wiegie Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 The bottom line is that ... there will have to be rationing, uh, we already have rationing (it's currently done via a price-mechanism) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 But how is that possible when you consider that the medical turnstiles will be the same as they are now, only they will be clogged with more and more patients? The doctors that remain in this expanded system will be even more overwhelmed than we are now. I wouldn't want to be a patient when that happens. Here's a solution the good doctor wouldn't want to hear about--make it easier for people to become doctors rather than letting the AMA artificially create its own little cartel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 This is typical squawk radio head-in-the-sand thinking. If we just get rid of the illegals, all will be rainbows and fluffy bunnies. Well, it won't. The current Medicare entitlement starts too early and is unsustainable over the expected lifespan of an increasingly large population segment. Again, this is simple math - you don't need to go on the usual scapegoat hunt. Disclaimer - I believe illegals should be on a plane out within 24 hours, so please don't try and pin that liberal nonsense on me. But you are missing the much larger issue in your hunt for an easy target. On a side note, do you realize that any illegal about to be deported gets a full health checkup? That's right, even the gov't is guilty of brudening the taxpayer with medical care for illegals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 what do you suggest we do with Down's syndrome patients? Actually, I'd have no problem giving every American under 18 years old free national healthcare. No problem at all. Instead of trying to take care of the entire population for a lifetime, let's be reasonable and take care of them until adulthood. However, after 18 years old, it's time to take care of yourself....except in cases like Down's syndrome and other life cases. I believe they are rare enough that they wouldn't collapse the system and most Americans would be in favor of helping them for their entire lifetime, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 On a side note, do you realize that any illegal about to be deported gets a full health checkup? That's right, even the gov't is guilty of brudening the taxpayer with medical care for illegals. That is certainly a self-protection mechanism for the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Actually, I'd have no problem giving every American under 18 years old free national healthcare. No problem at all. Instead of trying to take care of the entire population for a lifetime, let's be reasonable and take care of them until adulthood. However, after 18 years old, it's time to take care of yourself....except in cases like Down's syndrome and other life cases. I believe they are rare enough that they wouldn't collapse the system and most Americans would be in favor of helping them for their entire lifetime, of course. Makes sense to me. I'd go along, provided that you throw everyone off the tit at 18 unless they are physically or mentally unable to work, and pay for their own insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Makes sense to me. I'd go along, provided that you throw everyone off the tit at 18 unless they are physically or mentally unable to work, and pay for their own insurance. By "pay for their own insurance" are you mandating all employers to provide a portion of it or are you expecting all 18 year olds to afford their own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 By "pay for their own insurance" are you mandating all employers to provide a portion of it or are you expecting all 18 year olds to afford their own? I would expect the 18 year old to pay for it. Insurance is cheap when you are young. If the employer pays for it, then in reality the employee is paying anyway through reduced wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 By "pay for their own insurance" are you mandating all employers to provide a portion of it or are you expecting all 18 year olds to afford their own? Either they pay for their own, get a job that does (like mine does), or simply gamble away their health to die on the streets. For this to work, we really have to start letting people that make bad and incorrect decisions in life suffer their fate. This applies to those that don't think insurance is important all the way to those that think investing in mortgage-back securities was smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Either they pay for their own, get a job that does (like mine does), or simply gamble away their health to die on the streets. For this to work, we really have to start letting people that make bad and incorrect decisions in life suffer their fate. This applies to those that don't think insurance is important all the way to those that think investing in mortgage-back securities was smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Euthenasia (a shot, IV drip or pillow over the face) = really bad idea ...however... Not signing your 97 year old, alzheimers-ridden, bed-pan using grampa up for more meds because he has a chest cold may not be a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Euthenasia (a shot, IV drip or pillow over the face) = really bad idea I'm not saying kill all the old people, but why can't it be an option when you are of sound mind (like the do not resuscitate rule)? I'd choose it in a second and I'll bet I could find a compassionate and understanding doctor to perform it if it were legal. It simply takes the burden off your family to pull the plug. What a horrible decision that must be and one made easier if you have something from the person on the plug to end his/her life in a peaceful and dignified manner. And it's better than letting nature take it's course sometimes IMO. Edited April 21, 2009 by TimC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I would expect the 18 year old to pay for it. Insurance is cheap when you are young. If the employer pays for it, then in reality the employee is paying anyway through reduced wages. Are you sure that health insurance is cheap for 18 year-olds? (For example, if a normal 18 year-old was self-employed and tried to go out and buy health insurance on his own, would it be cheap for him to do so?