Need Advice

[Hat Trick]

Warning, Long story here.

 

As many of you know my dad and I own 360 acres in northern Missouri that has been in the family for generations. We farm the land, raise cattle and hunt/fish the land. We have always shared our place (hunting, fishing) with friends and family, generally friends and family that have been really close to us and have helped us with the many many projects and the hard work it is keeping up with such a large tract of property. I'd love to have more honestly. The hunting portion has always been some family members that like to help us manage our deer herd and put food in the freezer for themselves at the same time. My best friend has been hunting with me for about 6 years straight now after his dad sold 40 acres they had for hunting. Back when we were teenagers I invited him on some deer hunts, and called in some turkeys for him and let him shoot., it was a great time and great memories. I honestly get as much enjoyment out of others success as my own. Everything has been casual hunting, showing up, hanging out, good company, good grub and good hunting. I allow him and his father-in law to hunt on my place and actually provided them with 100 acres to a side of the farm and let them figure out everything about the terrain, trails, and game movement in their area. In the beginning he would help a little bit here and there, nothing to get excited about, but he helped me do a few things. Our friendship dramatically changed once he became engaged and married to another friend of my wifes, he spends every waking hour with her, or doing what she deems to be done. He is the definition of being whipped, so much so that she is a major control freak and he has no say on anything really. Our families have always been pretty close, our kids are best friends, sames ages and have grown up together.

 

Over the years our friendship has been one sided, he never spends time with me doing the things that made us become friends with in the first place like playing golf, going fishing, boating, skiing and helping me at my farm. His wife watches/babysits kids all day for income so when he gets home she is ready to be on the move out of the house. They are never home because they have their kids in every sport, and him coaching all the teams, very active in church programs, and attends church twice a week. He is a great guy and a terrific father, but a terrible friend. He has problems with his parents and siblings because of how self involved he is with his wife and family, he makes time for only her parents and his kids and wife. I feel as if we aren't friends at all any longer, just that our kids are friends and we are just parents of kids that are friends. We spend no time together unless he is making time available to hunt and as soon as he tags his game he's back off to home as fast as he can.

 

Both of our oldest sons are best friends and share the same passions that we do, the outdoors...fishing, hunting etc. I decided to see if my son was ready for the youth season last year, and he was. I asked my friend if his son would be interested in joining us and creating a cool bond and his son wasn't into it at first because of being gun shy. He couldn't shoot a 5 gallon bucket from 50 yards, but he pressured him into going anyway. So comes the weekend of the youth season and my friend couldn't make it there until the afternoon. I took my son to what I thought would be a great spot and we saw a ton of deer in the morning, but ultimately nothing my son wanted to shoot. He was holding out for a big buck, which is fine if that's what he wants. By us passing on some of those animals it allowed them to go another couple hundred yards and to another friend and his teenage daughter who shot a young buck that my son didn't want. It was a great moment, something my son and I were genuinely happy for them. It felt really good, as that friend had helped me all summer long working on building a barn to completion, to gain hunting rights and share that comraderie together. So I went out later that morning and did some work on the stand we sat in to be able to see further into the fields.

 

My friend showed up with his father in law and his two of his sons all dressed in their football outfits late afternoon. I had been waiting on them and the holdup was that he decided to bring his other son because he felt he was leaving him out, eventhough I had told him not to. So based on that and not wanting to be the bad guy I gave up my spot so that both his sons would have a place to go seperately and my son and I could go to where my other friend had sat. I was comfortable with my son climbing up into a stand instead of sitting on the ground, something his kids weren't. So his son shoots a giant buck at 175 yards right before dark (just amazing since he couldn't hit something at 50 yards)...I witnessed the deer being shot through binoculars. I was really bummed and felt as if I let my son down, that should have been his deer, but he was not upset and was happy for his friend. That shows I raised him right so far.

