Poker Hand for Discussion

[Big Country]

So, I was playing Friday Night. NL Hold Em, blinds are $2/$3.

 

Been at the table about an hour or so and have been run over by the deck early on. I have shown 3 hands (AA, QQ and JJ) and taken a few pots where I had decent hands and got no callers.

 

On this particular hand, I decide to mix it up a bit. There is one limper and I have the 52 of diamonds. I call. Button calls, SB calls and BB checks his option. $15 in the pot (well, 10 after they take the rake and jackpot, stupid California rooms reem the players). Flop comes A22. Checked to me and I lead out for $10. Only caller is the button. Turn is a 3 (heart as was the ace). I lead out for $25. My opponent pushes all in. He has about $190 total, so he is raising $160ish into an $80 pot.

 

I have him covered in chips.

 

What do you do in this situation?

[geeteebee]

He overbets the pot so I don't put him on AA, A2, 32 or 33. He is prolly puting you on a flush draw and doesn't want you to draw out on him. Maybe he decided to do the same thing you did with 54, got lucky and hit his straight but more than likely I put him on A(K-J, 3) of hearts (not the 3, obviously). If I am you, I believe I am ahead right now but that if a heart comes (not the 5) I am dead. You have to call $160 to win $240, not great, not horrible.

 

I call, but I also suck at poker.

[Bring Back Pat!!!]

So, I was playing Friday Night. NL Hold Em, blinds are $2/$3.

 

Been at the table about an hour or so and have been run over by the deck early on. I have shown 3 hands (AA, QQ and JJ) and taken a few pots where I had decent hands and got no callers.

 

On this particular hand, I decide to mix it up a bit. There is one limper and I have the 52 of diamonds. I call. Button calls, SB calls and BB checks his option. $15 in the pot (well, 10 after they take the rake and jackpot, stupid California rooms reem the players). Flop comes A22. Checked to me and I lead out for $10. Only caller is the button. Turn is a 3 (heart as was the ace). I lead out for $25. My opponent pushes all in. He has about $190 total, so he is raising $160ish into an $80 pot.

 

I have him covered in chips.

 

What do you do in this situation?

 

Seeing as he limp-called the flop, I'd put him on an Ace at that point. Not a huge A or he may have re-raised the flop, and not limped to begin with. Seeing as he Comes over the top of you with another small card on the turn, I'd still say something like A-10, or possibly A-3 and thinks he's good with his two pair. Now, seeing as he pushes it all in, then the 4-5 enters my mind. I guess he could have called the $10 with a gut shot if he put you on the Ace.

 

All that being said, I think I call here. If he's got the straight allready, you do have 3 outs for a chopped straight, 9 for a boat (3 5's, 3 A's, 3 3's) plus the case duece. You played the hand for a reason, and pretty much got what you wanted. If you don't call here, why play the hand at all?

Edited March 3, 2008 by Bring Back Pat!!!

[TimC]

I agree with Bring Back Pat. A-9ish is my call here. I call.

 

That's why you don't funk around (outside of Daniel Negrauneu) with 5-2, cause even if you hit, sometimes you're toast.

[jaxfactor]

Personally I call, but knowing my luck, he does indeed have the 4-5.

 

 

So what happened?

[wildcat2334]

well, you have obviously walked into a Gus Hansen-esque 45 on the button............

 

 

- insta call and hope he isn't turning over pocket 3's. Cant see anyone limping on the buton with AA -

 

 

I think dis villain turns over 33 or 45

[Easy n Dirty]

Seeing as he limp-called the flop, I'd put him on an Ace at that point. Not a huge A or he may have re-raised the flop, and not limped to begin with. Seeing as he Comes over the top of you with another small card on the turn, I'd still say something like A-10, or possibly A-3 and thinks he's good with his two pair. Now, seeing as he pushes it all in, then the 4-5 enters my mind. I guess he could have called the $10 with a gut shot if he put you on the Ace.

