Perchoutofwater Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Ths is what Obama wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policyvote Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I don't know if you've noticed, but private health insurance sucks balls now. All this wonderful "free-market compeition" is making doctors and insurance carriers rich--and putting me in the poor house. If the American people are going to be the losers in a contest between doctors and insurance companies to see who can rip the other off more, bring me public health care and bring it to me NOW. Peace policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 A 2006 study in the journal Health Affairs concludes that around 17 cents of every dollar in relative reductions in Medicare payments to private hospitals are shifted onto private patients -- and that such cost-shifting accounts for fully 12.3% of the total increase in private payer prices between 1997 and 2001. This really popped out at me. While I've taken into consideration the affect of illegals, the destitute, and the irresponsible, I hadn't thought of the cost of Medicare to the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Obama isn't proposing to end private health insurance, and the op/ed reeks of typical scare tactics and bias. I think it's apparent the mainstream American opinion contradicts the Republican philosophy of doing nothing and letting the insurance companies and HMO's police themselves. I mean, it worked so well with the mortgage industry........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I'll read the article later, but health insurance is a very complex topic. In theory a larger insurance pool will lower costs for everyone, correct? I don't work in billing so I don't know the challenges they face in dealing with medicare. I do know that in either case, medicare or private insurance, you're dealing with an entity that will fight tooth and nail to pay only what they believe they need to pay. At least with medicare, or government insurance, you'd be cutting out the overhead. You wouldn't be paying CEO salaries etc. I don't know enough about the topic to come down clearly on either side (which i should know more of because that's the industry i'm in.) I do know that in general the industry doesn't want to see large scale changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 My wife and I are signing up for a HSA account ... I cannot believe I didn't do it sooner ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 My wife and I are signing up for a HSA account ... I cannot believe I didn't do it sooner ... It's a great retirement vehicle once you've exhausted all the other tax protected ones. Even better than a Roth because it's not taxed in or out as long as it's used on medical expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I don't know if you've noticed, but private health insurance sucks balls now. All this wonderful "free-market compeition" is making doctors and insurance carriers rich--and putting me in the poor house. If the American people are going to be the losers in a contest between doctors and insurance companies to see who can rip the other off more, bring me public health care and bring it to me NOW. Peace policy But becoming a CEO and raping Americans' wallets is the American Dream! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 I'll read the article later, but health insurance is a very complex topic. In theory a larger insurance pool will lower costs for everyone, correct? I don't work in billing so I don't know the challenges they face in dealing with medicare. I do know that in either case, medicare or private insurance, you're dealing with an entity that will fight tooth and nail to pay only what they believe they need to pay. At least with medicare, or government insurance, you'd be cutting out the overhead. You wouldn't be paying CEO salaries etc. I don't know enough about the topic to come down clearly on either side (which i should know more of because that's the industry i'm in.) I do know that in general the industry doesn't want to see large scale changes. I keep going back and forth on my stance regarding this. From a matter of principle I'm against government provided health care, as a matter of practicality, we already have socialized medicine, in that those of us that pay our premiums every month are paying crazy high rates to make up for those that are not insured. I really don't know what the best solution is, and what is fair to everyone. I'm afraid what is going to happen is the top 5% are going to be paying for everyone's health insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 My wife and I are signing up for a HSA account ... I cannot believe I didn't do it sooner ... I have an HSA account to go with our $5900 deductible. Clearly this isn't going to be the final answer to the Health care industry problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I don't know if you've noticed, but private health insurance sucks balls now. All this wonderful "free-market compeition" is making doctors and insurance carriers rich--and putting me in the poor house. If the American people are going to be the losers in a contest between doctors and insurance companies to see who can rip the other off more, bring me public health care and bring it to me NOW. Peace policy No kidding. They were fine with me until I went to the Mayo Clinic for a back problem that didn't improve. When they got the bill they cancelled my insurance leaving me with a $12,000 bill(and that was just for tests). People