Fixing our City Schools

[Egret]

 

I don't work in this district. There's many reasons the students are failing. Many of the reasons aren't the teachers. It's hard enough to get results from when you have support from administration, the board, parents, and other staff.

[MikesVikes]

Gee, I wonder why people don't want to be teachers that get layed off every year when they can make more money somewhere else?

[driveby]

Emphasize Demand parent involvement.

 

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

Parents don't care, kids are dumb as a rock, they know it and they don't care.

[dmarc117]

Nearly half of Chicago public school 9th graders who started high school in the last seven years have dropped out without earning a high school diploma, according to a study to be released Monday.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/c...0,1248671.story

 

this was in the trib this week.

[Yukon Cornelius]

i blame the teachers and rock and roll

[westvirginia]

You can't fix the schools, least of all by throwing money at them. IIRC, private schools spend roughly half the $/student that public do, to much greater effect. The problem is the parents.

[Coffeeman]

...private schools spend roughly half the $/student that public do, to much greater effect. The problem is the parents.

+1 This is the main reason we're paying through the nose for our kids to go private. The postive effects of motivated, like-minded parents cannot be overstimated. If a teacher was a real problem, we could have them removed in less than a semester. My MBA class pulled this off during my second year - we got up in masse at the beginning of a lecture, marched to the dean's office, and got it done.

 

Its amazing - when the school is clear on who pays the bills, good things can happen...

Edited February 29, 2008 by Coffeeman

[Egret]

+1 This is the main reason we're paying through the nose for our kids to go private. The postive effects of motivated, like-minded parents cannot be overstimated. If a teacher was a real problem, we could have them removed in less than a semester. My MBA class pulled this off during my second year - we got up in masse at the beginning of a lecture, marched to the dean's office, and got it done.

 

Its amazing - when the school is clear on who pays the bills, good things can happen...

Crappy teachers make us all look bad. Bad teachers shouldn't stay. From reading the comments, it doesn't sound like the administration did evaluations in a serious manner. You can always do something to improve your job. Good evaluations help you improve.

 

I work my tail off to keep parents involved. They can call me on my cell phone, they can call me during the day, they can email me, they can stop in. They receive daily notes. I ask for support from home, and I generally receive it. When students know that, I start to see improvements.

[Coffeeman]

Crappy teachers make us all look bad. Bad teachers shouldn't stay. From reading the comments, it doesn't sound like the administration did evaluations in a serious manner. You can always do something to improve your job. Good evaluations help you improve.

 

I work my tail off to keep parents involved. They can call me on my cell phone, they can call me during the day, they can email me, they can stop in. They receive daily notes. I ask for support from home, and I generally receive it. When students know that, I start to see improvements.

Good for you, Egret, and good for the parents who step up. You'd do well at our kids' school - wanna move to Pasadena? High housing costs aside, its a nice place...

[rocknrobn26]

You can't fix the schools, least of all by throwing money at them. IIRC, private schools spend roughly half the $/student that public do, to much greater effect. The problem is the parents.

 

No argument about the problem being parents, but private school teachers are woefully underpaid, have few or no benefits (health ins., pension, etc.) plus the schools have minimal lab type courses, buses, and "extra-services". It's not that private schools are more efficient. I'm not against private schools, and the big qualifier is the parents pay big $$$$ to send their children there (I guess most people only look at their school taxes to complain,NOT as an investment), that alone is an incentive to parental involvement, and again THAT is the key issue.

[Egret]

Good for you, Egret, and good for the parents who step up. You'd do well at our kids' school - wanna move to Pasadena? High housing costs aside, its a nice place...

Michigan has one of the best teacher pay to cost of living ratios in the country. If I lived somewhere else, I don't think I could be a teacher.