 

All that being said, I think I call here. If he's got the straight allready, you do have 3 outs for a chopped straight, 9 for a boat (3 5's, 3 A's, 3 3's) plus the case duece. You played the hand for a reason, and pretty much got what you wanted. If you don't call here, why play the hand at all?

 

I like this response. I'd have alot of trouble throwing away the 2-5 here, I think I'd make a nervous call.

 

I'm most worried about 3-3 here I think, a call with 4-5 pre-flop seems unlikely, although maybe if they're suited, on the button, with three limpers in front...yeah, it's certainly possible.

 

I assume no read on the button since you didn't provide any info there - be nice to have some sort of read on the guy, esp. to know if he's capable of bluffing here, or does he tend to overprotect at times, which he may be doing here. Absent any of that... I call.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Easy n Dirty

[TheShiznit]

So, I was playing Friday Night. NL Hold Em, blinds are $2/$3.

 

Been at the table about an hour or so and have been run over by the deck early on. I have shown 3 hands (AA, QQ and JJ) and taken a few pots where I had decent hands and got no callers.

 

On this particular hand, I decide to mix it up a bit. There is one limper and I have the 52 of diamonds. I call. Button calls, SB calls and BB checks his option. $15 in the pot (well, 10 after they take the rake and jackpot, stupid California rooms reem the players). Flop comes A22. Checked to me and I lead out for $10. Only caller is the button. Turn is a 3 (heart as was the ace). I lead out for $25. My opponent pushes all in. He has about $190 total, so he is raising $160ish into an $80 pot.

 

I have him covered in chips.

 

What do you do in this situation?

 

Obviously you have to be afraid of the pocket aces....a boat is not your friend here. I would put him on a flush draw at best(worst for you) or a straight draw at worst(best for you)...or possibly both. He could also have and Ace with a high kicker and doesn't think anyone would have a two and still say in...remember you are shaking things up. I say I would put him all in. I think he has a flush draw....I won't like watching the river...but the odds are in your favor. I would absolutely hate to see an ace on the river....YUK.

[Big Country]

Let me give you info on the player before I give hand results, to see if that affects any of your opinions on what to do.

 

As noted above, I had been at the table about an hour, and this particular player sat down maybe 12-15 hands ago. He doubled up pretty much right away in a straight vs. set scenario, so no real information to gleen from that. Hand played out as would be expected. Other than that, he has not done much at the table, IIRC, he had only seen 3 other flops (2 while in unraised in the blind situations) but had not shown anything down.

 

His posture, hand positioning and general demeanor gave off the sense that he felt he was strong, but as it was early in the session, I did not have information to tie those generic tells to how he actually played.

[TimC]

Is grabbing your chips off the table and screaming like a little girl to stop the pain an option?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because I sense you were toast...with butter.

Edited March 3, 2008 by TimC

[jaxfactor]

Let me give you info on the player before I give hand results, to see if that affects any of your opinions on what to do.

 

As noted above, I had been at the table about an hour, and this particular player sat down maybe 12-15 hands ago. He doubled up pretty much right away in a straight vs. set scenario, so no real information to gleen from that. Hand played out as would be expected. Other than that, he has not done much at the table, IIRC, he had only seen 3 other flops (2 while in unraised in the blind situations) but had not shown anything down.

 

His posture, hand positioning and general demeanor gave off the sense that he felt he was strong, but as it was early in the session, I did not have information to tie those generic tells to how he actually played.

 

He hit something on the turn. I'm now very afraid he has pocket 3's. But still hard for me to lay down a set here.

[TheShiznit]

He hit something on the turn. I'm now very afraid he has pocket 3's. But still hard for me to lay down a set here.

 

I don't see it. He doesn't have 33. I am still going with an ace and something else as option one, flush as option 2. I call here and hope not to see an ace or a heart. I can't see anything that suggest pocket 3's.

 

As an aside, he could have A-2...know that sucks for you.......that I could see...in which case you have to rule that statistically improbable and call anyway.