 

They called the world and bragged about the event and then left and went home, I didn't the appreciation. So he was there a few hours, strolled in and killed a deer of a lifetime. I became jealous, upset and resentment set in towards my friend. I kept it all to myself for a few days and then let him know how I felt and that I felt this way because of our friendship being fractured, that I felt it really didn't exist anymore. He agreed and that he needed to be a better friend and blah blah, said all the right things. Our deer season came and went and time moved on.

 

A light bulb literally went off in my head after hearing people tell me how his son and him were just lucky and at the right place at the right time. That was all true but I believed I could make my own luck. I am a very accomplished and successful hunter that has shot some big mature bucks, but I want to shoot record book type deer and I know they exist on my place. I decided to implement a management plan, to do all the things deer biologists preach about. I got into all of this hard, meanwhile I kept him in the loop the whole time, offering him the chance to do all of this with me, to help me. I got the same song and dance about how he wanted to, yet no results, he's just too busy with other stuff. I have some other business opportunities that exist because of my passion and some products I have developed as a result of all of my thoughts sitting in the woods. I have implemented part of the plan all by myself, my one friend with the daughter has helped with other things, but I am making a wildlife paradise at my place. Its a ton of work and will take me years to complete, but I have a vision and I will get there.

 

So my friend is all excited about everything I have been doing and is all excited for the season, but I felt the resentment start to grow...was I doing all this hard work so he could do as always and show up last minute, take part in something I made and then return back to home? I had this ever growing issue on my hands so my wife finally decided it was time to "rip off the band aid". Afterall I had been warning him, showing my displeasure with our friendship and lack of involvement all the while giving him a great opportunity to be a part of something special. I just couldn't let that happen, I worked my tail off. So I went over there last night and laid it all out. He took it prety well, stated he didn't have the time to help me and that he needs to make the time to be my friend. He said all the right things, but he makes lots of promises that he never keeps. I can't even get him to return a phone call when he says he will. He still wanted to know where we stood on the hunting, doesn't want to lose his spot of course. He thought we were building a special bond for our kids to share in something. I told him I would have to sleep on it. I have come to the decision that he isn't allowed to hunt there until he shows me the committment, and our friendship is repaired etc. I have people that would love to have this opportunity, would help me. I feel like I've just been used. Why is it I feel bad as well, do any of you feel like I am doing anything wrong? I guess I will find out if after 16 years of knowing him if our friendship was just convient to him when he wanted it to be or if he is really my friend. If he is really my friend then he will understand this has nothing to do with hunting, and all about family and friendship. Opinions, suggestions?

Edited July 28, 2009 by Hat Trick

[Cunning Runt]

Warning, Long story here.

 