[Perchoutofwater]

It all comes down to the parents. Unless parents are willing to get involved in their children's education, it really doesn't matter how good the teacher is or how good the facility is. Until we can find a way to make parents accountable we are really just pissing in the wind. Sure some teachers may be able to act as surrogate parent to a few of the students, but they don't have the time to do that for all that need it. We actually have a high school senior that is living with us because his home life sucks. My wife has taken the kid under her wing, and he is thriving, but that is only one kid, she can't do it for all of them. The question isn't how do we get better teachers into the class room (at least not for the most part), but how can we get parents involved. As RR stated, private schools teachers are paid less, they generally have less in the way of facilities, yet the private school kids continually out perform the public school kids. The reason behind it is obvious, the private school kids have parents that value their children's education, and take an active roll in it. The really sad thing is that in public schools, those kids that do have active parents aren't taught to their fullest potential because the teachers often have to teach to the lowest common denominator, unless they are in honors programs.

 

Throwing more money at the problem isn't a solution. We already waste a ton of money on education as it is. With regard to taxes, they just piss me off when I look at the over all results, and even more when I look at what the money is spent on. I'm a contractor and our firm specializes in schools and hospitals. Even though I make a lot of money on them, it makes me want to puke when I look at all the money wasted on school buildings. You should see all the fluff that has gone into the buildings we've been erecting the last 10 years or so, it is disgusting. Indoor football practice facilities, decorative lighting, murals, gymnasiums with seating you would find at a professional stadium, jumbotrons, indoor pools, monuments, decorative wrought iron fencing, cast and natural stone, etc... Don't get me wrong they sure look nice, but does that really help in education?

[Bill Swerski]

You can't fix the schools, least of all by throwing money at them. IIRC, private schools spend roughly half the $/student that public do, to much greater effect. The problem is the parents.

 

Both of my parents taught at high schools in suburban Chicago. Even though some of the public school teachers being hired these days are sub-standard, the students aren't learning because they're completely undisciplined and their parents don't hold them accountable for learning the material. There has to be a desire on the part of the student to learn. That's the bottom line.

 

Also agreed that private school are woefully under-funded and the faculty are under-paid and have crap for benefits. So, if you want to become a high school teacher, your choices are either disciplined students, overly-demanding parents, and no money/benefits... or undisciplined students, non-existent parents, and good pay/benefits. No wonder nobody wants to be a teacher anymore.

[yo mama]

Its so easy to blame the parents, shrug our shoulders, and move on. The depressing reality is that there are some good kids who have bad parents, and most public school systems just aren't equipped to make a difference for those kids. I'm a strong believer in mentoring programs as a (partial) solution because I've seen them work, they don't cost taxpayers anything, and the solution comes from within local community rather than the gubment. Unfortunately, for every thousand people who gripe about "how bad the schools are" there's only a handful who end up stepping up (not counting the teachers, obviously).

Edited February 29, 2008 by yo mama

[driveby]

Its so easy to blame the parents, shrug our shoulders, and move on. The depressing reality is that there are some good kids who have bad parents, and most public school systems just aren't equipped to make a difference for those kids. I'm a strong believer in mentoring programs as a (partial) solution because I've seen them work, they don't cost taxpayers anything, and the solution comes from within local community rather than the gubment. Unfortunately, for every thousand people who gripe about "how bad the schools are" there's only a handful who end up stepping up (not counting the teachers, obviously).

 

[Egret]

Its so easy to blame the parents, shrug our shoulders, and move on. The depressing reality is that there are some good kids who have bad parents, and most public school systems just aren't equipped to make a difference for those kids. I'm a strong believer in mentoring programs as a (partial) solution because I've seen them work, they don't cost taxpayers anything, and the solution comes from within local community rather than the gubment. Unfortunately, for every thousand people who gripe about "how bad the schools are" there's only a handful who end up stepping up (not counting the teachers, obviously).

[westvirginia]

Its so easy to blame the parents, shrug our shoulders, and move on. The depressing reality is that there are some good kids who have bad parents, and most public school systems just aren't equipped to make a difference for those kids. I'm a strong believer in mentoring programs as a (partial) solution because I've seen them work, they don't cost taxpayers anything, and the solution comes from within local community rather than the gubment. Unfortunately, for every thousand people who gripe about "how bad the schools are" there's only a handful who end up stepping up (not counting the teachers, obviously).

 

This is a pretty good post, and mentoring programs can be great. And you're right, griping does no good. That's why we've done what we've done. I don't think it's the responsibility of the state or "society" to educate my kids, so we do it ourselves. I don't cost the taxpayers anything.

