Construction Foundation Question

[whomper]

Yesterday we had the house inspection for the couple that I sold the house to a few weeks back. The inspector goes throught the whole house with a fine toothed comb which was great. He gave eveything a hugh thumbs up and then we hit the basement . We knew the basement was potentially an issue because the house is 110 years old and they renovated everything from the first floor up. So everything is pretty much checking out (Furnace/ Floor Joists/ no water damage etc) So the walls are all brick down there. The inspector got his screw driver out and was poking in between the bricks and scraping the walls and it was somewhat brittle. The Bricks and Field stones themselves were for the most part very solid and not chipping away at all. It was just the inside material between the bricks that scraped out fairly easy .

 

The inspector said the fact that the walls were not bowing at all and that none of the bricks were popping out at all was a good sign but in his opinion we should have the foundation inspected by a Mason/Foundation inspector before we buy the house. We are in the process of finding one now. I agree with him completely especially since the couple I am working with are also friends of mine and I dont want them to have problems down the line. I wouldnt want anyone I am selling to to buy without peace of mind and the opinions of qualified inspectors. The inspector said this could be totally fine and may have been like this for 25 years for all he knows.

 

I mentioned this to my Dad who is a pretty handy guy. He said something could be done which I believe he called "Pitching" which is when they scrape out the material inside the bricks and put reinforcing material in the cracks. Does anyone know what that generally costs? The basement is probably 30 X 20. I am not sure if this is necessary or if it needs more than that. We will know as soon as the inspector comes. I just wanted to get the opinions of the contruction people on here or anyone that may have experience with this. I know its hard without seeing it but any info you can offer up would be helpful. Thanks.

Edited August 24, 2008 by whomper

[darin3]

Not sure about basements, but a foundation inspection is pretty common in real estate transactions.

 

Centex is the company we used and that I would recommend to anyone in the central Texas area. They also have a tool on their main page where you can pop your ZIP code in and get a referral. Maybe that'll help ya?

[Perchoutofwater]

We rarely have basements or below grade rooms or floors etc.. in this part of the country, and when we do we always use concrete foundation walls with french drains and dampproofing, but that is in this area. So, I'm hardly an expert in what you are looking at. I do know that with both concrete and mortar, there compression stength continues to get strong with age. After a certain point thier tensil strength will start to weaken some. If the walls are over 100 years old, and are still plumb and do not have moisture problems, then there is apparently very little hydrostatic preasure, so moret than likely it is nothing to worry about. Having said that the cost to get an expert to inspect it is realitvely low, and probably worth it for peace of mind if nothing else.

[Cyclones]

20x30? So the outside square footage of the house is only 600 sq feet? That's a master bedroom where I come from.............

[Footballjoe]

20x30? So the outside square footage of the house is only 600 sq feet? That's a master bedroom where I come from.............

 

Some homes only have partial basements.

[SteelBunz]

Hmmmmm Whomp. I think "pitching" is where they hot mop a tar onto the surface to waterproof. While that might waterproof the inside of the basement...it won't stop deterioration of the mortar from outside water. Unless your Dad is talking about digging down around the outside of the foundation and having that sort of waterproofing done. Two layers of fabric with a tar and a drainboard, then a french drain at the bottom that ties into the weeping system. New construction does that.....but to do it on a 110 yr old house would be costly. Not to mention a huge mess and loss of landscaping.

 

Digging out loose mortar from brick and recementing/remortaring is "tuck pointing". With large field stones it would probably be more commonly known as chinking. This would be done on the inside of the basement. And if that's all you need and not a reinforced foundation...I don't think a job like that would be too much money. Maybe a couple thousand (but don't quote me on that....lol). Masons command a sort of high price per hour....and rightfully so. I've seen them get about $600 just to redo a brick chimney. Again..it's a nice maintenance thing to do and will extend the life of the foundation.....but it isn't a waterproofing of the foundation itself.

 

But honestly....it doesn't sound like you have a water infiltration problem at all. Sounds like you just have a 100+ yr old foundation that just needs some upkeep. Your mortar deterioration seems rather minor for the age. If the walls are plumb and sound.....just the tuck pointing and chinking should be just fine! Get 3 or 4 estimates....and find a good mason/foundation expert.

 

My $0.02 worth.

[Cyclones]

Some homes only have partial basements.

 

Ahhhhhhh, got it. I've had several homes with basements, and they have always been the same size as the house, as the house itself has been built on top of the basement foundation.

[Front Row]

Don't sweat it to much Whomp, that structure will out live the both of us. I would do the minimum necessary to make the inspectors happy . A reputable mason will prolly cost you a G or 2.

[whomper]

Hmmmmm Whomp. I think "pitching" is where they hot mop a tar onto the surface to waterproof. While that might waterproof the inside of the basement...it won't stop deterioration of the mortar from outside water. Unless your Dad is talking about digging down around the outside of the foundation and having that sort of waterproofing done. Two layers of fabric with a tar and a drainboard, then a french drain at the bottom that ties into the weeping system. New construction does that.....but to do it on a 110 yr old house would be costly. Not to mention a huge mess and loss of landscaping.

 

Digging out loose mortar from brick and recementing/remortaring is "tuck pointing". With large field stones it would probably be more commonly known as chinking. This would be done on the inside of the basement. And if that's all you need and not a reinforced foundation...I don't think a job like that would be too much money. Maybe a couple thousand (but don't quote me on that....lol). Masons command a sort of high price per hour....and rightfully so. I've seen them get about $600 just to redo a brick chimney. Again..it's a nice maintenance thing to do and will extend the life of the foundation.....but it isn't a waterproofing of the foundation itself.

 

But honestly....it doesn't sound like you have a water infiltration problem at all. Sounds like you just have a 100+ yr old foundation that just needs some upkeep. Your mortar deterioration seems rather minor for the age. If the walls are plumb and sound.....just the tuck pointing and chinking should be just fine! Get 3 or 4 estimates....and find a good mason/foundation expert.

 

My $0.02 worth.

 

 

Thats exactly what my Dad said. Not pitching Thanks Bunz Et al . Good stuff in here

[whomper]

The inspection is set for tomorrow. Without seeing it the inspector told my client that since the walls werent bowing or concave he felt most likely that if anything needed to be done it would be the "Pointing" that Bunz mentioned. Otherwise known as pitching to those of us that dont know what the hell we are talking about But obviously he said he couldnt determine until he saw it .Ill keep you posted. Thanks again

Edited August 26, 2008 by whomper

[whomper]

The inspection went great. They guy said he would recommend the pointing get done within the next 3 years but as precaution. He said the foundation was fine. My people have peace of mind and the mortgage commitment is practically in hand. As long as Title search doesnt reveal anything bad it looks like this deal goes down on or around 10/10. Thanks for the info in this thread

[nuke'em ttg]

Bunz nailed it as usual you talk to a block dude about this and they always say "it's been here 110 years where's it gonna f'n go" that foundation will be fine, if doors upstairs weren't closing right then you'd have some settling and that could even be fixed by jackin a beam or then ya go ahead and do an Underpin where ya jack the whole house up/tear out the old and lay new block, it's alot of fun

[nickspicks]

Perfect response Steel. Tuck pointing is the correct term. It appears from what I read here that age has made the mortar deteriorate. I would also investigate the exterior joints because they would have used the same material on the outside as the inside.