As many of you know my dad and I own 360 acres in northern Missouri that has been in the family for generations. We farm the land, raise cattle and hunt/fish the land. We have always shared our place (hunting, fishing) with friends and family, generally friends and family that have been really close to us and have helped us with the many many projects and the hard work it is keeping up with such a large tract of property. I'd love to have more honestly. The hunting portion has always been some family members that like to help us manage our deer herd and put food in the freezer for themselves at the same time. My best friend has been hunting with me for about 6 years straight now after his dad sold 40 acres they had for hunting. Back when we were teenagers I invited him on some deer hunts, and called in some turkeys for him and let him shoot., it was a great time and great memories. I honestly get as much enjoyment out of others success as my own. Everything has been casual hunting, showing up, hanging out, good company, good grub and good hunting. I allow him and his father-in law to hunt on my place and actually provided them with 100 acres to a side of the farm and let them figure out everything about the terrain, trails, and game movement in their area. In the beginning he would help a little bit here and there, nothing to get excited about, but he helped me do a few things. Our friendship dramatically changed once he became engaged and married to another friend of my wifes, he spends every waking hour with her, or doing what she deems to be done. He is the definition of being whipped, so much so that she is a major control freak and he has no say on anything really. Our families have always been pretty close, our kids are best friends, sames ages and have grown up together. Over the years our friendship has been one sided, he never spends time with me doing the things that made us become friends with in the first place like playing golf, going fishing, boating, skiing and helping me at my farm. His wife watches/babysits kids all day for income so when he gets home she is ready to be on the move out of the house. They are never home because they have their kids in every sport, and him coaching all the teams, very active in church programs, and attends church twice a week. He is a great guy and a terrific father, but a terrible friend. He has problems with his parents and siblings because of how self involved he is with his wife and family, he makes time for only her parents and his kids and wife. I feel as if we aren't friends at all any longer, just that our kids are friends and we are just parents of kids that are friends. We spend no time together unless he is making time available to hunt and as soon as he tags his game he's back off to home as fast as he can. Both of our oldest sons are best friends and share the same passions that we do, the outdoors...fishing, hunting etc. I decided to see if my son was ready for the youth season last year, and he was. I asked my friend if his son would be interested in joining us and creating a cool bond and his son wasn't into it at first because of being gun shy. He couldn't shoot a 5 gallon bucket from 50 yards, but he pressured him into going anyway. So comes the weekend of the youth season and my friend couldn't make it there until the afternoon. I took my son to what I thought would be a great spot and we saw a ton of deer in the morning, but ultimately nothing my son wanted to shoot. He was holding out for a big buck, which is fine if that's what he wants. By us passing on some of those animals it allowed them to go another couple hundred yards and to another friend and his teenage daughter who shot a young buck that my son didn't want. It was a great moment, something my son and I were genuinely happy for them. It felt really good, as that friend had helped me all summer long working on building a barn to completion, to gain hunting rights and share that comraderie together. So I went out later that morning and did some work on the stand we sat in to be able to see further into the fields. My friend showed up with his father in law and his two of his sons all dressed in their football outfits late afternoon. I had been waiting on them and the holdup was that he decided to bring his other son because he felt he was leaving him out, eventhough I had told him not to. So based on that and not wanting to be the bad guy I gave up my spot so that both his sons would have a place to go seperately and my son and I could go to where my other friend had sat. I was comfortable with my son climbing up into a stand instead of sitting on the ground, something his kids weren't. So his son shoots a giant buck at 175 yards right before dark (just amazing since he couldn't hit something at 50 yards)...I witnessed the deer being shot through binoculars. I was really bummed and felt as if I let my son down, that should have been his deer, but he was not upset and was happy for his friend. That shows I raised him right so far. They called the world and bragged about the event and then left and went home, I didn't the appreciation. So he was there a few hours, strolled in and killed a deer of a lifetime. I became jealous, upset and resentment set in towards my friend. I kept it all to myself for a few days and then let him know how I felt and that I felt this way because of our friendship being fractured, that I felt it really didn't exist anymore. He agreed and that he needed to be a better friend and blah blah, said all the right things. Our deer season came and went and time moved on. A light bulb literally went off in my head after hearing people tell me how his son and him were just lucky and at the right place at the right time. That was all true but I believed I could make my own luck. I am a very accomplished and successful hunter that has shot some big mature bucks, but I want to shoot record book type deer and I know they exist on my place. I decided to implement a management plan, to do all the things deer biologists preach about. I got into all of this hard, meanwhile I kept him in the loop the whole time, offering him the chance to do all of this with me, to help me. I got the same song and dance about how he wanted to, yet no results, he's just too busy with other stuff. I have some other business opportunities that exist because of my passion and some products I have developed as a result of all of my thoughts sitting in the woods. I have implemented part of the plan all by myself, my one friend with the daughter has helped with other things, but I am making a wildlife paradise at my place. Its a ton of work and will take me years to complete, but I have a vision and I will get there. So my friend is all excited about everything I have been doing and is all excited for the season, but I felt the resentment start to grow...was I doing all this hard work so he could do as always and show up last minute, take part in something I made and then return back to home? I had this ever growing issue on my hands so my wife finally decided it was time to "rip off the band aid". Afterall I had been warning him, showing my displeasure with our friendship and lack of involvement all the while giving him a great opportunity to be a part of something special. I just couldn't let that happen, I worked my tail off. So I went over there last night and laid it all out. He took it prety well, stated he didn't have the time to help me and that he needs to make the time to be my friend. He said all the right things, but he makes lots of promises that he never keeps. I can't even get him to return a phone call when he says he will. He still wanted to know where we stood on the hunting, doesn't want to lose his spot of course. He thought we were building a special bond for our kids to share in something. I told him I would have to sleep on it. I have come to the decision that he isn't allowed to hunt there until he shows me the committment, and our friendship is repaired etc. I have people that would love to have this opportunity, would help me. I feel like I've just been used. Why is it I feel bad as well, do any of you feel like I am doing anything wrong? I guess I will find out if after 16 years of knowing him if our friendship was just convient to him when he wanted it to be or if he is really my friend. If he is really my friend then he will understand this has nothing to do with hunting, and all about family and friendship. Opinions, suggestions?

