bushwacked Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I firmly believe that putting together a half-assed bill in a short amount of time will do far more damage than help. Take the extra time and put together something of substance and meaning. But then again everyone just wants to do things fast now-a-days, no one really cares about the consequences of undirected speed. A lot of economists are saying something this drastic should have been some time ago and an imperfect bill right away is better than waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Given your track record on evaluating the New Deal, I would have to say that you just convinced me to vote for the bill (the house version of it, anyway) Not to mention that many a historian points to the massive hydroelectric damn construction along the Columbia as one or the biggest factor in why we won WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneymakers Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Jeffrey Immelt has been appointed to Obama economic team. Can payback to NBC be any more obvious. The trillion dollar bill is nothing but payback for support and votes. Can someone tell obama that the election is over and he doesn't have to go to Indiana for a ra ra campaign speech. The guy has been running for President for over 4 years now. and is still spilling the koolaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 What projects have they cut that still got designed and are ready to build? I don't want to speak outside of my area of knowledge so will stick to Montana. Other than the Montana Department of Transportation (MDT), which can pull some projects of the shelf as soon as funding is available, very few public infrastructure projects in our state are designed and ready to build if they don't already have funding. Projects simply don't get designed until there is funding, and the design process doesn't happen overnight. A project can be fast tracked, but it eats up the resources of an engineering firm and greatly limits the number of projects going out the door. Our firm does not work in that discipline, so I cannot give you a definite answer. However, if plans are not in place and design is mostly complete, it would take anywhere from 2 to 5 years to break ground depending upon the complexity of the project, IMHO. I don't have details right now but there are several states that are threatening to lay off workers because they have balanced budget amendments to their individual constitutions. In those cases projects underway need to be put on hold. I can look up those states if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I don't have details right now but there are several states that are threatening to lay off workers because they have balanced budget amendments to their individual constitutions. In those cases projects underway need to be put on hold. I can look up those states if you like. Doesn't it seem like a quaint notion now about the Federal Balanced Budget amendment they tried passing awhile back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Can someone tell obama that the election is over and he doesn't have to go to Indiana for a ra ra campaign speech.The guy has been running for President for over 4 years now. and is still spilling the koolaid. Unlike Bush Obama wants to represent the whole country, not just those who voted for him. I wouldn't mind a debate on policy even though the election's over. Who would represent the republican party? Doesn't it seem like a quaint notion now about the Federal Balanced Budget amendment they tried passing awhile back? It sure does now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Unlike Bush Obama wants to represent the whole country, not just those who voted for him. In one of my 'research briefs' I receive each day, the analyst said that if the entire stimulus package was focused on six states (CA, AZ, NV, FL, MI and OH) then the rest of the country would be 'saved' ... but by spreading it around to parts of the country that don't really need the help now that it's doomed to failure. This is something I've thought in passing, but hadn't seen anyone (including me) put it on paper until today. ...I still think that refinancing all the performing residential real estate loans at lower rates is the correct first step... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 In one of my 'research briefs' I receive each day, the analyst said that if the entire stimulus package was focused on six states (CA, AZ, NV, FL, MI and OH) then the rest of the country would be 'saved' ... but by spreading it around to parts of the country that don't really need the help now that it's doomed to failure. This is something I've thought in passing, but hadn't seen anyone (including me) put it on paper until today. ...I still think that refinancing all the performing residential real estate loans at lower rates is the correct first step... Show me the money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I still think the best way through this is to eliminate complexity. The best way to do this is to facilitate a refinancing of all performing residential mortgages at lower rates. Even better would be a move to requring banks to finance mortgages like they do in Europe (where a bank will issue bonds with a specific pool of mortgages as collateral for the bond issuance, this way a single bank controls the entire credit, rather than multiple investors and banks (including some outside the US) controlling pieces of the mortgage). I voted NO simply because I believe there is a better and simpler way. you must subscribe to bill gross' newsletter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I don't have details right now but there are several states that are threatening to lay off workers because they have balanced budget amendments to their individual constitutions. In those cases projects underway need to be put on hold. I can look up those states if you like. Some of the money going to states may prevent state employees from being laid off. However, that will not result in currently unfunded infrastructure projects being suddenly ready to go or create in new jobs, public or private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 +1 Commercial construction is usually one of the last areas hit by a recession. The reason, is funds are set aside early prior to plans being developed, and the development of large projects usually take 18 months or longer. Right now we are as busy as we have ever been as are most of the road crews in the state of Texas. Our problem will come in around 0ctober or November of 2010 when the backlog is worked off and no new projects are