Does the high amount of points a D/ST can get bother anyone?

[Goopster24]

I've seen several defenses score near 30 points in my league. Many of these were weekly pickups and fluke starts; one could argue they spot started them due to the matchup. Still, defenses are drafted at the end of drafts. It bothers me that many times teams can win by making a change to this position on a weekly basis. Does this bother anyone else?

[MrTed46]

I've seen several defenses score near 30 points in my league. Many of these were weekly pickups and fluke starts; one could argue they spot started them due to the matchup. Still, defenses are drafted at the end of drafts. It bothers me that many times teams can win by making a change to this position on a weekly basis. Does this bother anyone else?

 

No, part of the game. I get bothered by people who draft a def and ignore that position all season then get mad when they lose..not saying that's you I am talking about my league. I often waste $ or high waiver priority to pick the right defense.

 

I also hate when people complain about kickers (Janikowski). If a kicker plays out of his mind he should win you that game.

 

Its equivalent to picking up Antonio Brown for a 1 week play and he goes off, does this bother you? Waivers are a crtiical part of FF.

[Cunning Runt]

You're describing me and this is exactly what I do. Played the Browns last week vs. Seattle. Played Bengals this week vs. Seattle.

 

Played the Bucs vs. Colts this year, the Bils vs. I forget - Browns maybe.

 

So no, it doesn ot bother me. I actually enjoy having that kind of flexibility. I think it allows stronger fantasy players to gain a little bit of an edge.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Cunning Runt

[Patriots]

This is why I draft my Defense and Kicker in the last two rounds of the draft. I do not want to be married to my Defense in August

[Goopster24]

I definitely understand it's part of the game. Don't want to come off whining. I play matchups too, like any position. But the high number of points D/ST can get often make a HUGE difference. I wonder if different leagues have "lower" scoring for D/ST than normal/majority of leagues.

[MnLefty]

I don't get it... it bothers you that somebody can identify a potential strong matchup and score a bunch of points because of it.

 

It must have really bothered you too then to see somebody pick up Demarco Murray and score a bunch of points because they thought he had a nice matchup against the Rams last week.

 

If you don't want defenses and their matchups to play a role in scoring then find a league that doesn't use a defense. Now if a big defensive performance can outscore an equally big performance from another position by say 1.5 or 2x, then maybe scoring needs to be adjusted. In my league Detroit scored 27 yesterday... 27 is a very good day by other spots, but there were a bunch of guys who scored more... Peterson, SJax, Rice, Stafford, Newton, etc... Nothing wrong with having a big D score that falls right in line with a big day from other spots, and more power to the owner(s) who can identify that potential from a D and capitalize on it.

 

Safe to speculate you might have been beat by the Lions or Bills yesterday?

[Goopster24]

No, did not get beat by Bills or Lions.

 

Murray was drafted in my league, keeper league.

 

That's my issue, that D's can score top points with top players. I think for a position that is thought of as an "afterthought" (drafted last, changed frequently) it's frustrating to see that be the difference.

 

I understand it's "part of the game" and if it's making the difference then I shouldn't view it as an afterthought; I do not and attempt to do the same as many people here and in my leauge; play matchups. Still can be frustrating though and I think scoring should be different for defenses.

 

I know this is a no win argument but I just wanted to see if others feel the same way OR are in leagues that do vastly different scoring for defenses.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Goopster24

[Chief]

D';s can get us 20 or cost us 20, and some are usually going by the 6th rd. I'd rather the D be just as good as any other position and not an after thought, puts more strategy, risk/reward into the game. Either way, you had the chnace to grab a top D at any point, if they didn't count for anyhting, why have em?

[DanTheMan_5]

That's why I started the Rams DST this week, I knew they'd destroy New Orleans.

 

Ok, that's a lie.

 

I am going to lose this week because my opponent was "forced" (in his words) to start the Lions DST because the Packers were on bye.

 

Normally that wouldn't bother me as I have a strong team, except My starting QB is A Rodgers and I also own Jennings

 

 

But to answer your question, no it doesn't bother me. Part of the game!

[MnLefty]

I guess I just see it differently. If you want the D's to be an "afterthought", or not be able to make a difference, then why have them at all.

