Cowboyz1

Ware vs. Merriman debate

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I thought this was a great article on Demarcus Ware. This guy is becoming a big time play maker.

 

Fast off the edge, strong against the run and can cover too!

 

Article on D Ware

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Good debate..Merriman is a beast but getting caught doing roids tarnishes him in a major way IMO.

Edited by whomper

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::D

 

Both great players!

 

They were not injectibles. Not intentional. Should have been more careful.

 

This is just a way of trying to rationalize the fact they skipped Merriman.

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Two different styles of players IMO. At first I was disappointed we didn't go after Merriman, but now I realize why they took Ware. Ware is more versitile and made the adjustment to the 3-4 without a problem.

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Merriman is so over rated it makes me want to :D he's not even the best LB on his own team. Edwards is. The only reason this guy gets so much press is because he was a draft pick involved in that Manning/Rivers trade and becuase he's a juice head that got busted/suspended.

 

And take it easy with the Ware stuff also Ware isnt even ranked in the top 50 of LB in most scoring formats. At least you can put Merriman some where around 20-25 range. So as overrated as he is, he's still twice as good as Ware.

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::clap:

 

Both great players!

 

They were not injectibles. Not intentional. Should have been more careful.

 

This is just a way of trying to rationalize the fact they skipped Merriman.

 

:D

of course steroids is a good point to use to make that argument.

 

Merriman is so over rated it makes me want to :bash: he's not even the best LB on his own team. Edwards is. The only reason this guy gets so much press is because he was a draft pick involved in that Manning/Rivers trade and becuase he's a juice head that got busted/suspended.

 

:D

Overrated? the guy is absolutely insane. SD was not giving up 510 yards or 40 pts when he was there. He was creaming every QB he could adjust his sights too. He was the D roy. I don't see where he's overrated at all.

 

And take it easy with the Ware stuff also Ware isnt even ranked in the top 50 of LB in most scoring formats. At least you can put Merriman some where around 20-25 range. So as overrated as he is, he's still twice as good as Ware.

 

this is about half right. Ware isn't even ranked in the top 50, but he's a complete game changer and can disrupt a play with the best of them. His stats can't tell his story. He's a great player for that team, and especially for that defense.

And I think Merriman is more like top 10-15. 25? It seems to me like you might be a DEN fan.

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Merriman is so over rated it makes me want to :D he's not even the best LB on his own team. Edwards is. The only reason this guy gets so much press is because he was a draft pick involved in that Manning/Rivers trade and becuase he's a juice head that got busted/suspended.

 

And take it easy with the Ware stuff also Ware isnt even ranked in the top 50 of LB in most scoring formats. At least you can put Merriman some where around 20-25 range. So as overrated as he is, he's still twice as good as Ware.

 

 

 

Most 3-4 outside LBs are not ranked in the top 25-30 range. Its not their job to mop up tackles, but instead to pressure from the outside and turn the play in, if they cant make it. Merriman is a beast and I wouldnt be upset if Dallas had taken him, but he is only a pressure player, and cant cover a TE, or RB out of the backfield like Ware can. Dallas got what they wanted, and he makes that defense dominant. Same can be said for Merriman and what SD gets when he plays. He makes them a completely different defense. Merriman and Ware do more to change a game, than AJ Hawk or Ernie Sims will ever do. Because of the type of players they are. Its not about stats with them, but instead pressure.

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Most 3-4 outside LBs are not ranked in the top 25-30 range. Its not their job to mop up tackles, but instead to pressure from the outside and turn the play in, if they cant make it. Merriman is a beast and I wouldnt be upset if Dallas had taken him, but he is only a pressure player, and cant cover a TE, or RB out of the backfield like Ware can. Dallas got what they wanted, and he makes that defense dominant. Same can be said for Merriman and what SD gets when he plays. He makes them a completely different defense. Merriman and Ware do more to change a game, than AJ Hawk or Ernie Sims will ever do. Because of the type of players they are. Its not about stats with them, but instead pressure.

 

:D

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Most 3-4 outside LBs are not ranked in the top 25-30 range. Its not their job to mop up tackles, but instead to pressure from the outside and turn the play in, if they cant make it. Merriman is a beast and I wouldnt be upset if Dallas had taken him, but he is only a pressure player, and cant cover a TE, or RB out of the backfield like Ware can. Dallas got what they wanted, and he makes that defense dominant. Same can be said for Merriman and what SD gets when he plays. He makes them a completely different defense. Merriman and Ware do more to change a game, than AJ Hawk or Ernie Sims will ever do. Because of the type of players they are. Its not about stats with them, but instead pressure.

 

 

I'd much rather have Donnie Edwards on my team (real and fantasy) that Merriman. He's been a top 5 LB year after year and nobody ever talks about him (including the Charger fans) all they talk about is Merriman. Sacks alone do not make you a great player. You say's it's not about stats and to a point your right. However, if he's putting all that pressure on it should still show on some level in the stats. On the year Merriman has 0 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, only 2 pass defended and 1 int. As you pointed out he doesn’t get many tackles 28 solos in 7 games played. That is a 4 per game average... a fairly weak number 3-4 or not. All in all he has weak numbers at every single defensive category other than sacks. Also, keep in mind 6 out of his 8.5 sacks came against 2 teams (OAK & STL) which tells me those two teams had poor game plans against the SD Def in those particular games. IMO Merriman is very overrated and still has a lot to prove to justify all the man love he gets.