designed. Any money sent to infrastructure or for that money schools for construction will not stimulate the economy, as most commercial construction is still booming, and will be for the next 18 months or so. It is after that, that anything done now might help, but it wont be an immediate impact. Basically it might keep things from getting worse if money is allocated to these projects, but it really isn't going to do much of anything to make things better. While you're right about commercial construction lagging downturns and upturns by 12 to 18 months, I think there's spare capacity that could be harnessed much quicker than 18 months out. We are definitely looking at 2010 and 2011 with trepidation and we have some aces in our portfolio that other firms don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Given your track record on evaluating the New Deal, I would have to say that you just convinced me to vote for the bill (the house version of it, anyway) first thing that popped into my head also.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerx Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) Question: If this poll is indicative of the way most Americans feel, and by all other polls it is, why does it feel as though the politicians are not even listening to us Americans? SERIOUSLY! I feel like all we are hearing back is ....ECHO, ECHO,ECHO, EHco, Echo, echo...... Edited February 9, 2009 by millerx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Question: If this poll is indicative of the way most Americans feel, and by all other polls it is, why does it feel as though the politicians are not even listening to us Americans? SERIOUSLY! I feel like all we are hearing back is ....ECHO, ECHO,ECHO, EHco, Echo, echo...... Screw the public... I just wish the politicians would listen to the freaking economists about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Question: If this poll is indicative of the way most Americans feel, and by all other polls it is, why does it feel as though the politicians are not even listening to us Americans? SERIOUSLY! I feel like all we are hearing back is ....ECHO, ECHO,ECHO, EHco, Echo, echo...... why would the choose now t listen to the public... they haven't for as far back as the early 1970's....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) why would the choose now t listen to the public... they haven't for as far back as the early 1970's....... "Change you can believe in," ring a bell? Edited February 9, 2009 by wirehairman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Screw the public... I just wish the politicians would listen to the freaking economists about this. Wiegie is funny. You put 50 economists in one room and you'll get 49 different opinions and one dead body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) Wiegie is funny. You put 50 economists in one room and you'll get 49 different opinions and one dead body. TimC is wise. Well, at least about the dead body part. Edited February 10, 2009 by wiegie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 you must subscribe to bill gross' newsletter Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I voted "Yes", but had resevations, needed more options. My : I know nothing about finances whether on a national, state, local, or personal level. I wager to say most here (as someone else said) have a similar lack of real economic knowledge as I, exception for wiegie who has a degree in it. Your opinions are based on politics, party loyalty, prejudices, etc. That being said I say give the current admin a break! Their first task is to undo what our previous Prez did (Sorry, but GW put us here!) for short gains, as he had 8 years to bring us to this point and the current admin is trying to undo it in weeks. Not fair, but that is politics in our country. A situation that has eroded the original intents of our founding fathers. The current admin's second task is to infuse a shot of penicillin into this economy, that is to hopefully provide a remedy to slow or economic decline. I will admit that I have more questions than answers. I don't know how to fix this economy, but here is what HAS TO BE FIXED: We have to start making things again. MANUFACTURING HERE IS PARAMOUNT! W/O it we are 3rd world! We need to control the major corps from using this bad economy as an excuse. We need to keep big business on the "up and up". (Citibank (I think) buying a $55mil personal Jet after getting a bail out!??) If Corps are gonna cry POOR...then make them adhere to austerity budgets. (Who bought all the sky boxes in the SB??) Bush got us in this (No one can argue that) and party lines aside, let Obama do his best to right it. If he can't we're in deep dodo. Give him a chance. Rant over, but God Bless us all and hope/pray for the best for the BEST country on earth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Bush got us in this Yep, here is the excuse for the next 4 years. Sad really. Support your local unions, they are getting billions and billions outa this trash bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I think confidence is the big problem overall. People are afraid to spend thier money. No one is buying a new car. No one is looking at a new house as they don't know when we will hit rock bottom. I think the best thing that Obama and this admin can do is make us confindent enough to spend some of our money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Wow we have a president who can answer multi part questions. It's been awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Yep, here is the excuse for the next 4 years. Sad really. Support your local unions, they are getting billions and billions outa this trash bill. Not sad...not an excuse it's a fact. Live w/ it! Bush was a Prez for 8 years. He's done but his economy is what we must deal with NOW, so Obama has to clean it up. All Facts, not opinions! Come on man....even your Hero Limbaugh mentality can deal w/ that!??? No??? Jeebus.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Not sad...not an excuse it's a fact. Live w/ it! Bush was a Prez for 8 years. He's done but his economy is what we must deal with NOW, so Obama has to clean it up. All Facts, not opinions! Come on man....even your Hero Limbaugh mentality can deal w/ that!??? No??? Jeebus.... We've had a liberal congress for two years. Bush bears some of the blame, more for not vetoing the crap legislation that came across his desk than anything else. Let's also not forget who supposed to be be regulating Freddie and Fannie, and who was getting money from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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