Doc Holliday Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 1257530[/snapback] Hey, me and you are not allowed to agree on things. YOU CHANGE YOUR OPINION RIGHT NOW!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) Even if Peyton wins the SB this year, all the haters will still be saying, 'but he did it in a dome, not in the snow at NE'. Then if he did win that one, they'd just say 'well he didn't play the game with a broken leg or a sports hernia like a good qb would' There is no satisfying the haters. 1257912[/snapback] Yep. I don't need to wait for a player to get a ring before I can call him the best.the only sport where 1 can guy can get most of the blame for a championship win is basketball. Manning will be a stud against any opponent where his offensive line is either as good or better than the opposing defensive line. In games where the other teams defensive lines dominate the Colts O-line Manning will look bad. When your team gets behind and you are getting dominated by the defensive line you have no choice but to take chances. in games like those you will throw bad interceptions that give the haters fuel to bash even mega stars like Manning. Edited January 10, 2006 by Doc Holliday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heydave76 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I don't think you can really call Peyton for choking the last two years in NE. I think New England is just that good. How can you fault a guy for getting stopped by the best team in the league? They beat everybody so why is it all about Peyton when he loses to them. I really think it sells the Patriots short when you say Manning choked in those games. New England was just better, some of those picks they had on Manning were just unbelievable. New England just made great plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboysDiehard Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Even if Peyton wins the SB this year, all the haters will still be saying, 'but he did it in a dome, not in the snow at NE'. Then if he did win that one, they'd just say 'well he didn't play the game with a broken leg or a sports hernia like a good qb would' There is no satisfying the haters. 1257912[/snapback] Good info here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 He hasn't passed above 238 yards in a playoff loss. He has 2 TDs and 7 INTs in playoff losses. 1257578[/snapback] 4 of those 7 interceptions came in one game, the 2004 AFC Championship. I wouldn't call it a snowstorm. There was light snow during the game and there was no accumulation on the field. Manning was totally fustrated by the Pats D in that game, how many times did he throw the ball away (at a receivers feet) on third down and walk of the field disgusted? 1257578[/snapback] I only recall him doing that on screen plays that were well read by the Patriots defense. Below are his stats in playoff losses, the TOTAL line include the wins. Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------1999 ten L,16-19 | 19 43 227 0 0 | 2 22 12000 mia L,17-23 | 17 32 194 1 0 | 1 -2 02002 nyj L,0-41 | 14 31 137 0 2 | 1 2 02003 nwe L,14-24 | 23 47 237 1 4 | 2 4 02004 nwe L,3-20 | 27 42 238 0 1 | 1 6 0---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------TOTAL | 171 284 2171 14 8 | 10 32 2 1257578[/snapback] Check this out: 12/18 115 yards 16/27 145 yards 1 TD 21/41 201 yards 1 TD 22/37 237 yards 1 TD 1 INT 18/27 144 yards 1 TD 14/21 207 yards 2 TD 22/36 236 yards 2 TD The above are all WINNING performances by Brady. All of which are BELOW the 238 yard threshold you set as a "poor" performance by Manning in his losses. Taking Manning's poor performance in the 2004 AFC Championship, which I've already admitted was a stinker performance, Manning and Brady's numbers in play-off games are remarkably similiar. Yet Brady has won those games, while Manning has not. It sure does help to have a defense that can turn the ball over three or four times, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finger Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Lot's of excuses in this post from the so called experts : and people who love to throw out the term "Blind Homer". Me thinks some of you need to look in the mirror. If and when the Colts lose, Peyton will be considered a choker, whether it's justified or not. He will have to get the monkey off his back and I believe that will lead to his and the Colts demise. Oh and in advance for your comments to follow... stop and except reality bietches!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Thanks. Brilliant analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finger Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Thanks. Brilliant analysis. 