PantherDave Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 OK, I'm good, the thought of Cliaz and Spain both moving to NC was a bit much to take....there is only so many goldfish and sheep to go around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 Its not going to happen. HR just got involved. This dude Steve, who I like, is "older". He has been with the company ALOT longer than me. They arent going to give him the job under any circumstances. They already told him no relo package, so HR says they cant turn around and give me one. They are "afraid of a lawsuit" according to 3 people who I spoke with today. So, my phone has been ringing off the hook all afternoon with various levels of management above me who kept explaining why I need to move to another town on my own dime to help the company. They all promised these great riches if I just took a "gamble". That "gamble" term kept being the recurring theme. I told them all that "I love to gamble. And I am willing to gamble by moving my family to a new place. But the company isnt willing to gamble on me. They want me to assume all the risk of this wager and I simply am not willing to do it." The direct manager was practically begging me to come. He is under ALOT of pressure to make this region produce as most of his hires have sucked. He told me that Steve wasnt going to get to move so I couldnt get the job in Nashville and that there was all this opportunity Knoxville. I told him that I agreed there was alot of opportunity to make money, thats why I threw my hat in the ring in the first place. And I am absolutely shocked that the company wont invest in their own people to go get that opportunity. Instead the company will spend 10 times that amount to hire and train somebody who will probably fail. And they will go through this process again in 6 months. And again in 6 months after that. And I told him that I know he doesnt control this thing but that he will be the one who is ultimately judged on the success or failure of his new person." I thought he was going to start crying he is so desperate. But we left it on really good terms. The last person to call was the VP. We went through the whole scenario and he was pretty honest with me. HR has tied his hands and if there was anything he could do. blah blah blah. So, I asked him, "have you ever moved without a relocation package". He thought for a minute and then said "no". Then I said, "how do expect me to do something that you yourself would not do, sir? Isnt the first tenet of leadership getting folks to do things for you because they know you are there and would do the exact same thing if need be"? He was speechless. Then he said, "you are right". I cant expect you to do this because I am not sure I would do it either." I think he respects me for standing my ground. But he still aint getting past HR with a relo package. So, I am happy here in Franklin for now. This isnt the first time I have been presented with chances to move. But this is the first one that I seriously considered. And there will be more in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxfactor Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Its not going to happen. HR just got involved. This dude Steve, who I like, is "older". He has been with the company ALOT longer than me. They arent going to give him the job under any circumstances. They already told him no relo package, so HR says they cant turn around and give me one. They are "afraid of a lawsuit" according to 3 people who I spoke with today. So, my phone has been ringing off the hook all afternoon with various levels of management above me who kept explaining why I need to move to another town on my own dime to help the company. They all promised these great riches if I just took a "gamble". That "gamble" term kept being the recurring theme. I told them all that "I love to gamble. And I am willing to gamble by moving my family to a new place. But the company isnt willing to gamble on me. They want me to assume all the risk of this wager and I simply am not willing to do it." The direct manager was practically begging me to come. He is under ALOT of pressure to make this region produce as most of his hires have sucked. He told me that Steve wasnt going to get to move so I couldnt get the job in Nashville and that there was all this opportunity Knoxville. I told him that I agreed there was alot of opportunity to make money, thats why I threw my hat in the ring in the first place. And I am absolutely shocked that the company wont invest in their own people to go get that opportunity. Instead the company will spend 10 times that amount to hire and train somebody who will probably fail. And they will go through this process again in 6 months. And again in 6 months after that. And I told him that I know he doesnt control this thing but that he will be the one who is ultimately judged on the success or failure of his new person." I thought he was going to start crying he is so desperate. But we left it on really good terms. The last person to call was the VP. We went through the whole scenario and he was pretty honest with me. HR has tied his hands and if there was anything he could do. blah blah blah. So, I asked him, "have you ever moved without a relocation package". He thought for a minute and then said "no". Then I said, "how do expect me to do something that you yourself would not do, sir? Isnt the first tenet of leadership getting folks to do things for you because they know you are there and would do the exact same thing if need be"? He was speechless. Then he said, "you are right". I cant expect you to do this because I am not sure I would do it either." I think he respects me for standing my ground. But he still aint getting past HR with a relo package. So, I am happy here in Franklin for now. This isnt the first time I have been presented with chances to move. But this is the first one that I seriously considered. And there will be more in the future. Sorry it didn't work out Spain. Although something tells me it's not that big a deal for you as you're happy where you're at. You'll get more offers in the future I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Its not going to happen. HR just got involved. This dude Steve, who I like, is "older". He has been with the company ALOT longer than me. They arent going to give him the job under any circumstances. They already told him no relo package, so HR says they cant turn around and give me one. They are "afraid of a lawsuit" according to 3 people who I spoke with today. So, my phone has been ringing off the hook all afternoon with various levels of management above me who kept explaining why I need to move to another town on my own dime to help the company. They all promised these great riches if I just took a "gamble". That "gamble" term kept being the recurring theme. I told them all that "I love to gamble. And I am willing to gamble by moving my family to a new place. But the company isnt willing to gamble on me. They want me to assume all the risk of this wager and I simply am not willing to do it." The direct manager was practically begging me to come. He is under ALOT of pressure to make this region produce as most of his hires have sucked. He told me that Steve wasnt going to get to move so I couldnt get the job in Nashville and that there was all this opportunity Knoxville. I told him that I agreed there was alot of opportunity to make money, thats why I threw my hat in the ring in the first place. And I am absolutely shocked that the company wont invest in their own people to go get that opportunity. Instead the company will spend 10 times that amount to hire and train somebody who will probably fail. And they will go through this process again in 6 months. And again in 6 months after that. And I told him that I know he doesnt control this thing but that he will be the one who is ultimately judged on the success or failure of his new person." I thought he was going to start crying he is so desperate. But we left it on really good terms. The last person to call was the VP. We went through the whole