Job losses HUGH again

[Big John]

good information here (where are you?)

Montana

[Perchoutofwater]

Our firm has 30+ projects that might qualify for some stimulus funding. However, we have the manpower to push approximately 5 or 6 of these projects within the stimulus guidelines, and each of these projects would likely have got built in the next year regardless of the stimulus money being available or not. We'll be able to save residents of these communities a buck or two on their water or sewer bill each month because of the additional stimulus funding. That is the entire impact of the stimulus money. No new jobs . . No unexpected projects breaking ground . . .

 

How much more are these projects going to cost due to change orders because their design was rushed, than they would have if an appropriate amount of time was given to planning and reviewing documents?

[Perchoutofwater]

You can also tell that part of my income isn't paid by a right-wing think tank. (Nor is it paid by a left-wing think tank either.) (In fact, I don't get any money from any d@mn think tank.) I need to sell out to somebody. Right-wing think tanks provide more money because their backers are rich.

 

THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THESE PROBLEMS IS TO CUT TAXES AND CUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING!!!

 

 

You are in education, so you are intrinsically left leaning. Oh, and sorry if I was a little short earlier.

[Savage Beatings]

That's because many of you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Yes, you have all of the answers. All I have are my own eyes. Forgive me if I trust them.

[Cunning Runt]

You're going to blame that on Reagan? You might want to look at the unions that artificially inflated the price of labor for years.

 

On that we agree.

 

There's no question this is one of the things that has led to so many jobs leaving this country.

 

On the Obama thing - I'm anything but a nut-hugger where he's concerned. I just don't think it's right to blame the guy when he inherited these problems. Sucks to be the one to have the unenviable task of trying to right the ship, but that's what he signed up for.

 

And the markets have reacted adversely - yes, but I would suggest that the markets would react adversely almost no matter what was put forth and by who. We're treading on virgin territory with this one and no one knows the solution. If they did, I feel quite comfortbale saying that it would have been put to use. The markets react they way they have because they frankly don't know if it's going to work or not. The market is trading on fear right now and it's feeding off of itself.

[BillyBalata]

Our plant laid off 35 people this week. That's about 10% of the work force. I'd say over 50 total have been let go since the beginning of the year.

[i_am_the_swammi]

if the check card program becomes a reality, it could push many businesses over the top. IN our industry, most believe it will add about 30% to labor cost. In today's enviorment, that will likley force many hotels face foreclosure, as they are doing everything possible today to break even. Imagine almost every restaurant/hotel/service company moving to unionization. it would shred their paper-thin margins.

 

Per my note above, there was an article today in hotel-Online that should open some eyes:

 

Huge Job Losses expected if Check Card Bill Passes

 

Some snippets:

 

1. According to the study, An Empirical Assessment of the Employee Free Choice Act: The Economic Implications, every 3 percentage points gained in union membership through card checks and mandatory arbitration will result in a 1 percentage point rise in the unemployment rate the following year.

 

2. The report finds conclusively that the unionization of 1.5 million existing jobs under EFCA in year one would lead to the loss of 600,000 jobs by the following year. Job losses directly attributed to the passage of the Employee Free Choice Act would be equal to the entire population of Boston, MA.

 

3. "Stewart Acuff, special assistant to AFL-CIO president John Sweeney, said the 428,000 new members last year is just a small portion of what unions could recruit if the card-check bill passes." (Union membership rises for second straight year, Associated Press," January 28, 2009)

 

4. EFCA would help achieve organized labor's goal of increasing dues-paying members at the cost to the U.S. Economy and, ironically, jobs," said Philip A. Miscimarra of Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP, and counsel to the Alliance to Save Main Street Jobs. "This research shows EFCA would promote a surge in job losses and stifled job creation. These are terrible problems at any time, but devastating in today's economic environment."

[wiegie]

Oh, and sorry if I was a little short earlier.

no problem, I am a little short all of the time (it never occured to me that I needed to apologize to anyone for it though.... but as I think about it, I guess midgets do scare some people)

[Cunning Runt]

no problem, I am a little short all of the time (it never occured to me that I needed to apologize to anyone for it though.... but as I think about it, I guess midgets do scare some people)

 

Especially if dressed as a clown.