 

Tough one. My best friend and I are no longer best friends just within the last year. Kinda the same deal as with you - I felt that he wasn't living up to his share of what makes a best friend. Now, we're friends still, but I don't rely on him for anything.

 

It was a tough call on my part, but his lack of dependability just irritated the heck out of me and I said enough is enough.

 

I think you need to cut bait with the guy for a while and see if he comes around at which point you'll know if you have a true friend or not. If he doesn't, then move on. Life's too short.

[Kid Cid]

First suggestion: learn to break things up into paragraphs.

 

Sesond suggestion: Follow your instinct.

 

Deep in your heart, you know that this has been a one-sided friendship over the years. You know the old adage, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink? Well, you brought that bastage in right up to his knees and he's still not drinkining. You've gone out of your way to provide something special for this guy and his family yet when you talk to him about it, all you get is lip service. You've always wanted the friendship to be something more than it is. Clearly, he has no intention of making it other than what it is. It may seem cold or hard assed, but you're finally coming to grips with the reality of the situation and you're feeling a little guilty about it. Don't. It's ok to take care of yourself.

 

Good luck. I know you'll be better off for doing this.

[Clubfoothead]

Sounds like he wants to be your friend but doesn't have the time/commitment to be the kind of friend you want. Doesn't make either of you a bad guy, IMHO. You've said what you had to say, he said what he had to say. If I were you I'd do my thing and not worry about what he does, give things some time now that everyone has spoke their peace.

 

Sounds like your kids are friends and that'd probably be nice to saty that way. You sound awfully committed to your property, what you want to do with it and so on. In my opinion, I don't think you should expect the same level out of him, even if he's getting to hunt the property. It's you property, your vision, your plan. I've got a buddy with a sweet boat. I always slide him $20.00 -$40.00 everytime we go up to Texoma for gas in the boat, depending on how many days we are up there. If he wants to paint the boat, needs a new ignition, wants one of those cool propeller hitch covers for his truck, well it's his boat.

 

I'm guessing you don't feel too good because you think he just told you what you wanted to hear and that's just delaying the inevitable.

 

Hope you guys can work it out.

[Egret]

Sounds like he wants to be your friend but doesn't have the time/commitment to be the kind of friend you want. Doesn't make either of you a bad guy, IMHO. You've said what you had to say, he said what he had to say. If I were you I'd do my thing and not worry about what he does, give things some time now that everyone has spoke their peace.

 

Sounds like your kids are friends and that'd probably be nice to saty that way. You sound awfully committed to your property, what you want to do with it and so on. In my opinion, I don't think you should expect the same level out of him, even if he's getting to hunt the property. It's you property, your vision, your plan. I've got a buddy with a sweet boat. I always slide him $20.00 -$40.00 everytime we go up to Texoma for gas in the boat, depending on how many days we are up there. If he wants to paint the boat, needs a new ignition, wants one of those cool propeller hitch covers for his truck, well it's his boat.