Edited by Tally

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Overrated? the guy is absolutely insane. SD was not giving up 510 yards or 40 pts when he was there. He was creaming every QB he could adjust his sights too. He was the D roy. I don't see where he's overrated at all.

 

 

 

"Insane", "Creaming every QB", sounds like he played like he was on something?

 

I suppose we'll just have to see if he comes back looking like JJ on Good Times.

 

I agree though, the guy can play and is very nasty when it comes to bringing pressure and hitting the ball carrier. However, he is definitely not as well versed in as many different positions, coverages schemes, and overall understanding of the 3 4 defense as Ware is. Ware makes plays in every facet of the game. That helps a club tremendously. I am glad we pick him.

Edited by Cowboyz1

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Merriman IMO is unquestionably the best defensive player on the Chargers and possibly in all of football. I do love Edwards..but when teams are prepping against the Charger defense Merriman is the guy teams are scared to death of.

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I'd rather have Merriman on my fantasy team, but would rather have Ware on my home team. Ware can do more for you then Merriman can, which in my opinion makes him more valuable. Thats not to say Merriman is not a very, very good player, I just happen to think that Ware is the more complete palyer. One bad thing about FF is we focus so much on the stat lines that we forget to look at the intangibles.

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I'd rather have Merriman on my fantasy team, but would rather have Ware on my home team. Ware can do more for you then Merriman can, which in my opinion makes him more valuable. Thats not to say Merriman is not a very, very good player, I just happen to think that Ware is the more complete palyer. One bad thing about FF is we focus so much on the stat lines that we forget to look at the intangibles.

 

 

 

Well said, I couldn't agree more..........

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"Insane", "Creaming every QB", sounds like he played like he was on something?

 

Yes, but being on something doesn't mean you're overrated. he may have cheated, but he is still phenomenal, and worth the hype. Of course now we've learned why he is so phenomenal, but you can't say he was overrated. Just a cheater.

I agree though, the guy can play and is very nasty when it comes to bringing pressure and hitting the ball carrier. However, he is definitely not as well versed in as many different positions, coverages schemes, and overall understanding of the 3 4 defense as Ware is. Ware makes plays in every facet of the game. That helps a club tremendously. I am glad we pick him.

 

Ware does not make plays in ever facet of the game. that's why his stats are so low. he does make big plays and can disrupt the play with the best of them, as I said earlier, but to say his knowledge is deeper than Merriman's or his play making ability is more is flat out wrong, in my opinion of course.

 

For clarity, I would say Ware deserves to be listed (not stat wise of course, because stats speak for themselves) in the top 20, about 5-10 behind Merriman. Merriman has already made more plays this season than Ware has since he came into the NFL. Actually, I should say "highlight plays".

But of course I'm not counting Ware's pressure plays and the ability to run down a receiver, or even get into a receivers head right before he attempts to catch a pass because they hear Ware rumbling down on them.

 

Ware is clearly the better team mate and the better choice for a team, because he hasn't cheated. But for big time crunch plays and plays that steal the soul of an offense, I'd take Merriman.

Can't go wrong either way, minus the roids of course.

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One bad thing about FF is we focus so much on the stat lines that we forget to look at the intangibles.

 

 

 

I could not agree more with this. great players get so much opposite team coverage they cannot often put up the big stats other players get. at the same time they open it up for their teammates to put up big stats so often people do not know they are even the best player on their teams.

 

This is why players like Merriman/Freeney really impress me as they put up the stats while being double and triple teamed.

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Merriman IMO is unquestionably the best defensive player on the Chargers and possibly in all of football. I do love Edwards..but when teams are prepping against the Charger defense Merriman is the guy teams are scared to death of.

 

The best defensive player in all of football is Peppers. if you want to talk physical ability or disrupting plays or smash mouth hard hitting or highlight plays or anything, Peppers has it all. "He's ridiculous. You're laughin, but it aint funny. He's ridiculous." as Chad Johnson put it.

 

I'd rather have Merriman on my fantasy team, but would rather have Ware on my home team. Ware can do more for you then Merriman can, which in my opinion makes him more valuable. Thats not to say Merriman is not a very, very good player, I just happen to think that Ware is the more complete palyer. One bad thing about FF is we focus so much on the stat lines that we forget to look at the intangibles.

 

 

Actually, this is a great statement. I was trying to put it this way, but failed miserably compared to this statement.

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The best defensive player in all of football is Peppers. if you want to talk physical ability or disrupting plays or smash mouth hard hitting or highlight plays or anything, Peppers has it all. "He's ridiculous. You're laughin, but it aint funny. He's ridiculous." as Chad Johnson put it.

