Runner Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) I have heard on ESPN and by sportswriters that this Indy team may be the best offense ever. While I don't necessarily agree or disagree, I know that there is a huge monkey on Peyton's back to win a Superbowl. With their improved defense, Indy really should win it all. However, I'm not sure they can handle the pressure. We'll find out soon enough. Now, to the point of my post... If Indy loses to either Pittsburgh this week or New England (or Denver) next week, what will people be saying about Manning? He's a great QB, but just like Marino, there will always be an (*) next to his stats if he doesn't win the superbowl. I don't know how much longer the Colts will continue to the top offensive team, but chances are that their defense will go back where it usually is... below average. If Peyton doesn't do it this year, he is in trouble. He, at least, has to make it to the Superbowl. Even Marino did that. Time will tell. My guess is that Indy chokes... Then how will everyone feel about him? Edited to include "Denver" Edited January 10, 2006 by Runner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URLACHERisGOD Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Then how will everyone feel about him? 1257168[/snapback] He's still a top 5 QB and I'd love to have him in a Bears uniform. However, that's not saying much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 i think it would depend on how and why they lose...... let's say edge fumbles 3 or 4 times, giving the opponent great field position...can't really hold manning accountable for a lose in that scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 If the Colts win it all Manning will get to much credit for the win. If the Colts lose he will get to much credit for the loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainySmurf Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I hate the way the media has to crown any current powerhouse in any sport "the best of all time". Within a year it's forgotten. I say give it five years, then look back on it and tell me it was the best of all time. Of course ESPN wants ratings today, not five years from now. I think Manning has no excuses this year, barring some real big snafus by his teammates. I've defended him in the past because he didn't have a very good defense, but if he ever wants to win a Super Bowl nows the time to step up and do it. He could end up with mediocre teams the rest of his career and become this generation's Dan Marino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) i think it would depend on how and why they lose...... let's say edge fumbles 3 or 4 times, giving the opponent great field position...can't really hold manning accountable for a lose in that scenario. 1257405[/snapback] oh yes they will Manning already gets blamed for losing to Miami in the play-offs. Despite the fact he threw for 194 yards, a TD, and no INT's. He led the Colts into FG range in OT, only to see Vanderjagt miss it. Everybody says Manning "choked" when in actuality, Lamar Smith of the Dolphins had 40 carries for 209 yards, and the Colts D couldn't hold a 7 point lead in the final minutes. Or even this week, I saw Manning blamed for the 41-0 loss to the Jets. People forget that the Jets scored on the opening drive (7-0). The Colts drove into FG range, where Vandy missed. The Jets took over and kicked a FG (10-0). Walters fumbled the ensuing kick-off, resulting in another Jets TD (17-0). So the Jets had a three score lead with the Colts having touched the ball once. That whole team quit on Manning. There were 7 or 8 dropped balls, and Manning still didn't throw any INT's until the fourth quarter. I watched that game, and he was the only Colt that didn't give up in the first quarter. It was sickening. But he gets the blame. Not to say he hasn't had a stinker. The AFC Championship Game vs. the Pats comes to mind. . . Edited January 10, 2006 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 If Indy loses to either Pittsburgh this week or New England (or Denver) next week, what will people be saying about Manning? He's a great QB, but just like Marino, there will always be an (*) next to his stats if he doesn't win the superbowl. 1257168[/snapback] Only idiots equate a QB's worth to how many rings are on his finger. Unfortunately, those idiots make up most of the sports media (especially the pro-Pats, anti-Colts faction at ESPN). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdawg Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Only idiots equate a QB's worth to how many rings are on his finger. Unfortunately, those idiots make up most of the sports media (especially the pro-Pats, anti-Colts faction at ESPN). 1257499[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Only idiots equate a QB's worth to how many rings are on his finger. Unfortunately, those idiots make up most of the sports media (especially the pro-Pats, anti-Colts faction at ESPN). 1257499[/snapback] Agree 100%. The problem for Manning will be if he chokes the game away in a similar fashion to last year's AFC Championship game. I know there are 2 ways to look at it...the defense was HUGH vs. Manning choked it. Most ex players that I have heard comment on the situation for the game conditions they have played in say that snowy conditions favor the offense. It's fairly easy to see why. It's harder to react to what someone else is doing in slippery conditions than to try and execute a known play. In any case, I don;t mean this to turn into a debate over that game. I'm just saying that if Manning has another bad playoff game and is the main culprit, it will reflect badly on him. And he'll still be a top QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runner Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Only idiots equate a QB's worth to how many rings are on his finger. Unfortunately, those idiots make up most of the sports media (especially the pro-Pats, anti-Colts faction at ESPN). 1257499[/snapback] You forgot anti-Dolphins faction. True, but, that's just the way it is. My guess is that Marino would trade some of his stats for a Superbowl win, just so that he has the monkey off his back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdawg Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Manning has always been CRAZY GOOD at home in the playoffs, the problem for him has been on the road, in the cold. One of the main reasons I think the Colts win the AFC Championship. Not to mention the SB, which is also being held in a dome this year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Agree 100%. The problem for Manning will be if he chokes the game away in a similar fashion to last year's AFC Championship game. 1257516[/snapback] The game last year wasn't the AFC Championship game (that was January of '04). In last year's game (January of '05), Manning didn't "choke." The Colts couldn't run the ball and Indy's WRs dropped numerous passes (Mungro got stripped by Bruschi deep in IND territory as well). Peyton managed the offense reasonably well, but didn't get much help. His one INT was a desperation play in garbage time. The AFC Championship game in January of '04 was a different story. Manning was horrible in that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 My guess is that Marino would trade some of his stats for a Superbowl win, just so that he