Edited March 3, 2008 by TheShiznit

[Grits and Shins]

 

With the button the range of hands that a player will limp in on can be pretty wide. I tend to think with a stronger hand that the button is likely to raise with 2 limpers in front of him and 2 to act behind him ... the more in the hand the better the odds he gets out flopped by a weaker hand. Unless of course the button is willing to risk a bad flop in an attempt to "trap" the other players.

 

So I'm guessing that he is either playiing ace rag, small connectors ... possibly a small pair. He checked the flop and flat called your bet ... this still smells like a hand on a draw to me at this point ... that or he has ace rag and is concerned that you have an ace with a bigger kicker.

 

The three comes on the turn and he re-raises your $25 with an over-sized bet. The first thought that occurs to me is that he has A-3. It is possible that he has 4-5 and is trying to protect his hand from a boat. It seems to me that the only way the hearts come in to play is if he has something OTHER than A-3 or suited 4-5 in hearts. So is he playing 2 pairs or did he stay in for a gut shot straight draw? I just can't put him on 3-3.

 

I call. If he was pulling for his gut shot straight draw and beat then so be it. If he has been playing a pair of wired threes ... so be it.

[zmanzzzz]

he's got pocket 3s.

[Azazello1313]

So, I was playing Friday Night. NL Hold Em, blinds are $2/$3.

 

Been at the table about an hour or so and have been run over by the deck early on. I have shown 3 hands (AA, QQ and JJ) and taken a few pots where I had decent hands and got no callers.

 

On this particular hand, I decide to mix it up a bit. There is one limper and I have the 52 of diamonds. I call. Button calls, SB calls and BB checks his option. $15 in the pot (well, 10 after they take the rake and jackpot, stupid California rooms reem the players). Flop comes A22. Checked to me and I lead out for $10. Only caller is the button. Turn is a 3 (heart as was the ace). I lead out for $25. My opponent pushes all in. He has about $190 total, so he is raising $160ish into an $80 pot.

 

I have him covered in chips.

 

What do you do in this situation?

 

you gotta call, don't you? seems like a no brainer. i'm guessing this ends with him turning over 4-5, and the schmuck called a pot sized bet with an inside straight draw.

[TheShiznit]

I am dying to know....what did the guy have...and how much did you rake in???!!!!!!

[Furd]

When you bet after the flop, you could have had anything. You have to assume that the caller has an A or 2 or a draw (3-4) - maybe a mid/small pair. I think that, if he has the Ace or mid/small pair, he would have raised you. By just calling, I'd put him on the straight draw or slow playing his trips.

 

The three hits and he pushes his chips in. That suggests to me that he has a 2 (and likely a higher kicker) or he made 2 pair, and is now afraid of the flush. Which one?

 

I don't know. It depends on the gut.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Furd

[Furd]

I'll go out on a limb and guess that you called and he had the 7-2 of clubs.

 

Edit: Nope, you posted this, so he was a dumbass and was holding 4-5.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Furd

[zmanzzzz]

I am dying to know....what did the guy have...and how much did you rake in???!!!!!!

 

TELL US!!!!

[Big Country]

So, here is how the hand played out.

 

It is $160 to me with approx. $240 in the pot, so I am getting laid about 1.5 to 1 on the call.

 

My first thought was that any hand that beats me wouldn't push here. But then I started thinking a bit more. I had only shown premium hands and had only led out with good holdings, which this player had seen, so I figured he had to have something strong here. With him limping from the button, his range is pretty much wide open. HE could have just an ace, he could have a bigger deuce, he could have threes he could have 45. As I hadn't played with him that much, I couldn't put him on a pair under the ace, though I suppose a could of big hearts was possible, but I discounted that possibility because of the coordinated paired board.

 

I then thought what would maximize my return long term at the table. Calling this hand or possibly folding and showing the deuce, so that players would think I could be run over, thus inducing them to bluff at me.

 

In the end, after about a solid 4 minutes of thought, I actually laid the hand down, showing the deuce. Lotsof audible gasps and even a glare from the dealer (I was tipping good, the guy that got the pot gave a buck).

