Manning done for the year?

[CaptainHook]

I think we have to see how this plays out. Patriots fans were pretty sure the season was over when Brady went down in Week 1. But a seventh round draft pick who didn't play in college quarterbacked them to 11 wins. Did that make the Patriots more prepared? I guess we'll have to give Curtis Painter a chance.

 

Not once in the draft have I wanted the Colts to spend a high pick on a QB. No matter who the QB is this year, if it's not Peyton Manning, the Colts are not going to win the Super Bowl. Maybe they'll be spending their top 10 pick in the draft in April on a QB.

[MrTed46]

I think we have to see how this plays out. Patriots fans were pretty sure the season was over when Brady went down in Week 1. But a seventh round draft pick who didn't play in college quarterbacked them to 11 wins. Did that make the Patriots more prepared? I guess we'll have to give Curtis Painter a chance.

 

Not once in the draft have I wanted the Colts to spend a high pick on a QB. No matter who the QB is this year, if it's not Peyton Manning, the Colts are not going to win the Super Bowl. Maybe they'll be spending their top 10 pick in the draft in April on a QB.

 

 

 

I think Belicheat led them to 11 wins more so than Matt Cassel

[Goopster24]

I think we have to see how this plays out. Patriots fans were pretty sure the season was over when Brady went down in Week 1. But a seventh round draft pick who didn't play in college quarterbacked them to 11 wins. Did that make the Patriots more prepared? I guess we'll have to give Curtis Painter a chance.

 

Not once in the draft have I wanted the Colts to spend a high pick on a QB. No matter who the QB is this year, if it's not Peyton Manning, the Colts are not going to win the Super Bowl. Maybe they'll be spending their top 10 pick in the draft in April on a QB.

 

You have said this numerous times in the past, pointing to this example, and I do not think this is fair. Cassel was in their system for 3 seasons. That's a long time to digest an offensive system like McDaniels. He was the backup to Tom Brady. You can't give them any credit for that pick/what resulted from it?

[CaptainHook]

That's a good point but let's not forget the dude retired...let's say he said no. Who then is next best option?

Carson Palmer? David Garrard? Jeff George?

[CaptainHook]

You have said this numerous times in the past, pointing to this example, and I do not think this is fair. Cassel was in their system for 3 seasons. That's a long time to digest an offensive system like McDaniels. He was the backup to Tom Brady. You can't give them any credit for that pick/what resulted from it?

Jim Sorgi and Curtis Painter also had multiple years in the Colts system? I fail to see your point?

[Goopster24]

Jim Sorgi and Curtis Painter also had multiple years in the Colts system? I fail to see your point?

 

My point is they did something right and "were prepared" to some degree. Painter has sucked and the Colts let Sorgi leave.

 

And to Jeff George. As a Bears fan, I've been through that...

[Bronco Billy]

I was just about to come in here and post a smart ass comment after all the discussion in the past week about this situation and the Collins replacement.

 

Then I realized that I may not get to see Manning play again. That really sucks.

 

 

Sorry for the Colts ' fans and for all of us who enjoying watching someone really special play the game.

[CaptainHook]

My point is they did something right and "were prepared" to some degree. Painter has sucked and the Colts let Sorgi leave.

 

And to Jeff George. As a Bears fan, I've been through that...

How is it different that the Colts spent a few years preparing Sorgi and Painter to be the back up? The Patriots spent a few years preparing Cassel. If Brady never got hurt we wouldn't even know who he is. The Colts and Pats did the exact same thing! The results may, or may not, be the same.

[Goopster24]

How is it different that the Colts spent a few years preparing Sorgi and Painter to be the back up? The Patriots spent a few years preparing Cassel. If Brady never got hurt we wouldn't even know who he is. The Colts and Pats did the exact same thing! The results may, or may not, be the same.

 

Agree we would have never known if Brady didn't get hurt...

 

But we do, so that point doesn't matter.

 

And Colts fans/NFL fans/Colts management and coaches have seen Painter enough to say he isn't the solution. When Manning DID get hurt, they bring in someone who was sitting on the couch, enjoying his retirement. So again, their "preparedness" isn't really showing.

 

That said, I think Colts win week one...

[CaptainHook]

I was just about to come in here and post a smart ass comment after all the discussion in the past week about this situation and the Collins replacement.

 

Then I realized that I may not get to see Manning play again. That really sucks.

 

 

Sorry for the Colts ' fans and for all of us who enjoying watching someone really special play the game.

It does suck. But for 13 years he was an ironman. Did it make the Colts feel he was invincible? Possibly. But for 13 years they were right.

[mrbass24]

If there as bad without Manning as everyone thinks, they should start Painter and see how he does....worst case there in the Andrew Luck area of wins at the end of the season.

[giantsfan]

Having drafted a QB in an early round sometime in the last couple years does not necessarily mean their season would be saved. See the two QB's I mentioned above. They tried to get Hasselbeck over the summer. Kerry Collins is about the kind of back-up I would expect them to have. I don't understand why some of you expect the Colts to have a Pro Bowler waiting in the wings. That just doesn't happen much anymore.