 

No legislation in the world will force people to be better parents. And most people have enough to do with their own families. Frankly, I'm not willing to make the time, taking it away from my own family, to give it to someone else for some nebulous "good" of society. Do you mentor?

[Coffeeman]

As I've said before, the economy and education are my top 2 election issues, with the war and healthcare a distant 3rd/4th. I don't care if he/she is a Rep or a Dem, I'll vote for whoever has the best plans for improving these top 2 things, and the next 2 to a lesser degree - period. Of course its a tall order - not sure if any one person/team can tackle all of these within a 4 or even 8 year timeframe, but we have to try.

 

The people who aren't stepping up to help their own kids, or to help those less fortunate ones - cuz its 'not my problem' - don't realize how its all connected. Vicious cycle: poor education leads to poor economy, leads to more foreign investment leaving the U.S. and going elsewhere, leads to worsening healthcare system, to more inner city kids at risk, leading back to them (and their kids and grandkids) not caring about school etc, etc. Leads to YOU - Mr. Blue collar (or white collar) worker losing YOUR J-O-B before you know it, leaving you to ask: what the hell just happened? And if you're married without kids, or single w/no kids, and thinking education still doesn't pertain to you, you're dead wrong.

 

We all play a part, people! Wake up and smell the coffee! Here, since I'm the coffeeman, I'll pour you some....

[dmarc117]

teachers are under compensated. parents are lazy and dont care.

[yo mama]

This is a pretty good post, and mentoring programs can be great. And you're right, griping does no good. That's why we've done what we've done. I don't think it's the responsibility of the state or "society" to educate my kids, so we do it ourselves. I don't cost the taxpayers anything.

 

No legislation in the world will force people to be better parents. And most people have enough to do with their own families. Frankly, I'm not willing to make the time, taking it away from my own family, to give it to someone else for some nebulous "good" of society. Do you mentor?

I mentored for three or four years when I lived in Houston, Texas. During that time I had six mentees: all poor, inner-city Hispanic kids. Some legal, some not so much. All went on to college. I still keep in touch with three of them. Since I've moved back to California I haven't gotten plugged into a new mentoring system. Though, I still volunteer with other organizations.

 

I agree with you on the legislation bit. That's why I can't stand the whole "no child left behind" nonsense. About the only legislation I'd get behind would be for a two-tiered education system: one tier for classrooms that contractually require parent (or family) participation, and a second tier for everyone else. The painful reality is that we're not going to "save" - or even educate - every kid, so we just need to allocate the resources we have as efficiently and effectively as possible to make the greatest impact possible for the kids and families that are willing to hold up their end of the educational bargain. That's just basic strategy.

 

To the extent people want to go the private or home schooling route because the public schools aren't good enough, I respect that. But even under the best of circumstances that still leaves, IMO, an unacceptably high population of at-risk kids who have the potential to do more, but who just don't have the resources or guidance to do much with that potential. ( I also figured that if I could make a difference for just one kid, I'd earn my liberal wings). But my first mentoring experience was so rewarding that I had no problem signing up for a second tour of duty. Then a third. Then I had twins of my own and needed to focus on them. Society obviously wouldn't need mentors if every parent actually did their job, so I've gotta do mine. But some parents don't, and that's never going to change. While I know its pie in the sky optimism, if every decent parent out there made the effort just once in their lifetime to make a difference for just one kid I think that'd make a larger overall positive impact than any federal or state legislation ever could.

[Coffeeman]

No legislation in the world will force people to be better parents. And most people have enough to do with their own families. Frankly, I'm not willing to make the time, taking it away from my own family, to give it to someone else for some nebulous "good" of society. Do you mentor?

 

Totally good point - I'd add that being a mentor doesn't have to be a formal thing. It can be as simple as stepping up as an assistant coach (or head coach , if you have even more time) on your kids' LL team. Why? Because that may be the only 'free time' you have, and therfore your only chance to help a few kids whose own mom/dad either can't or won't play catch with them or teach them basics of a sport. The way you talk to and teach them, and model how you talk to/show respect to your own kid on the team, can go a long way.