 

I'm guessing you don't feel too good because you think he just told you what you wanted to hear and that's just delaying the inevitable.

 

Hope you guys can work it out.

Word.

[Hat Trick]

First suggestion: learn to break things up into paragraphs. LOL, I just wrote it really fast. I was wondering if that would bother someone.

 

Sesond suggestion: Follow your instinct.

 

Deep in your heart, you know that this has been a one-sided friendship over the years. You know the old adage, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink? Well, you brought that bastage in right up to his knees and he's still not drinkining. You've gone out of your way to provide something special for this guy and his family yet when you talk to him about it, all you get is lip service. You've always wanted the friendship to be something more than it is. Clearly, he has no intention of making it other than what it is. It may seem cold or hard assed, but you're finally coming to grips with the reality of the situation and you're feeling a little guilty about it. Don't. It's ok to take care of yourself.

 

Good luck. I know you'll be better off for doing this.

 

This is pretty much word for word what my wife thinks. Thanks for the reply!

[dmarc117]

drop this assface now

[Hat Trick]

Sounds like he wants to be your friend but doesn't have the time/commitment to be the kind of friend you want. Doesn't make either of you a bad guy, IMHO. You've said what you had to say, he said what he had to say. If I were you I'd do my thing and not worry about what he does, give things some time now that everyone has spoke their peace.

 

Sounds like your kids are friends and that'd probably be nice to saty that way. You sound awfully committed to your property, what you want to do with it and so on. In my opinion, I don't think you should expect the same level out of him, even if he's getting to hunt the property. It's you property, your vision, your plan. I've got a buddy with a sweet boat. I always slide him $20.00 -$40.00 everytime we go up to Texoma for gas in the boat, depending on how many days we are up there. If he wants to paint the boat, needs a new ignition, wants one of those cool propeller hitch covers for his truck, well it's his boat.

 

I'm guessing you don't feel too good because you think he just told you what you wanted to hear and that's just delaying the inevitable.

 

Hope you guys can work it out.

 

I agree with what you said, but a true friend would offer to help out with some things knowing full well the things that are being shared. It's not being very appreciative not to offer some time. My dad and I are getting ready to build a two story log cabin, you think we might want some help with that? I can guarantee my other friend will WANT to help because he enjoys spending time with my dad and I. Thanks Club.

[dmarc117]

the older i get, i realize that most people are in it for themselves. it sucks, but its true.

[polksalet]

I guess Ramsfan is my best friend even though he is an anus. We treat each other like death and use each other as well. However at the end of the day I know I can count on him. I look at true friendship as a system of mutual sacrifice. Friendships go though stages the same as any other relationship. Perhaps your friend is going through some of which you are unaware. I'm not taking up for the guy but it is just something to consider.

[tonorator]

I agree with what you said, but a true friend would offer to help out with some things knowing full well the things that are being shared. It's not being very appreciative not to offer some time. My dad and I are getting ready to build a two story log cabin, you think we might want some help with that? I can guarantee my other friend will WANT to help because he enjoys spending time with my dad and I. Thanks Club.

 

this doesn't sound to me like you want a friend, sounds more like you want a farm hand ...

 

is sharing what you have built with others truly contingent on what they put into it? your land brought him joy, brought his son joy, strengthened the friendship of your boys, and given his busy schedule and controlling wife, probably gave him a glimpse of joy in an otherwise hurried, hectic life. i'm thinking that's a helluva cool thing you can do for someone that has been your friend for many years.

 

i'm sorry, but you just sound selfish to me. the guy is with his family and kids, not out with other friends or lying to you. i'm obviously not as close to this as you and only you know if you are being taken for granted or not appreciated but from what you've written, it doesn't sound that way to me. why not keep the friendship connection alive by having him hunt with you a few times a year vs. cutting things off completely? who cares if he doesn't help out?