I agree 100%.

 

And Collins is not terrible. He is not good either, but he is decent. That is what you would expect a backup to be.

 

Maybe they got lucky he was there 2 weeks ago, but he was there.

 

He is a decent backup, and what I would expect a team like the Colts to have behind a player like Peyton.

 

 

Saw this quote today:

 

Collins did have nine touchdown passes in the final four weeks of last season, tied for best in the league. He's not done, even if it was his intention to be officially done (retire).

 

 

Again, decent backup QB. I really think people are going way over the top on Collins. Acting like he is awful and some scrub. This is a professional QB. He has won before. Been in the SB. Led team to best record 3 years ago. Had the stats I mentioned above just last season. They have a real nice schedule this season, and good weapons.

 

I think they can still win 6 games or so and it won't be a total disaster.

Edited September 7, 2011 by giantsfan

[Bronco Billy]

How is it different that the Colts spent a few years preparing Sorgi and Painter to be the back up? The Patriots spent a few years preparing Cassel. If Brady never got hurt we wouldn't even know who he is. The Colts and Pats did the exact same thing! The results may, or may not, be the same.

 

Please stop comparing NE when Brady went down and Cassel came in to Manning's IND. Geez, I thought you were a fan of the Colts.

 

NE is a system, and system QBs work very well in it. It's the old SF read & react game, with receivers going out in multiples, crossing, and then the QB reading the D and throwing where they ain't by reading the alignment of the D.

 

IND on the other hand had Manning running hurry-up, or at the least playcalling at the line, a lot of the time - catching Ds off guard, diagnosing the D as he approached the LoS, and getting a play off quickly before the D could react.

 

The two systems are completely different. That's no knock on Brady - he has a system that fits his skill set like a glove and he is outstanding at reading the D as the play progresses. But Manning is a whole different animal. He is actually doing the pre-play diagnosing and the coaching while on the field.

 

If people here are expecting the IND O to function as anything other than a shadow of itself with a broken down old warhorse like Collins at QB, given how much the rest of the team depends on Manning applying pressure to the opponent, they're a bonafide loon. Manning's ability to pick apart Ds opens up what running game there is - and it ain't much despite Manning's ability to surgically mutilate Ds. The IND D gets to play from ahead a lot and other teams always feel pressure of having to keep up with Manning's O. Other teams need to throw more and don't get to take advantage of their very real weaknesses, like DEs who are light and aren't very good run stoppers, for example.

 

All that is out the window now. The running game is going to look even worse, the passing game won't put up anything better than mediocre numbers - and that's if they're lucky, and the D is going to get flat out exposed.

 

IND might be the leader at the gate right now for the Luck sweepstakes. At least SEA has some solid D credibility. I don't mean to dance on your graves, Colts' guys, but geez, some of you need a heavy dose of reality.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[CaptainHook]

There is no QB the Colts could have drafted that would be able to run the Colts offense, no matter how long they had to groom him. Peyton is a once in a generation talent. He is not easily replaced.

[detlef]

Please stop comparing NE when Brady went down and Cassel came in to Manning's IND. Geez, I thought you were a fan of the Colts.

 

NE is a system, and system QBs work very well in it. It's the old SF read & react game, with receivers going out in multiples, crossing, and then the QB reading the D and throwing where they ain't by reading the alignment of the D.

 

IND on the other hand had Manning running hurry-up, or at the least playcalling at the line, a lot of the time - catching Ds off guard, diagnosing the D as he approached the LoS, and getting a play off quickly before the D could react.

 

The two systems are completely different. That's no knock on Brady - he has a system that fits his skill set like a glove and he is outstanding at reading the D as the play progresses. But Manning is a whole different animal. He is actually doing the pre-play diagnosing and the coaching while on the field.

 

If people here are expecting the IND O to function as anything other than a shadow of itself with a broken down old warhorse like Collins at QB, given how much the rest of the team depends on Manning applying pressure to the opponent, they're a bonafide loon. Manning's ability to pick apart Ds opens up what running game there is - and it ain't much despite Manning's ability to surgically mutilate Ds. The IND D gets to play from ahead a lot and other teams always feel pressure of having to keep up with Manning's O. Other teams need to throw more and don't get to take advantage of their very real weaknesses, like DEs who are light and aren't very good run stoppers, for example.

 

All that is out the window now. The running game is going to look even worse, the passing game won't put up anything better than mediocre numbers - and that's if they're lucky, and the D is going to get flat out exposed.

 

IND might be the leader at the gate right now for the Luck sweepstakes. At least SEA has some solid D credibility. I don't mean to dance on your graves, Colts' guys, but geez, some of you need a heavy dose of reality.

I agree with all of this, but it cuts both ways. People also can't point to the fact that NE had the foresight to draft Cassel while Indy was merely trying to grab random dudes in the late rounds.

 

Your point about the difference between the systems is spot on and precisely why NE could get away with grabbing some late round chump and Indy couldn't.

