kpholmes Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 In a philosophy course where we have been debating this topic for over a week now, wanted to see Huddler's opinions. No crazy circumstances, just a general question. Is having the complete ability to save someone's life and passing by more morally permissible than incentively killing someone? Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Both are wrong, but killing is more so because you start the events that lead to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Yes...no question. While I think we have the duty to save someone else's life, a coward that cannot is not a murderer...just a coward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Yes...no question. While I think we have the duty to save someone else's life, a coward that cannot is not a murderer...just a coward. you are assuming that the person chooses not to help out of fear, what if they choose not to help out of indifference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 you are assuming that the person chooses not to help out of fear, what if they choose not to help out of indifference? Then they're immoral...still not a murderer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) you are assuming that the person chooses not to help out of fear, what if they choose not to help out of indifference? Then they're just a republican. Edited February 21, 2008 by yo mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpholmes Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 you are assuming that the person chooses not to help out of fear, what if they choose not to help out of indifference? Right, the understanding is that they are making a conscious choice NOT to save the person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNasty Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I'd say it's a question of consent, for me. If the person is capable of deciding to ask for help and doesn't-- I wouldn't interfere. If it's a situation where someone is in a position where they can't consent to help (a minor, or an unconscious person) and my actions are within the scope of what I'd want somebody to do for me in a similar situation, then I'd intervene. Otherwise, I'd spend all day smacking Big Macs and cigarettes out of people's hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 This topic reminds me of why I hated Philosophy in college. We would just sit around and argue about nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 More often than not I would say it is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 "We must always fear the wicked. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampnuts Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 It's been my experience that most people tend to freeze up or hesitate to act. I don't see this as a flaw, I just believe this makes them human. We all want to believe that we're noble and brave, but when people are put face to face with a critical moment it's either fight or flight. I've seen grown men run from a burning house with their families still inside, and I've seen people risk their own safety to help complete strangers. I've had some true moments over the years when I can say I've actually saved someones life. But I've also had two moments in my career when I've had to watch people die that I could provide no assistance to whatsover. One was a drowning that we couldn't reach in time and one was an entrapped man in a burning vehicle. These are two things that I remember very vividly and will never forget. I also carry guilt over the deaths of both these men, even though I am certain I could not have done anything to prevent their deaths. People never know how they will react until they are put in a crisis situation, so I'd reserve judgement on those who don't act out of fear. Those who don't offer help out of pure indifference are inhuman in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 We will all die. The question is when? If you believe in fate then who are you to interfere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Here's as close as I've come to something like that: I'm driving down a freeway (the 5 south) at night, probably around 11pm. Not much traffic. It was one of those glance at my radio moments and as I look back up I THINK I see a car cutting straight across all 4 lanes about 100 yards ahead of me, with the brakes going on at only the last second. It was such an odd sight I wasn't sure if it was really what I saw, because let's face it that's pretty extreme. As I pass the spot, I then CLEARLY see a gap in bushes on the shoulder, confirming that I had in fact seen a car go from the far left lane and off the right shoulder in a span of about 3 seconds. now, mind you I pass this spot going about 65 mph. As I look in the rear view mirror I see another car that was just behind me slow down at that spot. I kept going, but grabbed my cell phone, dialed 911 and gave them the exact spot of the accident, something I coulnd't have done because I couldn't remember the last exit I passed, but was able to tell them the spot was a half mile north of the very next exit. I decided NOT to turn around because CHP had been dispatched and they're usually quite good. Also - there was someone else at the scene PLUS LA freeways aren't like most: you can't exit, go under a bridge then get on in the opposite direction lickety split like most other places, especially when you're heading towards the downtown area, which I was. I never heard back from CHP. If the guy who did pull over didn't have a phone with him, I was the only one who placed a call, I'm pretty sure. So - did I do right? I don't know if anyone died at the accident, but I did all I could. Had I pulled over I couldn't have given an exact spot for CHP to get to - I know that for sure. And I'm of the opinion that crowding the scene of an accident can get in the way of the pros. True story. It's never black and white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 This topic reminds me of why I hated Philosophy in college. We would just sit around and argue about nonsense. My wife is a college philosophy teacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturphy Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 It's never black and white. And this is why the whole discussion is bogus. IMHO. You'd have to sit down and tell me all the details of each scenario before I'd judge one way or the other. Either way, death is tragic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 True story. It's never black and white. i never knew you were a cold blooded killer ... it all makes sense now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 My wife is a college philosophy teacher. Yeah, but does she have tenure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 i never knew you were a cold blooded killer ... it all makes sense now. Well, what's your take on my story? If I pulled over and someone was bleeding to death would I have been able to save their life AND call for an ambulance with no idea where to dispatch it to? That's pretty much the question I had to answer at 65 mph, knowing someone else had already pulled over to help but had no idea if they had a phone to call for more help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 My wife is a college philosophy teacher. Oops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Oops! Yeah, but does she have tenure? She read over the thread and said "Tenure?? No one gets tenure, not even people with twice the resume that I have. . .and besides, who would tenure someone who talks about nonsense for a living?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Well, what's your take on my story? If I pulled over and someone was bleeding to death would I have been able to save their life AND call for an ambulance with no idea where to dispatch it to? That's pretty much the question I had to answer at 65 mph, knowing someone else had already pulled over to help but had no idea if they had a phone to call for more help. i don't know man. i've had that happen too where something happens and by the time you even realize it, you are well past that point. you certainly did the right thing by calling it in. anything else is hard to say because it is all circumstantial. sure, there could have been a chance that if you pulled over and got to the car quickly, maybe you could have pulled some bodies from a burning car moments before it exploded. maybe you could have helped someone apply pressure to a wound to stop the bleeding until help arrived, thus saving their life. maybe you could have helped unhook a seat belt that was wrapped around someone, cutting off their air flow. maybe you show up and 3 other cars have already stopped, providing whatever help is needed. maybe you show up and the people are just sitting by their car, waiting for the cops who they have already called. maybe you show up and the owner of the car is a crazed maniac who slices your throat. and on and on. who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 (edited) She read over the thread and said "Tenure?? No one gets tenure, not even people with twice the resume that I have. . .and besides, who would tenure someone who talks about nonsense for a living?" Hmmm. Then how the hell did Wiegie get tenure? Edited February 22, 2008 by yo mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codwagon Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Then they're just a republican. Don't you mean a rapist republican? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Could I have done something to "save" my 92 year old grandfather before he died? Yes. I could have gotten a doctor to treat his pneumonia. Did I (or my dad or my aunt) kill my grandfather? No. ...................... Assuming you're not asking about something like this, but more like a "Good Samaritan" type situation (a guy is bloodied in a fight and left for dead, what do you do) ... if have to first ask to whom do you owe your allegiance. If you answer "yourself" ... then, you probably don't have to do anything. Nothing matters in the world except yourself. If you answer "humanity" ... then, you should do something to try to save him. Nothing matters more than your fellow man. If you answer "God" ... then, because (in His eyes) we're all His children, you should do something to try to save him. Nothing matters more than the things God loves (and He loves all of us). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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