 

your son was happy for them ... why can't you be?

[geeteebee]

So if the guy shows back up and helps you out a little, is he just trying to buy a hunting spot? And if so, are you ok with that? I'd just tell him that this year you've had some other people who have really gone the extra mile to help out with the management of the land and you feel you owe it to them to reward their efforts. If you are okay with the first question above, then you can let him know that if he has the time next year to help out with the land, then he can hunt the land next season.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be okay with him just trying to be friends so he can hunt the land and would just be straight up with him that other people have really stepped up and you want to reward their efforts with hunting rights.

 

And now I must go take some advil because my eyes are crossed after reading that.

[geeteebee]

this doesn't sound to me like you want a friend, sounds more like you want a farm hand ...

 

is sharing what you have built with others truly contingent on what they put into it? your land brought him joy, brought his son joy, strengthened the friendship of your boys, and given his busy schedule and controlling wife, probably gave him a glimpse of joy in an otherwise hurried, hectic life. i'm thinking that's a helluva cool thing you can do for someone that has been your friend for many years.

 

i'm sorry, but you just sound selfish to me. the guy is with his family and kids, not out with other friends or lying to you. i'm obviously not as close to this as you and only you know if you are being taken for granted or not appreciated but from what you've written, it doesn't sound that way to me. why not keep the friendship connection alive by having him hunt with you a few times a year vs. cutting things off completely? who cares if he doesn't help out?

 

your son was happy for them ... why can't you be?

 

 

Totally disagree here. He's getting used. This guy hasn't been his friend in many years because he has other priorities in life and that's ok, but it isn't ok for the guy to expect to continue to get to hunt on the land just because he always had in the past. Just my .

[tonorator]

Totally disagree here. He's getting used. This guy hasn't been his friend in many years because he has other priorities in life and that's ok, but it isn't ok for the guy to expect to continue to get to hunt on the land just because he always had in the past. Just my .

 

hey, i agree that if the guy is using him for his land, drop him like a rock. it just didn't sound that way to me. the "other priorities" in his life are his wife and kids ... so it's not other friends or activities with other friends. it also doesn't sound like the guy expects anything and is cool with whatever hat decides to do ... so he doesn't sound like an a-hole. given that, why not still spend some time with the guy and his kid for a hunt now and then?

[Square]

Some people change over time. If this guy used to be cool but has changed... I don't know what you can do. You said yourself the guys is the definition of p-whipped. I knew a lot of guys in college that were cool to hang out with. They got married and have completely different priorities so they can be bad friends (I'm not saying that is ok, just that it happens). I'd likely count him out UNLESS you want your kids to stay good friends and hang out. If that is the issue, you might have to find some middle ground. Just tell him that things aren't the way they used to be but that doesn't mean that we can't get along. I have someone else that has been helping me with the farm and I have to give him your hunting spot as a thank you. Might be able to stay relatively friendly (kind of the way it has been), still let the kids be friends, and not feel resentment about him being worthless in the help department.

[Hat Trick]

this doesn't sound to me like you want a friend, sounds more like you want a farm hand ...

 

is sharing what you have built with others truly contingent on what they put into it? your land brought him joy, brought his son joy, strengthened the friendship of your boys, and given his busy schedule and controlling wife, probably gave him a glimpse of joy in an otherwise hurried, hectic life. i'm thinking that's a helluva cool thing you can do for someone that has been your friend for many years.

 

i'm sorry, but you just sound selfish to me. the guy is with his family and kids, not out with other friends or lying to you. i'm obviously not as close to this as you and only you know if you are being taken for granted or not appreciated but from what you've written, it doesn't sound that way to me. why not keep the friendship connection alive by having him hunt with you a few times a year vs. cutting things off completely? who cares if he doesn't help out?

 

your son was happy for them ... why can't you be?