will always be able to get insurance. If a single payer bill passes it will be a safety net like Social Security. You will still be able to get private plans like you can with private pensions. They do in Canada. In addition we pay double what every other country does for health care. We can do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I will say I'm pretty happy with my insurance, but I think i'm probably in the minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 In addition we pay double what every other country does for health care. We can do better. The HSA guy I've been talking to about getting a policy with says the reason that health insurance is so high is because we, as a nation, are addicted to the $10-20 copay. We (as a nation) are extremely overmedicated as a result. Drug companies can market to us on TV so they can boost their top (and bottom) lines, essentially getting us to sign up for crap we (really) don't need. ...so, a hunk of our payments are really self-inflicted wounds... My current plan: $850 / month in premiums for the family $1000 deductable / person / yr $3000 deductable / family / yr 80/20 split on the next $15000 of cost 100/0 split on everything else ...total max annual out of pocket = (850 * 12) + 3000 + (20% * 15000) = 16,200...PLUS 100% of the co-pays... HSA plan: $275 / month in premium for the family $10,000 deductable / family / yr (co-pays go towards this amount) 100/0 split on everything over $10,000 $5950 / yr deposit possible into tax-advantaged account (which can be used to cover non-premium expenses); any amount left over rolls over into the next year, tax-free growth HSA covers tylenol, symptom-specific herbs and vitamins (a multi-vitamin is not covered, but herbs for my wifes' asthma are) and are paid with pre-tax money ...so, if the family only uses (say) $3000 of the deductable, our total health costs are ($275 * 12) + 3000 = 6300 ... VS ... the $10,200 I'm paying in premiums alone right now ... PLUS ... we roll forward any additional amounts paid into the HSA account (which, again, has a $5950 cap in contributions this year)... IF YOU ARE SELF-EMPLOYED, GET A HSA ACCOUNT. IF YOU OWN/RUN A COMPANY, GET HSA ACCOUNTS FOR YOUR EMPLOYEES, AND FUND THE FIRST YEAR OF THEIR HSA TAX-FREE ACCOUNT AND 1/2 OF THEIR HSA ACCOUNTS IN YEARS 2-5 (your total cost in year 1 will be equal to past years (generally) and will drop in future years ... plus healthy employees will have just received a pay raise) ... after that, they should be pretty nearly self-funding (i.e., never really at risk for using all of their tax free dough) for YEARS ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Even better than a Roth because it's not taxed in or out as long as it's used on medical expenses. Careful there: the contributions to an HSA, while excluded for federal income tax purposes, can nevertheless be includible in taxable income for state income tax purposes. That's the way it is in Cali, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I will say I'm pretty happy with my insurance, but I think i'm probably in the minority. On that note - I just learned that my cousin had her baby at home with a midwife because having a child in AZ is extremely expensive even with their employer provided insurance. She said it would have cost them $16k out of pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 On that note - I just learned that my cousin had her baby at home with a midwife because having a child in AZ is extremely expensive even with their employer provided insurance. She said it would have cost them $16k out of pocket. Youch We're having our second in about 6 weeks. Co-pay of $150 I think. That covers it. Of course there have been other small co-pays along the way (ultrasounds) of $15 a shot. When we had our first for some reason we were never even billed the delivery co-pay. I think it was $100 at the time. Again, I'm very thankful for our insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Youch We're having our second in about 6 weeks. Co-pay of $150 I think. That covers it. Of course there have been other small co-pays along the way (ultrasounds) of $15 a shot. When we had our first for some reason we were never even billed the delivery co-pay. I think it was $100 at the time. Again, I'm very thankful for our insurance. FWIW, you could get less expensive insurance and a higher salary ... essentially self insuring ... and you'd (probably) be better off net-net over time ... plus, have a pot of dough stashed aside for medical expenses (tax free in and tax free out) if you had a HSA plan instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 FWIW, you could get less expensive insurance and a higher salary ... essentially self insuring ... and you'd (probably) be better off net-net over time ... plus, have a pot of dough stashed aside for medical expenses (tax free in and tax free out) if you had a HSA plan instead. Atomic's line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) FWIW, you could get less expensive insurance and a higher salary ... essentially self insuring ... and you'd (probably) be better off net-net over time ... plus, have a pot of dough stashed aside for medical expenses (tax free in and tax free out) if you had a HSA plan instead. I did the math and we pay $3,200 premiums total a year for health, spam, and dental. I really don't think I could beat this. And I'm not exactly self employed to give myself a higher salary. Edit: p-h-a-r-m-a = spam? Nice filter. Edited April 14, 2009 by CaP'N GRuNGe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.