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Are you sure that health insurance is cheap for 18 year-olds? (For example, if a normal 18 year-old was self-employed and tried to go out and buy health insurance on his own, would it be cheap for him to do so?) Probably not cheap enough to afford working at McD's. You have to figure that most insurance plans average around $5000 - $7500 yearly in premiums. That's a pretty big nut to make on less than $10 an hour. If he's married with children then the cost could eat up to 25% of his annual salary. On the other side of the coin, there are some doctors who are now stepping away from the insurance trough entirely. It's almost like being self insured. They operate like a co-op where the member pays a monthly fee, say $30 and then pays cash for services rendered if they have to visit. It's a gamble though. If you have a traumatic injury and need to go to the emergency room, that's big dolla. For a young person just starting out though, it may be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I read a stat somewhere recently that 90% of american's health care expenses come in the last 3 months of life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Probably not cheap enough to afford working at McD's. Well that's all the jobs there are to be had in South Carolina. Thanks China! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Healthcare is going to be the next big thing to blow up on us. The current system is unsustainable and nobody seems to like the new ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Euthenasia (a shot, IV drip or pillow over the face) = really bad idea ...however... Not signing your 97 year old, alzheimers-ridden, bed-pan using grampa up for more meds because he has a chest cold may not be a bad idea. So, you're against letting someone who's quality of life has deteriorated completely to just end it but not against allowing that same person's quality of life to get so bad that they just die a slow death. Less slow, mind you, than it would be if you chased symptoms around but much slower than just saying goodbye and calling it a life. I mean, you made a pretty definitive statement, so you must have some good reason why someone can't end their life when they're good and ready to. After all, there are basically two arguments against suicide. One is that people fail to take into account the lives they effect and the other, I think, has something to do with the fact that you can't get into heaven if you off yourself. Well, #1 shouldn't matter if you're some old guy who's had a decent life and just doesn't want to eat from a tube for another 5 years and watch his loved ones weep at his bedside. Either you're loved ones understand or eff 'em if they don't. As for the second. Well, that only matters if you believe in heaven or, rather, are gullible enough to think that we actually know what it takes to get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I read a stat somewhere recently that 90% of american's health care expenses come in the last 3 months of life I can't verify the accuracy of that percentage, but I do recall hearing that a disproportionately large portion of health care costs come in the final months of life. Does it count if my source is a 'Scrubs' rerun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I can't verify the accuracy of that percentage, but I do recall hearing that a disproportionately large portion of health care costs come in the final months of life. Does it count if my source is a 'Scrubs' rerun? That's just as legitimate as many "news" sources around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 That's just as legitimate as many "news" sources around... .....especially in the Tailgate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 TV never lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I would expect the 18 year old to pay for it. Insurance is cheap when you are young. Sure it is. Until it comes down to deciding whether you pay for your insurance or put food on your kid's plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) I would expect the 18 year old to pay for it. Insurance is cheap when you are young. I'm morbidly curious what you regard as "cheap" for an 18 year old. ETA: I say this because young adults (18-to-24 years old) remained the least likely of any age group to have health insurance in 2007 – 28.1 percent of this group did not have health insurance. So perhaps it's not that cheap after all, at least not relative to what your average 18 year old makes after taxes. Edited April 22, 2009 by yo mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) 2 big issues are the problem... As Muck said, the $20.00 co-pay is garbage. We should have health insurance like car insurance. You pay the doctor visits and they pay the major stuff. Of course, if you are sicker, you pay more...just like a bad driver with car insurance. werd - I have alot of friends in healthcare - many of them make a nice living off all the broken system .....their solutions all share the same theme - accountability and motivation. Something along the lines of major health coverage for surgeries and serious issues, but have say the first 3-5k payable out of pocket. All these fat, unhealthy peeps in the US have zero motivation to take control of their own health with a $20 co pay and cheap scripts - Americans are lazy mf's and most of them need motivation, and nothing like good old fashioned loot to get them to get off the couch. I saw in UK a clinic tried focusing on patient health improvement as the focus instead of it being prescribing medication and billing - well guess what?? people got better and the clinic didn't make any money...... so they scrapped it JosB's using the ER for a cold is a problem no doubt, but plenty of peeps with insurance f*ck it up as well Edited April 22, 2009 by wildcat2334 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.