 

Actually, I'm not looking for a farm hand, just a continued friendship. I'm looking for my friend to spend time with me. He doesn't have the time to go golfing or any of the other intrests we shared over the years, but he always has time to schedule around hunting. He knows he's in the wrong, but giving me lip service for almost a year is not right. He does have time to go to the lake with other friends and have fun there. It's his time, he can choose to spend it how he wants, but when he chooses not to spend any of his time with me and then expects to have this great thing I have I don't think that's okay. I let him know that and he wanted to bring up all the time he spends with everyone else. I don't care about what else he does. I care that he spends time with me, being my friend. If he's not involved in my life then why should I continue to let him get off easy on my dime? I know there are going to be differing opinions and that's okay. He deeply apologized for his actions and that he's let the friendship slip, but when do i say enough is enough and cut him off without seeing results? I am doing it now and holding his spot for a year to see if he wants it...it being a friendship and spending time with me.

[Azazello1313]

are you sure you guys were just "hunting" back in the woods in the old days, because this is all sounding a little brokeback...

 

[paulzale]

this doesn't sound to me like you want a friend, sounds more like you want a farm hand ...

 

is sharing what you have built with others truly contingent on what they put into it? your land brought him joy, brought his son joy, strengthened the friendship of your boys, and given his busy schedule and controlling wife, probably gave him a glimpse of joy in an otherwise hurried, hectic life. i'm thinking that's a helluva cool thing you can do for someone that has been your friend for many years.

 

i'm sorry, but you just sound selfish to me. the guy is with his family and kids, not out with other friends or lying to you. i'm obviously not as close to this as you and only you know if you are being taken for granted or not appreciated but from what you've written, it doesn't sound that way to me. why not keep the friendship connection alive by having him hunt with you a few times a year vs. cutting things off completely? who cares if he doesn't help out?

 

your son was happy for them ... why can't you be?

 

I tend to agree with tonorator on this. It is extremely difficult to be a friend and get nothing in return, but sometimes we are called to do this, you never know what is going on in his head or how he feels about all the other running around and family duties he has. If you like spending time with him, then invite him hunting without expectations for anything in return other than a little time with him and his boys. If you don't enjoy time with him the drop him. If he is using you shame on him, it all comes around in the end!!!

[tonorator]

He does have time to go to the lake with other friends and have fun there.

 

well, if that's the case, and you have others who have helped on the land and who with you are now closer, i don't have any problem with you taking away his spot for someone else. if there is still room, you may want to consider still have him come at a lower frequency so you can still stay in touch ... that is, if you still value the friendship.

[muck]

I am seeing both sides of this story. In order to really comment, I think you should invite me over to hunt your property so I can truly comment as to whether or not you should let this guy and his kids hunt, too.

 

Actually, in all seriousness, would you be as put out if he'd shot a small buck or a doe last year, and instead you or your son had bagged a big buck?

 

If the crux of the answer is that you're bummed that he harvested a trophy buck, then let him hunt, but tell him that under no circumstance is he to shoot any buck above 2 points and that does are acceptable. And, tell him that if he ever does harvest a buck above 2pts, no more hunting rights. If he wants the right to shoot a big buck, he's got to come and help out. Other than that, because you have so much history and you are hopeful for your kids to be friends too, that you'd like him to come.

 

Maybe part of this is that you're teaching your kids how to be a good friend (including figuring out how to solve a conflict and/or call them on the carpet when needed).

 

Good luck.

[matt770]

I've noticed that people often fall into the categories of "giver" or "taker". We all know people who are generous to a fault, would give you the shirt off their backs. It's nice when someone appreciates what you do for them and at least tries to reciprocate. Unfortunately there are some people who take advantage, maybe not intentionally or maliciously, but as in the case of your friend, he just didn't have the time.

 

Kudos to you for being honest with him. Some "givers" end up being treated like a doormat because they don't know how to stand up for themselves, compulsively putting others first to their own detriment. That would be a horrible example to set for your son. Instead you are showing him the value of your hard work, that the fruits of that labor are not to be just given away to someone who is ungrateful and self-centered.