 

Mind you, speaking of that, how exactly could they address the eventual issue? If in fact, it is all about Manning running the show.

 

In general, I agree with those who argue that Indy really had no choice but to wait for the end and deal with it then. They had too many other needs each year to waste a high pick on a QB and, as has been mentioned, what QB worth a crap wanted to come to them via FA?

 

People point to the foresight GB showed in drafting Favre's replacement. Thing is, I also remember plenty of people jumping all over Thompson during that short stretch where GB struggled. Pissed that he pushed Favre out of town and calling for his head. Sure, it worked out great and I completely agree with his approach, but it's not like everything was hunky dory all along as a result of drafting a 1st round QB to have him ready when Favre was done. Favre, who was actually more replaceable than Manning given the fact that they actually had to delay installing the offense they wanted to until they could get him to move on.

[Bronco Billy]

There is no QB the Colts could have drafted that would be able to run the Colts offense, no matter how long they had to groom him. Peyton is a once in a generation talent. He is not easily replaced.

 

I'd go so far to say that there hasn't been a QB in the past 40 years or more who can do what Manning does. There probably hasn't been a QB that has the combination of his football acumen knitted to such a superb throwing arm and accuracy in the history of the NFL. Starr used to do what Manning does, but obviously couldn't compete with Manning's strength.

 

Now a 38 yr old Collins is going to even remotely fill those shoes? Really?

Edited September 7, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[Goopster24]

I'd go so far to say that there hasn't been a QB in the past 40 years or more who can do what Manning does. There probably hasn't been a QB that has the combination of his football acumen knitted to such a superb throwing arm and accuracy in the history of the NFL. Starr used to do what Manning does, but obviously couldn't compete with Manning's strength.

 

Now a 38 yr old Collins is going to even remotely fill those shoes? Really?

 

Agree. Valid points about being able to "replace" what Peyton does. True about NE system, but I still think waiting several weeks before season started to sign Collins (out of retirement) isn't a great sign.

 

Lockout for sure hurt this entire process, let's not forget.

[detlef]

I'd go so far to say that there hasn't been a QB in the past 40 years or more who can do what Manning does. There probably hasn't been a QB that has the combination of his football acumen knitted to such a superb throwing arm and accuracy in the history of the NFL. Starr used to do what Manning does, but obviously couldn't compete with Manning's strength.

 

Now a 38 yr old Collins is going to even remotely fill those shoes? Really?

You keep bringing this up. Who is saying that Collins is going to come in and do great? There are those of us who feel that Wayne and Clark should still put up good numbers because they're probably going to get a ton of looks, but who is saying Indy is going to be fine with Collins?

[CaptainHook]

I'd go so far to say that there hasn't been a QB in the past 40 years or more who can do what Manning does. There probably hasn't been a QB that has the combination of his football acumen knitted to such a superb throwing arm and accuracy in the history of the NFL. Starr used to do what Manning does, but obviously couldn't compete with Manning's strength.

 

Now a 38 yr old Collins is going to even remotely fill those shoes? Really?

I would say Jim Kelly was pretty close to Manning.

 

Who thinks Collins will fill his shoes? He will step in. The Colts will struggle. It will be a lost season.

[Caveman_Nick]

I'd go so far to say that there hasn't been a QB in the past 40 years or more who can do what Manning does. There probably hasn't been a QB that has the combination of his football acumen knitted to such a superb throwing arm and accuracy in the history of the NFL. Starr used to do what Manning does, but obviously couldn't compete with Manning's strength.

 

Now a 38 yr old Collins is going to even remotely fill those shoes? Really?

 

I think there might be a few, but what he does is very impressive. If he hangs them up it will make me sad. Very fun to watch Peyton play.

 

I think Brady, Kelly, Young could run that offense.

[Henry Muto]

Carson Palmer to Indy...now that would be something.

[CaptainHook]

I think there might be a few, but what he does is very impressive. If he hangs them up it will make me sad. Very fun to watch Peyton play.

 

I think Brady, Kelly, Young could run that offense.

I don't think Brady could. He's a system QB.

 

Edited September 7, 2011 by CaptainHook

[Goopster24]

How the heck would Palmer end up in Indy? Would Brown drive him to Lucas Oil? That'd be crazzzzzy if Palmer finds a way to grab the QB spot in Indy, wow.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Goopster24

[Caveman_Nick]

I don't think Brady could. He's a system QB.

 

 

 

[Bronco Billy]

I don't think Brady could. He's a system QB.

 

 

Brady is a system QB. That's no knock on him. So was Montana. They were (are) absolutely the best at reading the way Ds aligned and which receiver the D would be forced to leave a with a larger window, and then they both put the ball in great spots where their guys could (can) rack up hugh yards afterwards.

 

There's no denegrating Brady by putting him in that category. He may be a system QB, but he's also one of the top system QBs in NFL history. He's still reading Ds and making the proper changes at the line - and he does that as well as anyone right now.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Bronco Billy