 

Eyes are always watching you no matter what you do - and I mean the little eyes of kids, not God here - so everything counts. That is, how you hold the kids/parents responsible for being there on time (= shows respect to themselves, their coaches and teammates) and for playing catch or running for a few minutes every day outside of practice (so that practice can be for teaching more advanced skills, etc.) its all important. And if you need to invite a couple of those poor kids over to your house - as a 'playdate' - on the weekends or weeknights of no practice - to make those extra skills and/or cardio improvements happen, then do it. The kids will appreciate it, their slacker parents will appreciate it, and hell - maybe those parents will even be inspired to step up more too.

 

If brains and tutoring are more your speed vs. sports, then you can have 'homework playdates' - or woodworking, painting, car detailing skills, whatever - with these same kids, you'll likewise be adding something incredible to their lives. The key is make them want to improve their lots in life to get an education, be a productive, successful member of society and maybe - just maybe - aspire to having a strong family unit like yours someday.

 

Yep, 'old school' families with a married (or just long-term committed) mom and dad and respectful kids, in the same house, are the key to any good society. And that is actually the heart of the problem right there....

[westvirginia]

I mentored for three or four years when I lived in Houston, Texas. During that time I had six mentees: all poor, inner-city Hispanic kids. Some legal, some not so much. All went on to college. I still keep in touch with three of them. Since I've moved back to California I haven't gotten plugged into a new mentoring system. Though, I still volunteer with other organizations.

 

I agree with you on the legislation bit. That's why I can't stand the whole "no child left behind" nonsense. About the only legislation I'd get behind would be for a two-tiered education system: one tier for classrooms that contractually require parent (or family) participation, and a second tier for everyone else. The painful reality is that we're not going to "save" - or even educate - every kid, so we just need to allocate the resources we have as efficiently and effectively as possible to make the greatest impact possible for the kids and families that are willing to hold up their end of the educational bargain. That's just basic strategy.

 

To the extent people want to go the private or home schooling route because the public schools aren't good enough, I respect that. But even under the best of circumstances that still leaves, IMO, an unacceptably high population of at-risk kids who have the potential to do more, but who just don't have the resources or guidance to do much with that potential. ( I also figured that if I could make a difference for just one kid, I'd earn my liberal wings). But my first mentoring experience was so rewarding that I had no problem signing up for a second tour of duty. Then a third. Then I had twins of my own and needed to focus on them. Society obviously wouldn't need mentors if every parent actually did their job, so I've gotta do mine. But some parents don't, and that's never going to change. While I know its pie in the sky optimism, if every decent parent out there made the effort just once in their lifetime to make a difference for just one kid I think that'd make a larger overall positive impact than any federal or state legislation ever could.

 

I think you're heart's in the right place, I just think your a little (LOT) naieve (sp?) on this issue. I still hold to the idea that, left alone to act in their own self interest, most people would make the choices that most benefit themselves AND those choices would benefit society as a whole. People see it as the state's (read: someone else's) job to educate their kids and that they have no part in it. I think the state has propogated that illusion. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result...

[Yukon Cornelius]

You can't fix the schools, least of all by throwing money at them. IIRC, private schools spend roughly half the $/student that public do, to much greater effect. The problem is the parents.

ah no we have gone around and around on this .. its is not true...

[Yukon Cornelius]

Yep, 'old school' families with a married (or just long-term committed) mom and dad and respectful kids, in the same house, are the key to any good society. And that is actually the heart of the problem right there....

well then u have to blame the 2 income families.. when did that all start anyway.. oh yah 1980's

[driveby]

My humble plan to fix this piggybacks a bit on Yo's ideas.

 

You have 3 basic types of students;

 

1. Smart, motivated, college bound

2. Not so smart, still a bit motivated, probably not college material

3. Losers, dummies, thugs, gang-bangers, rappers, drug dealers, ho's.

 

Beginning in the ninth grade you funnel the 1's into college prep, ie traditional High school. You funnel the 2's into vocational courses.

 

Starting in elementary school you create a special school "vertical", for the 3's to keep them segregated and don't allow them to pollute/contaminate the 1's and the 2's. Think of this school as a penal feeder system.

 

Unfortunately with all the inclusion nonsense and political correctness this will never happen. Too bad. We have to sacrifice the 3's to save the 1's and 2's.