 

That's a downright terrifying thought.

[Randall]

Per my note above, there was an article today in hotel-Online that should open some eyes:

 

Huge Job Losses expected if Check Card Bill Passes

 

Some snippets:

 

1. According to the study, An Empirical Assessment of the Employee Free Choice Act: The Economic Implications, every 3 percentage points gained in union membership through card checks and mandatory arbitration will result in a 1 percentage point rise in the unemployment rate the following year.

 

2. The report finds conclusively that the unionization of 1.5 million existing jobs under EFCA in year one would lead to the loss of 600,000 jobs by the following year. Job losses directly attributed to the passage of the Employee Free Choice Act would be equal to the entire population of Boston, MA.

 

3. "Stewart Acuff, special assistant to AFL-CIO president John Sweeney, said the 428,000 new members last year is just a small portion of what unions could recruit if the card-check bill passes." (Union membership rises for second straight year, Associated Press," January 28, 2009)

 

4. EFCA would help achieve organized labor's goal of increasing dues-paying members at the cost to the U.S. Economy and, ironically, jobs," said Philip A. Miscimarra of Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP, and counsel to the Alliance to Save Main Street Jobs. "This research shows EFCA would promote a surge in job losses and stifled job creation. These are terrible problems at any time, but devastating in today's economic environment."

 

This looks like desperation on the part of industry. How many workers would actually want a union? I believe if they do want one they should be able to form one.

 

Come on mandatory arbitration?

 

"Stewart Acuff, special assistant to AFL-CIO president John Sweeney, said the 428,000 new members last year is just a small portion of what unions could recruit..."

 

Could recruit? Well sure. I "could" make $10 million this year if I buy the right stocks too.

 

Looks like more scare tactics to me. If people want to form a corporation let them. If workers want to form a union let them too. I like a balanced playing field, some companies do not.

 

I think that lack of balance is one of the problems with our trade policies ike Nafta too. A lot of protections for corporations but far fewer for oversea workers making it harder for us to compete.

 

My opinion on the union fight that is going to get ugly.

[Jimmy Neutron]

THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THESE PROBLEMS IS TO CUT TAXES AND CUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING!!!

 

 

Per my note above, there was an article today in hotel-Online that should open some eyes:

 

Huge Job Losses expected if Check Card Bill Passes

 

Some snippets:

 

1. According to the study, An Empirical Assessment of the Employee Free Choice Act: The Economic Implications, every 3 percentage points gained in union membership through card checks and mandatory arbitration will result in a 1 percentage point rise in the unemployment rate the following year.

 

2. The report finds conclusively that the unionization of 1.5 million existing jobs under EFCA in year one would lead to the loss of 600,000 jobs by the following year. Job losses directly attributed to the passage of the Employee Free Choice Act would be equal to the entire population of Boston, MA.

 

3. "Stewart Acuff, special assistant to AFL-CIO president John Sweeney, said the 428,000 new members last year is just a small portion of what unions could recruit if the card-check bill passes." (Union membership rises for second straight year, Associated Press," January 28, 2009)

 

4. EFCA would help achieve organized labor's goal of increasing dues-paying members at the cost to the U.S. Economy and, ironically, jobs," said Philip A. Miscimarra of Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP, and counsel to the Alliance to Save Main Street Jobs. "This research shows EFCA would promote a surge in job losses and stifled job creation. These are terrible problems at any time, but devastating in today's economic environment."

 

If the employee free choice act is passed, at a minimum we'll see many businesses pack up and leave unionized areas for more friendly climates - other states or countries.

[Perchoutofwater]

 

 

 

If the employee free choice act is passed, at a minimum we'll see many businesses pack up and leave unionized areas for more friendly climates - other states or countries.