 

In my league there is only one D with an average of 10.0 points per game, the Jets. Average D score is more like 7/game. There have been 5 20+ games from D's all season. When a D puts up an effort that much higher than average it definitely should impact the game. On the other side of that coin 20+ from any other position happens probably at least 10-15 times a week if not more.

 

How is a big game like that from a D any different than if somebody identified and played Torrey Smith out of nowhere when he had his 3 TD week, or back in the day guessing right on the week Lee Evans would go for 170 and 3 TD's... both of those players were "afterthoughts", drafted late, but they made a difference.

[stevegrab]

I definitely understand it's part of the game. Don't want to come off whining. I play matchups too, like any position. But the high number of points D/ST can get often make a HUGE difference. I wonder if different leagues have "lower" scoring for D/ST than normal/majority of leagues.

 

 

I'm sure some do, for example we do not use ST only D. It would take a couple of Def TD for a D to score 30 points in our league or a ton of sacks and turnovers. We do 1 point/sack, 1pt/TO, 2pt/safety and max of 4 points based on pts allowed. Since def TDs are pretty rare, the scores aren't normally that high. For example, Ravens in week 4 vs Jets scored 26 points with 3 Def TDs and Lions scored 24 yesterday with 2 TDs.

 

But we also charge $2 per roster move ($100 entry fee) so owners are not normally picking up the D with a great matchup every week.

 

While D may not be a top draft selection, they are often picked long before last in our league as people look to get an advantage with a good one all season. Kickers, now they are more of an after thought and are more often picked very late.

[GMoney Cricket]

At some point in every season ADP needs to be thrown out the window. This goes for every position. It doesn't matter where or when you pick up a player. Some D/ST are coming off the board in the 6th/7th round based on the belief that they will support that ADP. Additionally, some RBs come off in the 1st round produce like a player that should be on the WW (CJ2K). This is probably bothersome to the person that drafted the 1st round flop.

 

Lastly, I am sure that whoever drafted Fred Jackson in the 6th round was some kind of statistical savant that saw the destruction brewing in FJ's loins! Perhaps everyone just forgot that Fred Jackson was available in the 1st round.

It's why we play the game- Luck is a component.

 

Hate the player, not the game......

[DanTheMan_5]

At some point in every season ADP needs to be thrown out the window. This goes for every position. It doesn't matter where or when you pick up a player. Some D/ST are coming off the board in the 6th/7th round based on the belief that they will support that ADP. Additionally, some RBs come off in the 1st round produce like a player that should be on the WW (CJ400). This is probably bothersome to the person that drafted the 1st round flop.

 

Lastly, I am sure that whoever drafted Fred Jackson in the 6th round was some kind of statistical savant that saw the destruction brewing in FJ's loins! Perhaps everyone just forgot that Fred Jackson was available in the 1st round.

It's why we play the game- Luck is a component.

 

Hate the player, not the game......

fixed

 

although I disagree, I think CJ400 desrves a spot as RB #4 for a possible bye week start in larger leagues.

[faceplant]

It bothers me when I lose.

 

I love it when I win.

 

I played against a guy that had the Bengals and I got home just in time to see them explode against my team. It happens. I punched the door frame and moved on.

[lawofmurphy]

We were unhappy with the impact (positive or negative) that a DEF could have in our league. So we changed the scoring to balance them out.

 

Why not change the scoring?

[detlef]

Here's why I think D scoring should be as high as it is.

 

The correlation between a FF D/ST putting up a high score and the real life NFL team ending up with a W is likely much higher than at any other position.

 

PK? They score best when the team can't finish drives. Often comes back to haunt the team in real life.

QB? Not a chance. QBs putting up mad numbers in a losing effort happen all the time.

WR? Same story. Garbage time scores can boost a players FF stats in a losing effort.

RB? OK, not as bad as QB or WR, but Foster and AP put up nice stats last year on teams that didn't win a lot.

 

However, it almost never happens that a D goes off from a FF perspective and the NFL team loses.

Edited October 31, 2011 by detlef

[stevegrab]

fixed

 

although I disagree, I think CJ400 desrves a spot as RB #4 for a possible bye week start in larger leagues.