scenario and he was pretty honest with me. HR has tied his hands and if there was anything he could do. blah blah blah. So, I asked him, "have you ever moved without a relocation package". He thought for a minute and then said "no". Then I said, "how do expect me to do something that you yourself would not do, sir? Isnt the first tenet of leadership getting folks to do things for you because they know you are there and would do the exact same thing if need be"? He was speechless. Then he said, "you are right". I cant expect you to do this because I am not sure I would do it either." I think he respects me for standing my ground. But he still aint getting past HR with a relo package. So, I am happy here in Franklin for now. This isnt the first time I have been presented with chances to move. But this is the first one that I seriously considered. And there will be more in the future. Sorry to hear that. Sounds like a bait-and-switch with a dash of "take one for the team". At least you weren't actively looking to move and it didn't work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I would think that there is a chance that the company could offer Steve a bump in pay to stay put (maybe with a new title, etc) ... which would free them up to offer you a relo package as Steve would have a "different job" and would therefore "not be interested" in the job you're taking...or somesuch. Some people have NO creativity! Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montster Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 i'm just throwing this out there because this is what happened to us: last year we were considering moving to the west coast. about that time, my wife's boss mentioned they were looking for someone for their san diego office. my wife volunteered, and they agreed to pay our moving costs, on one condition: if my wife left the company within a year of our move, she had to reimburse the company the moving costs. i know you've said you're content where you are, but if this job is something you want, maybe a similar scenario could be considered enough of a "compromise" on your part that they could do it without worrying about getting sued by steve. just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I would think that there is a chance that the company could offer Steve a bump in pay to stay put (maybe with a new title, etc) ... which would free them up to offer you a relo package as Steve would have a "different job" and would therefore "not be interested" in the job you're taking...or somesuch. Some people have NO creativity! Sheesh. Seriously. I can think of seven ways to Sunday to make this move work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Yep. I check on that before I even responded back that I might be interested. I was half joking, but had a feeling that came into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 Some people have NO creativity! Sheesh. Seriously. I can think of seven ways to Sunday to make this move work. We have VERY weak leadership in my management structure right now. My current boss is the worst boss I have ever had. Nobody even knows what he does. He adds nothing to our company at all. I believe he will be let go the next time we have a RIF. How he justifies his salary is beyond me, except he is old friends with his immediate supervisor, who also is a weak leader. Anyway, I told my manager when he called to see if I would take one for the team, that a strong creative leader would find a way to get this done. If he wanted me to make this move, he could make it happen. His only response was, "we cant get you a relo package". He is too lazy and too stupid and too scared to ever ruffle anybodys feathers. So, I can never go to him for assistance on anything. He has only been in our market for a year, and he has created alot of enemies becaause of his own incompetance and stupidity. And he has no political allies. And he is too dumb to realize it. Ive tried to help him, but he is thoroughly uncoachable and whenever I do try to emlighten him we typically wind up in a shouting match. So, I have quit trying to help him and will let him crash and burn. This was just one more example where he wont fight for his people. That said, I am very happy where I am. And so is the family. I wasnt really looking to move but saw an opportunity. This situation was a win for me, no matter what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Seriously. I can think of seven ways to Sunday to make this move work. I agree. The whole line of reasoning that "Steve is older" doesn't mean crap. If they want you more, they have every right to offer you more. Believe me, if a Fortune 50 company like Dow Chemical (my empolyer) can get away with offering high potential people better compensation packages and more opportunities, I'm pretty sure it's legal. I'm guessing that spain's superiors are either not giving him the whole story, or his company is run by a bunch of r-tards. Or both. Even if they couldn't offer a "relocation package", why not a "signing bonus" that happens to be about the cost of a relocation? The academic one is correct, even with one assumes that the HR department is correct, there are still several ways of making this work if one wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Couldn't they get around the HR no relo stance by making it a signing bonus or something like that? It seems to me that this just needs a little creative thinking on their part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayItAintSoJoe Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 If you’re willing to move I wouldn’t let the relocation package be a deal breaker if I were you. Think about it, if you make the move you get the following: 1. more distance between you and your current boss who you think is an idiot 2. more visits with your in-laws from NC which will make your wife happy 3. a bump in base pay 4. a chance to look like a hero in the eyes of the company 5.an additional “raise” based on the cost of living difference between Nashville & Knoxville. (according to salary.com “the cost of living in Knoxville, TN is 21.6% lower than in Nashville, TN”) Whatever you fork out in moving expenses you will recoup pretty quickly. It sounds like a great opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Seriously, what industry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 at least it didn't drag on for months...that can wear a guy out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 It seems like this could be a real good career move for additional pay and better opportunities for future promotions. It also seems liek you and your family is not against moving. Why is a relocation package such a big issue in this whole thing. For a 10k relocation package it would not take much in additional base pay to cover your moving expenses. Additional base pay basically means that every percentage raise you get now just compunds into more money. if you have a bonus structure based on a % of base pay that will be more. Your future promotions will be more money. Any 401k matchintg based on % will be more money. If this is the right thing for your career I would not let a relo package (moving in same state) be the reason not to do it. Maybe your subconcious is telling you it is such a big deal because deep down you don't want to move you and your family?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 I am hearing rumors that my manager scuttled the deal. He wants to keep me close to him for a number of reasons, good and bad. Thats ok as he is about to get his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Awesome news!!! I thought my plans for Nov 11th were about to implode. Tell your boss thanks for taking my collect call! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I am hearing rumors that my manager scuttled the deal. He wants to keep me close to him for a number of reasons, good and bad. Thats ok as he is about to get his. if thats true....thats crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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