1258208[/snapback] just tellin it like it is pirate boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charty Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Check this out: 12/18 115 yards 16/27 145 yards 1 TD 21/41 201 yards 1 TD 22/37 237 yards 1 TD 1 INT 18/27 144 yards 1 TD 14/21 207 yards 2 TD 22/36 236 yards 2 TD 1258115[/snapback] No one has ever said that Brady's yards per game, regular season (until this year) or playoffs is eye popping. That's why Brady is constantly in the 10-14 range in fantasy QB rankings. What sticks out to me there is the 8 TDs and 1 INT. It sure does help to have a defense that can turn the ball over three or four times, doesn't it? 1258115[/snapback] You could also say it helps to have a QB that doesn't turn the ball over three of four times, couldn't you? I didn't bring Brady into this, I was just commenting on the fact that Peyton does deserve some of the criticism he gets for his post season resume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheezhed Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I personally think Peyton is alittle overrated....... Put David Carr behind center for Indy and they'd still be in the playoffs, but put Peyton as Houston's signal caller and they would be no better. The guy can't run to save is life Put someone in his face and he's done. No disrespect to Mr Manning or all the Manning lovers on here....I'm just saying there are many QBs out there that would prosper in the same situation. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finger Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 wow....Pirate Boy must be putting a lot of thought into this response. been typing for awhile. Cheezhead musta touched a nerve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) What sticks out to me there is the 8 TDs and 1 INT.You could also say it helps to have a QB that doesn't turn the ball over three of four times, couldn't you? 1258230[/snapback] How many times has Manning turned the ball over three or four times? Once. In eight post season games he has had 8 interceptions. 4 against NE in the 2004 AFC Championship. 2 against NYJ in the fourth quarter of a blow out. His other INT came in the waning moments of last years divisional game with NE. So in 6 other games he has two picks. Brady has more than one pick in the play-offs. I believe he has 3. A remarkable stat for sure. But he hasn't had to force things with the defense he has had. I didn't bring Brady into this, I was just commenting on the fact that Peyton does deserve some of the criticism he gets for his post season resume. 1258230[/snapback] And I agree. Manning deserves a lot of the blame for the 2004 AFC Championship. However, last year, I wanted the Colts to go in to NE and minimize their mistakes. Don't throw picks. Play it closer to the vest. Manning tried to do that. He didn't throw a pick until garbage time. They tried safer throws, screens, etc. But Rhodes fumbled. And so did Wayne. And the defense couldn't get NE off the field. Other than those two games, one of which is debatable, I think you'll find hard to pin another post-season loss on Manning. Edited January 10, 2006 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest THEbigred Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 i think it would depend on how and why they lose...... 1257405[/snapback] Wow somebody else gets it. Manning should be judged on how he performs and leads the team - no more, no less. duh. If they lose because the D chokes or WRs are dropping passes or something else, but he played well overall, then it's asinine to rip him. By the same token, if the rest of the team holds up its end and he throws like crap, by all means rip away. Why is that so hard for so many people to grasp?? The use of stats to twist the truth is mildly amusing but mostly old (and still weak). Not to say Manning hasn't had his bad moments (his play-calling was my main beef last year - should freakin went deep at least a time or 2 vs that depleted secondary). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Wow somebody else gets it. Manning should be judged on how he performs and leads the team - no more, no less. duh. If they lose because the D chokes or WRs are dropping passes or something else, but he played well overall, then it's asinine to rip him. By the same token, if the rest of the team holds up its end and he throws like crap, by all means rip away. Why is that so hard for so many people to grasp?? The use of stats to twist the truth is mildly amusing but mostly old (and still weak). Not to say Manning hasn't had his bad moments (his play-calling was my main beef last year - should freakin went deep at least a time or 2 vs that depleted secondary). 1258927[/snapback] In most cases you are correct. Lots of people put Manning up an a pedastal, though, and claim that he is the greatest QB in the NFL by a large margin. That type of hype will create expectations that are larger than they are for other people. It's Manning's performances versus the expectations for his performances that lead people to think he chokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrograde assault Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I remember back in the 60's and early 70's the Cowboys being tagged next years champions, bridesmaids and all that kinda stuff because they won a bunch but never won the big game. Today its the Steelers and Colts in my mind that fill that bill, they both have good teams that win consistently, but haven't kicked down the door yet, so to speak. Lots of good qb's haven't won championships and their still good qb's but it seems to me every fan and player in the country covets that Superbowl Championship, so get out there and win one Manning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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