 

I'm lucky there isn't much of a union presence here. Between increased taxation, probable increased regulation coming from this administration, if my employees tried to unionize, I'd just shut the business down. That is just one more head ached I don't need. I think you will find a lot of other smaller business owners say the same. I understand why unions were formed but frankly there is no longer a need except to extort money from businesses. My feeling is if you don't like the job call me sily call me rude, but call me please and go work somewhere else.

[Yukon Cornelius]

i say we start another war that seems to always work??

[wirehairman]

How much more are these projects going to cost due to change orders because their design was rushed, than they would have if an appropriate amount of time was given to planning and reviewing documents?

 

I don't anticipate this scenario with the first wave of stimulus projects, as they need to be at the 80% or greater stage right now to even have a chance. Projects rushed to acquire any leftover monies may end up cutting some corners.

[Perchoutofwater]

I don't anticipate this scenario with the first wave of stimulus projects, as they need to be at the 80% or greater stage right now to even have a chance. Projects rushed to acquire any leftover monies may end up cutting some corners.

 

I just know how civil engineers work. They tend to confuse top of curb and top of pavement, which tends to make a drainage fun.

[budlitebrad]

You think your 401k is bad? You should see some of the writedowns from our PE/VC clients.

[Big John]

I just know how civil engineers work. They tend to confuse top of curb and top of pavement, which tends to make a drainage fun.

I have never seen or used top of curb elevations on road plans, but frequently use top of pavement elevations. It could be offset as the elevations are usually on the roadway centerline or other baseline. so edge of pavement and flowline elevations need to be computed, and can vary due to superelevations and pavement widenings.

[Perchoutofwater]

I have never seen or used top of curb elevations on road plans, but frequently use top of pavement elevations. It could be offset as the elevations are usually on the roadway centerline or other baseline. so edge of pavement and flowline elevations need to be computed, and can vary due to superelevations and pavement widenings.

 

I'm talking about for parking lots. I don't know the first thing about road construction and just assume keep it that way.

[Azazello1313]

I disagree and have given you a perfect example in health care waiting to see what Obama is going to be able push through. I'm not saying he is the only reason we are having problems in the real economy, but I'm saying he is a significant reason that the real economy is getting worse. His policies have a lot of business owners scared. If we could get a promise that he would stick to fixing the economy and not try to expand the role of government in our banking and health system I think you would see a lot of business owners having more optimistic outlooks.

 

which is EXACTLY why a lot of obama's "moderate" supporters -- like david brooks, david gergen, senator evan bayh -- are jumping off the bandwagon. there is a growing divide between the pragmatists and the partisan shills in obama's camp, and wiegie is making it pretty obvious where he falls in. while obama is making it clear his top priorities are spending future generations' money on things like health care, carbon taxes, and federalizing education -- fixing the financial system? well, we plan to announce a plan to work on a plan...but first thing's first, you can't waste a good crisis as an opportunity to grease the skids for your political agenda. the markets and the overall economy have taken notice.

[Yukon Cornelius]

which is EXACTLY why a lot of obama's "moderate" supporters -- like david brooks, david gergen, senator evan bayh -- are jumping off the bandwagon. there is a growing divide between the pragmatists and the partisan shills in obama's camp, and wiegie is making it pretty obvious where he falls in. while obama is making it clear his top priorities are spending future generations' money on things like health care, carbon taxes, and federalizing education -- fixing the financial system? well, we plan to announce a plan to work on a plan...but first thing's first, you can't waste a good crisis as an opportunity to grease the skids for your political agenda. the markets and the overall economy have taken notice.

yah spending future generations money on cable for iraq was a much better idea. who need health care or schools anyhoo.

[detlef]

Well, my wife was one of the 651K, unfortunately. She had a really good paying job, so it's gonna leave a mark. On the other hand, she hated it so, provided she ends up finding something, I'll gladly trade the reduction in jack she'll be bringing in for the increased sanity.

 

Also, the restaurant is still hanging tough. We're actually flat in month to month sales for the last 5 months and, well, flat is the new up.

 

We also pushed a bunch of money into a short term rainy day fund in case this might go down and our core cost of living is actually pretty low. So, until she finds work, she's gonna be churning out veggies from the garden. I suppose our new and improved veggie garden is officially now our depression garden.