 

He did not show his hand but claimed to have a medium ace. In retrospect, I should have gone with my initial thought that no hand that beat me would push in this spot, but, the lay down did work out as I did get a few of the players to take shots at me with inferior hands so I made up what I potentially lost on that pot (assuming the river wouldn't have caused me to lose the hand) and then some, but still, in retrospect my initial reaction is what I should have stuck with.

 

It turns out that the player that pushed was little more than a shove monkey as it seemed his only play post flop was to push, and he did it on about 2/3rds of the hands he was involved in with very marginal holdings. Had I been at the table a little longer with him and seen these other hands, it would have been an extremely easy call and hopefully the poker gods would not have smited me.

[zmanzzzz]

[Furd]

Gasps?

 

Laying it down seems like a reasonable play to me.

[Big Country]

 

Thread wasn't for some exciting finish, I wanted to get a line on my thought process and see how others viewed the situation.

[wildcat2334]

Gasps?

 

Laying it down seems like a reasonable play to me.

 

 

disagree. After reading alot of poker posts by BC was actually shocked he did lay it down.

 

we all play our own hands but that is a no-brainer call for me.

 

Spots like this is where you need to make yer money

[Bring Back Pat!!!]

So, here is how the hand played out.

 

It is $160 to me with approx. $240 in the pot, so I am getting laid about 1.5 to 1 on the call.

 

My first thought was that any hand that beats me wouldn't push here. But then I started thinking a bit more. I had only shown premium hands and had only led out with good holdings, which this player had seen, so I figured he had to have something strong here. With him limping from the button, his range is pretty much wide open. HE could have just an ace, he could have a bigger deuce, he could have threes he could have 45. As I hadn't played with him that much, I couldn't put him on a pair under the ace, though I suppose a could of big hearts was possible, but I discounted that possibility because of the coordinated paired board.

 

I then thought what would maximize my return long term at the table. Calling this hand or possibly folding and showing the deuce, so that players would think I could be run over, thus inducing them to bluff at me.

 

In the end, after about a solid 4 minutes of thought, I actually laid the hand down, showing the deuce. Lotsof audible gasps and even a glare from the dealer (I was tipping good, the guy that got the pot gave a buck).

 

He did not show his hand but claimed to have a medium ace. In retrospect, I should have gone with my initial thought that no hand that beat me would push in this spot, but, the lay down did work out as I did get a few of the players to take shots at me with inferior hands so I made up what I potentially lost on that pot (assuming the river wouldn't have caused me to lose the hand) and then some, but still, in retrospect my initial reaction is what I should have stuck with.

 

It turns out that the player that pushed was little more than a shove monkey as it seemed his only play post flop was to push, and he did it on about 2/3rds of the hands he was involved in with very marginal holdings. Had I been at the table a little longer with him and seen these other hands, it would have been an extremely easy call and hopefully the poker gods would not have smited me.

 

I can't really argue too much with your reasoning, since you didn't quite realize yet that he was an overly aggressive pusher. If this hand happens a half hour later, I assume you're calling?

 

I go back to my point earlier, however. You said you had been tight, and had decided to change it up a bit by playing the 52 in the first place. Beside flopping a straight or a flush (which could be out-drawn anyway), what more were you hoping to see than an A22 board? To me, that's the ideal flop for playing that hand. Limpers often are playing their medium aces because they can't lay hands down. Even if it was a big Ace, you're still way ahead. It's like flopping bottom set. It is very easily disguised, and pays off most of the time, often against top pair/top kicker. In a situation like you faced, I call, if for nothing else than to show your change up. Even if he had the straight, or a boat, you show down a 52, and the next time you lead out at a dangerous board like that, it will be remembered. But that's just me.

 

You made your money by using the lay down to your advantage, but I would have rather the table see my 52 then to see me make that lay down. The problem is with having a rep of being able to be run over, you need to have the cards at the right time to take advantage of it. If you call there and show you can play rags, you can make moves by bluffing later and get paid without having the cards to back it up.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Bring Back Pat!!!