 

His 4 points outscored my 2 RB combined (Green Ellis & Hardesty both with 0)

 

PS Detlef makes a good point

[tonorator]

Don't want to come off whining.

 

but you are.

 

would you have created this thread if you had started buffalo or cincinnati?

[delusions of grandeur]

Is the gripe that all D/ST's tend to score highly in your league, or that some score that high some weeks? If it's the latter, then I'm really not sure what the issue is, because if a DEF is scoring that high, then they're obviously doing very well with sacks, INTs/fumbles and yardage, etc... Other than those, don't D's in your league who don't perform well score far lower? In most leagues it's the difference between 20+ and close to zero point,s which as some have said above, seems very appropriate that their scoring differs that much between subpar and top performers.

 

However, if it's a matter of too much scoring from D's all around (such as by heavily rewarding return yardage to the team D, which can make bad D's startable just because they get scored on so much to allow for more kickoff returns), then a scoring change might be appropriate... Well, a change might be fine here too, but I'm not really sure what your gripe is... As Detlef said, strong defensive performance should be a huge component in winning games.

[stethant]

I was thinking about this earlier in the season because my anecdotal observations were that there have been more dominating FFL defense performances this year than I recalled in recent years - defenses scoring 30 or 40 points in a standard non-PPR league where 5-20pts would cover about 95% of the normal range.

 

It is annoying but I would put it into the same category as the Antonio Brown performance mentioned earlier. This is just the way FFL is and sometimes you get screwed (or benefit).

[delusions of grandeur]

OK, I think I understand the gripe a bit better now... So you're saying that you don't like that a position drafted so late is allowing for high-scoring for defenses some weeks... But you've essentially highlighted why that's the case, when nearly all defenses have the potential for a good high scoring matchup on a given week... So aside from the elite and better D's, it really doesn't make 1 defense more valuable if it puts up a lot of points if most of them have that same potential. That makes them less scarce when you even have the option to go defense-by-committee and play matchups; Thus, with them being less rare they also have less draft value (especially in 12 teams or less when probably no more than 24 of the 32 will ever be rostered, with no possibility for any to be "out").

 

I think that's a huge misconception that just because a position has the highest scorers, it makes them more valuable (you see this all the time with people arguing to take a QB early)... It only makes a position less valuable if there are more viable options compared to the # of required starters... It's when you have only a few that can outscore the vast majority at that position (e.g., feature RBs & elite WRs) that gives them that much more value.

Edited October 31, 2011 by delusions of granduer

[detlef]

If you want to see something out of hand, when I first started, the league I played in gave 2 pts for sacks, 3 for TOs, plus the usual. That was compounded by the fact that you didn't get any yardage bonuses until 100 yds RR or 300 yds passing and only got 3 for that. In other words, unless your offensive player actually scored a TD, he either got dick or 3 pts. Meanwhile, Ds were routinely putting up 15 or more pts.

 

It took me years to convince everyone to at least change the offensive scoring so it would catch-up to the D/ST and PK scoring (which was another lame element. You watch your RB go over the century mark, and then see on the ticker where your opponent's PK just nailed a 32 yarder, completely canceling it out).

[Pope Flick]

I definitely understand it's part of the game. Don't want to come off whining. I play matchups too, like any position. But the high number of points D/ST can get often make a HUGE difference. I wonder if different leagues have "lower" scoring for D/ST than normal/majority of leagues.

 

 

Call out! You're a Bears fan and lamenting how a Defensive or Special Teams unit can carry a fantasy team? I refer you to the 2006 Chicago Bears in real life. TIA.

 

So no, it does not bother me one bit.

[DanTheMan_5]

Does it bother you when a WR puts up 30?

Does it bother you when a RB puts up 30?

Does it bother you when a TE puts up 30?

 

It's all part of the game. Rules are same for everybody. Know the rules and draft accordingly.

[keggerz]

I definitely understand it's part of the game. Don't want to come off whining. I play matchups too, like any position. But the high number of points D/ST can get often make a HUGE difference. I wonder if different leagues have "lower" scoring for D/ST than normal/majority of leagues.

None of my leagues give any scores to D/ST