Actually, this is a great statement. I was trying to put it this way, but failed miserably compared to this statement.

 

 

 

Peppers is a beast.

 

if I have to name 3 players I think are the top players on defense I would go

 

Freeney

Peppers

Merriman

 

In no particular order.

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A lot has to do with the type of defense teams want to build. Given today's game, you can only pay about 3 to 5 dynamic, pro bowl caliber, playmakers on each side of the ball as teams are typically hamstrung by the cap. That said, there are considerations that value a very versatile player over a specialty guy. Injuries can kill a defense and the more versatile guys you have the better. Merriman is a pressure, headhunter that makes you game plan around him. But look what happened to their D when he was gone. We just lost Ellis and still played arguably the best O in football to 14 points. Ware had everything to do with that as he was lined up everywhere and did everything well. I can't say that about Merriman. He does not do everything well, yet.......

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My top defensive "big men" in the game right now. Big meaning they can do just about everything well. Stopping the run, cover, make big plays, and pressure the QB.

 

1. Peppers

2. R. Lewis

3. Urlacher

4. Strahan

5. Ware

6. Brooks

7. J. Taylor

8. Merriman

9. Z. Thomas

10. Freeney

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interesting post. however, wrong forum. not trying to be a prick...just trying to generate some excitement in the IDP forum. give it a browse...we could use the traffic. :D

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I'd much rather have Donnie Edwards on my team (real and fantasy) that Merriman. He's been a top 5 LB year after year and nobody ever talks about him (including the Charger fans) all they talk about is Merriman. Sacks alone do not make you a great player. You say's it's not about stats and to a point your right. However, if he's putting all that pressure on it should still show on some level in the stats. On the year Merriman has 0 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, only 2 pass defended and 1 int. As you pointed out he doesn’t get many tackles 28 solos in 7 games played. That is a 4 per game average... a fairly weak number 3-4 or not. All in all he has weak numbers at every single defensive category other than sacks. Also, keep in mind 6 out of his 8.5 sacks came against 2 teams (OAK & STL) which tells me those two teams had poor game plans against the SD Def in those particular games. IMO Merriman is very overrated and still has a lot to prove to justify all the man love he gets.

 

 

LOL...the stats you are referring to are completion percentage and QB hurries and QB knockdowns...all of which score you absolutley zilch in fantasy. I think you are confusing Donnie Edwards with someone like Brian Urlacher. Urlacher changes games and makes tackles, interceptions, and sacks. But he is a MLB and a special one at that. Merriman's contribution is measured in stats you don't look at because it is not easy for you to find or it doesn't help your fantasy team win. Merriman is HUGE. But I wouldn't have him on my fantasy team.

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Most 3-4 outside LBs are not ranked in the top 25-30 range. Its not their job to mop up tackles, but instead to pressure from the outside and turn the play in, if they cant make it. Merriman is a beast and I wouldnt be upset if Dallas had taken him, but he is only a pressure player, and cant cover a TE, or RB out of the backfield like Ware can. Dallas got what they wanted, and he makes that defense dominant. Same can be said for Merriman and what SD gets when he plays. He makes them a completely different defense. Merriman and Ware do more to change a game, than AJ Hawk or Ernie Sims will ever do. Because of the type of players they are. Its not about stats with them, but instead pressure.

 

Yeah, but in IDP leagues like mine where sacks are valuable as well as FF's and PD's. (safety's also). sometimes these pass rushers deserve to be in the top 30.

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Im not sure I put freeny in this category. He is a speed rusher to the passer every down, and a huge liability in run support, as teams often run right over him.

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LOL...the stats you are referring to are completion percentage and QB hurries and QB knockdowns...all of which score you absolutley zilch in fantasy. I think you are confusing Donnie Edwards with someone like Brian Urlacher. Urlacher changes games and makes tackles, interceptions, and sacks. But he is a MLB and a special one at that. Merriman's contribution is measured in stats you don't look at because it is not easy for you to find or it doesn't help your fantasy team win. Merriman is HUGE. But I wouldn't have him on my fantasy team.

 

 

Wrong on both points. You obviously don’t play in any IDP leagues. Forced fumbles, pass defended, ECT do score you points and are quite valuable for DEF scoring. These stats are generally worth more points than tackles are because they are less frequent.

 

Also, I am most certainly not confusing Edwards for Urlacher in any way whatsoever. Urlacher is a very good LB and I currently own him on my IDP team. He is the equivalent of a top 2nd tier LB. Additionally; he is the 2nd best LB on his own team. Lance Briggs is the best LB on CHI.

 

Edwards on the other hand over the last 3 seasons is the #1 LB in all of football. Although in certain scoring system he may be ranked #2 to Keith Bulluck. Edwards may be having a slightly off year (so far this season) by his lofty standards and possibly may be ranked slightly below Urlacher so far this season (depending on the scoring system used) but historically he is still the better of the two LB's. Urlacher rank's #20 in my league using a 3 year history and probably no higher than #12 over the last 3 seasons using any other scoring format you would like.

Edited by Tally

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