[Azazello1313]

Well, my wife was one of the 651K, unfortunately. She had a really good paying job, so it's gonna leave a mark. On the other hand, she hated it so, provided she ends up finding something, I'll gladly trade the reduction in jack she'll be bringing in for the increased sanity.

 

Also, the restaurant is still hanging tough. We're actually flat in month to month sales for the last 5 months and, well, flat is the new up.

 

We also pushed a bunch of money into a short term rainy day fund in case this might go down and our core cost of living is actually pretty low. So, until she finds work, she's gonna be churning out veggies from the garden. I suppose our new and improved veggie garden is officially now our depression garden.

 

sorry to hear it. boy, these are turning into some very lean times in a hurry.

[detlef]

FWIW, I'm not an economist and, frankly have no idea what buttons should be pushed. I do, however, understand that many of the buttons that the GOP claim are the best ones don't have a great track record or simply don't make any real sense logically.

 

My favorite is trickle down. Cut taxes, especially at the top, and the rest takes care of itself. The logic, or rather lack thereof, astonishes me. I'm guessing that many of the people with money. At least those who have money and are in a position to actuate the change that trickle down implies got rich because they know when and how to invest their money. So, what is the reason to open a new factory? Because there's a thriving lower and middle class flush with money and looking to spend it on your goods? Or is it because you've got an extra 5% or so of your take home coming to you and burning a hole in your pocket but no increased demand for your goods? Seems like a pretty easy answer to me. Why is there any reason at all to believe that if we just let the top keep a bigger chunk of their take home, it will flow to everyone else?

 

I'll call their inclination to rush to exclaim that now is the time to do what they always want to do anyway a wash, because both sides do it. However, it is laughable to hear the GOP get their panties in a twist when we just lived through 6 years of having ill-conceived policies crammed down our throats because "there was no time to ponder, we had to throw caution to the wind! This is a time of crisis!" So let's just go ahead and do what the GOP would have loved to do anyway even if their was no crisis. Say, like drilling ANWAR or invading Iraq.

 

Which brings up another, very, very, very sore subject. You guys want to flip out about ACORN? Go ahead, 'cause I'm not a huge fan myself. However, I'll take 'em over freaking Halliburton and all that have been fleecing us blind in Iraq. At least this money is being spent here. It amazes me how quickly those who defend building nations other than our own, scrutinize the money being spent on our own. You want pork? Spend any amount of time researching the gross amounts wasted during this war and you'll find plenty of it. All being spent on a nation that will likely devolve into chaos whether we leave next week or 10 years from now.

 

I understand perch's frustration at the fact that his business is being held up by the fact that hospitals have cold feet. However, what if the entire system they're operating within is not sustainable? Sure, if the system was allowed to stay in place, you'd be building another hospital tomorrow. However, maybe that hospital would be built based on a flawed and unreal situation. Is it the obligation of the government to not rock the boat if that means perpetuating policies and systems that may be responsible for the issues at hand? Once again, I'm not in public policy and am not completely sure what is and what isn't broken. Nor do I know exactly why. However, as a businessman, I do know that it's never a bad time to fire someone who needs to be fired or change something that needs to be changed. Doing either can really suck in the short term but both beat the hell out of allowing something bad to fester even a day longer. Plenty of Americans feel much is broken in this country and that needs to be fixed. Maybe we're tired of band-aid policies.

[wiegie]

there is a growing divide between the pragmatists and the partisan shills in obama's camp, and wiegie is making it pretty obvious where he falls in.

I am?

[keggerz]

About a month prior to the election I bet someone on this board that if Obama was elected we would have 10% unemployment by the time the 2012 elections roll around. I'm afraid I'm going to win $100, I just hope the guy that I bet still has a job and can afford to pay me. Honestly I'd rather lose the bet, but I don't think I will.

 

 

At a public forum on September 30th I told the audience that we could hit double-digit unemployment. It's not about Obama (or McCain).

you beat me to it....this snowball was already starting down the slope