has the monkey off his back. 1257519[/snapback] My guess is that Marino is at peace with his Super Bowl-less stellar career and couldn't care less what idiots like Boomer say about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) The game last year wasn't the AFC Championship game (that was January of '04). In last year's game (January of '05), Manning didn't "choke." The Colts couldn't run the ball and Indy's WRs dropped numerous passes (Mungro got stripped by Bruschi deep in IND territory as well). Peyton managed the offense reasonably well, but didn't get much help. His one INT was a desperation play in garbage time. The AFC Championship game in January of '04 was a different story. Manning was horrible in that one. 1257523[/snapback] Rhodes was the one who got stripped. And Wayne fumbled too. Manning looked to me like he was playing to not make mistakes last year, and wasn't taking chances. New England's defense was playing incredible, and forcing turnovers on ball carriers. I don't think it was his "fault" the Colts lost, but he sure didn't do anything to help them win. The fact the Colts gave up 14, 15, and 16 play drives hurt too. Edited January 10, 2006 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 If the Colts win it all Manning will get to much credit for the win. If the Colts lose he will get to much credit for the loss. 1257422[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 My guess is that Marino is at peace with his Super Bowl-less stellar career and couldn't care less what idiots like Boomer say about him. 1257525[/snapback] Wait, did I just type that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainySmurf Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 My guess is that Marino is at peace with his Super Bowl-less stellar career and couldn't care less what idiots like Boomer say about him. 1257525[/snapback] That would be very sad if an athlete didn't care about winning the Super Bowl as long as he had good stats. If I knew for a fact any athlete felt that way, I would never vote for him for the Hall of Fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Manning looked to me like he was playing to not make mistakes last year, and wasn't taking chances. New England's defense was playing incredible, and forcing turnovers on ball carriers. I don't think it was his "fault" the Colts lost, but he sure didn't do anything to help them win. 1257527[/snapback] Agreed, but the only way that you're going to beat a healthy New England in a snowstorm in Foxboro is to run the ball effectively, pick your spots through the air, and hope that your defense plays well. The Colts couldn't run the ball to save their lives in that game. On the other hand, Indy's defense played exceptionally well in the first half. Unfortunately, they got their a$$es run over in the second. The Colts are a different team in the dome. They scored over 30 points against NE there back in '03 and almost won the game at the end. And they've absolutely destroyed Denver there in the playoffs in consecutive seasons. I like their chances this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 That would be very sad if an athlete didn't care about winning the Super Bowl as long as he had good stats. If I knew for a fact any athlete felt that way, I would never vote for him for the Hall of Fame. 1257537[/snapback] That's nice, but that's not what I said. Being "at peace" with one's career doesn't equate to "not caring about winning the SB." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charty Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) I wouldn't call it a snowstorm. There was light snow during the game and there was no accumulation on the field. Manning was totally fustrated by the Pats D in that game, how many times did he throw the ball away (at a receivers feet) on third down and walk of the field disgusted? Manning continually has his statitistly worst game of the year in the playoffs. You can't win a championship when that happens yearly. He hasn't passed above 238 yards in a playoff loss. He has 2 TDs and 7 INTs in playoff losses. Obviously he is a great QB, one of the greatest of all time, but enough with the playoff excuses. Below are his stats in playoff losses, the TOTAL line include the wins. Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------1999 ten L,16-19 | 19 43 227 0 0 | 2 22 12000 mia L,17-23 | 17 32 194 1 0 | 1 -2 02002 nyj L,0-41 | 14 31 137 0 2 | 1 2 02003 nwe L,14-24 | 23 47 237 1 4 | 2 4 02004 nwe L,3-20 | 27 42 238 0 1 | 1 6 0---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------TOTAL | 171 284 2171 14 8 | 10 32 2 Edited January 10, 2006 by charty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Manning continually has his statitistly worst game of the year in the playoffs.You can't win a championship when that happens yearly. He hasn't passed above 238 yards in a playoff loss. He has 2 TDs and 7 INTs in playoff losses. Obviously he is a great QB, one of the greatest of all time, but enough with the playoff excuses. Below are his stats in playoff losses, the TOTAL line include the wins. Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------1999 ten L,16-19 | 19 43 227 0 0 | 2 22 12000 mia L,17-23 | 17 32 194 1 0 | 1 -2 02002 nyj L,0-41 | 14 31 137 0 2 | 1 2 02003 nwe L,14-24 | 23 47 237 1 4 | 2 4 02004 nwe L,3-20 | 27 42 238 0 1 | 1 6 0---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------TOTAL | 171 284 2171 14 8 | 10 32 2 1257578[/snapback] Notice that in three of those five losses, he's had to throw the ball over 40 times. That means that either (1) the defense has put them behind or (2) they're not running the ball effectively. Either scenario means that the rest of the team isn't doing its job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Little Bit Special Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 My guess is that Marino is at peace with his Super Bowl-less stellar career and couldn't care less what idiots like Boomer say about him. 1257525[/snapback] Berman's schtick is growing old. How many more times am I going to hear about the "BVB"'s between now and the Superbowl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Berman's schtick is growing old. How many more times am I going to hear about the "BVB"'s between now and the Superbowl? 1257662[/snapback] Actually, I was talking about Esiason. But I agree that Berman is an obnoxious douchebag as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainySmurf Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Being a little disingenuous there Swerski, by misquoting yourself. You said he was at peace with his "Super Bowl-less stellar career". You simultaneously implied that he was at peace without winning a Super Bowl and that you thought his career was stellar without winning a Super Bowl. I'm just parsing your English. If you want to retract what you said, fine, but that's what you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKF Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Even if Peyton wins the SB this year, all the haters will still be saying, 'but he did it in a dome, not in the snow at NE'. Then if he did win that one, they'd just say 'well he didn't play the game with a broken leg or a sports hernia like a good qb would' There is no satisfying the haters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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