtually all game, and despite piratesownninja's assertion, Campbell ain't all that & a bag o' chips under center.

[FishFreak]

I wrote about this happening prior to the season and definately think it's possible but unlikely. What's even more troubling is the officiating seems to be getting worse.

 

On another note it seems like OL are being given a lot of leeway to hold this year. I wouldn't be surprised if Refs were told to make less holding calls going into this season. No stats to back this up just MHO.

[Randall]

This is sorta where I come down. With so many refs in a game crew, I'm not sure how feasible it is for them to go into a game, expecting to affect the point margin. Not impossible, but it's past that line of unlikelihood that determines whether I pull out the consipiracy card. I will say that the line of sight aspect BB brings up is a little interesting...

 

That said, that truly was one of the most horribly officiated games I can recall watching. And the fact that they were all non-reviewable made it insanely frustrating. The Franks TD was one of the most obvious push-outs I've ever seen! What the hell was that zebra smoking??

 

I suppose it all underscores my general belief that the existence of "non-reviewable calls" is GARBAGE in the current replay system. I don't give a damm if it's a "judgment call" -- what, are we worried about hurting the feelings of the guy who made the initial call? Isn't that why we have "head" referees AND expert officials in the booth upstairs? Just about EVERYTHING is a judgment call out there. Sometimes you need another look to make the right freaking judgment!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

I agree. Not a fix but certainly a badly officiated game/

[Bronco Billy]

I agree. Not a fix but certainly a badly officiated game/

 

I think that was the overwhelming sentiment about NBA games prior to Donaghey fessing up.

[Grits and Shins]

So blatantly wrong calls, than any moron can and will see replayed at home and in the stadium a dozen times, should stand? Because "not all" calls are reivewable? Ridiculous. ALL calls ARE reviewable, even judgment calls. You don't think that the head referee, at super-slow-mo speeds, and from multiple different angles, can make a better judgment call than whichever ref is closest, at whatever angle he happens to be at, at live game speed?

 

Peace

policy

 

Every call is NOT reviewable. Judgement calls are not reviewable (like push outs). If you are going to review plays for the sake of making the game "better" then it should not be limited to specific plays.

 

If it was all about getting it right then there would be no limitation on the number of reviews allowed, especially if a coach has won all his reviews. So a coach wins 3 challenges in a game (or lost 2 challenges) and now in the 4th quarter with 2:12 left in the game there is a call that is blatently wrong and anybody that sees it knows it ... but he can't review it?

 

Often even when looking at the slo-mo replay a determination can not be made and it is still subjective.

 

Instant replay sucks. Human ref.s are part of the game.

[Randall]

Packer Billy?

 

Makes more sense, fo sure.

 

 

 

No it doesn't. If you've read much of what he has said he is very knowledgeable regarding Wisconsin teams and the Broncos He can call himself anything he wants as far as I'm concerned.

[Randall]

I think that was the overwhelming sentiment about NBA games prior to Donaghey fessing up.

 

 

 

Good point. I think it is harder to fix games when so many individuals are involved(VS the NBA) but I wouldn't be shocked to be proven wrong.