[dmarc117]

do this last and final test.......

 

go to a mall or any place with a revolving door. let him walk in 1st, you behind him but not in same stall. see if he pushes or lets you push. friggin takers never push!!!!!

[Hat Trick]

I am seeing both sides of this story. In order to really comment, I think you should invite me over to hunt your property so I can truly comment as to whether or not you should let this guy and his kids hunt, too.

 

Actually, in all seriousness, would you be as put out if he'd shot a small buck or a doe last year, and instead you or your son had bagged a big buck?

 

If the crux of the answer is that you're bummed that he harvested a trophy buck, then let him hunt, but tell him that under no circumstance is he to shoot any buck above 2 points and that does are acceptable. And, tell him that if he ever does harvest a buck above 2pts, no more hunting rights. If he wants the right to shoot a big buck, he's got to come and help out. Other than that, because you have so much history and you are hopeful for your kids to be friends too, that you'd like him to come.

 

Maybe part of this is that you're teaching your kids how to be a good friend (including figuring out how to solve a conflict and/or call them on the carpet when needed).

 

Good luck.

 

Yeah, I'm being honest when I say that event brought the bad feelings to the surface, but they were there already obviously. As far as the kids are concerned they are allowed to shoot one deer, per regulations so they could choose to shoot whatever deer they wanted. I do have guidelines that go above the state (must have 4 points longer than 1 inch on a single side) that they must be a muture animal 3.5 or older, but that doesn't apply to them. They are kids and any deer is a trophy and a great memory. I personally will only shoot bucks that are 4.5 or older. I shoot does left and right, shot 6 last year, that's how you control the balance of the herd and grow the big bucks. I'm not sure how he would feel about not being able to shoot a buck. He shot one last year that I deemed to be 3.5, not mature and he regretted shooting it. He stated he shot it so that he didn't go buckless and that didn't sit well with me or my dad. He's still a good guy that gets involved in way too much stuff and we've just drifted apart as friends and it appears I'm being used when it probably isn't the way he feels eventhough it seems that way. It's just a very tough situation that I have to sleep on again.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Hat Trick

[Chief Dick]

Sounds like a great place to fish. I wish I had a place close to me like that.

 

Tough call HT. Sounds like 2 separate issues really.

 

1. You miss your friend and how you guys used to be.

 

2. You work your ass off on your land, and the trade-off for people to use it is to help out a little bit.

 

Keep the 2 issues separate. If the condition of using the land is to help, then you need to tell him very simply: "I have a lot of people who help turn this place into a hunter's paradise, and they earn their spot on the land. If you would like to hunt here, then put in your fair share. I'm still your friend, but I want to be fair to everyone who wants to use the land." And stick to that. If he doesn't help, then he's out of luck for the hunting aspect.

 

As far as the friendship issue goes, you may just need to evaluate "your" terms of friendship. As in, I will be your friend but you need to reciprocate the same kind of effort.

 

Sometimes the hardest thing about being a friend is being selfless. And the whole buck issue is just a symptom of you missing your friend. Sometimes you just have to tell the guy: "If you need anything, I'm here for you buddy." And that's all you need to say.

[dmarc117]

Yeah, I'm being honest when I say that event brought the bad feelings to the surface, but they were there already obviously. As far as the kids are concerned they are allowed to shoot one deer, per regulations so they could choose to shoot whatever deer they wanted. I do have guidelines that go above the state (must have 4 points longer than 1 inch on a single side) that they must be a muture animal 3.5 or older. I personally will only shoot bucks that are 4.5 or older. I shoot does left and right, shot 6 last year, that's how you control the balance of the herd and grow the big bucks. I'm not sure how he would feel about not being able to shoot a buck. He shot one last year that I deemed to be 3.5, not mature and he regretted shooting it. He stated he shot it so that he didn't go buckless and that didn't sit well with me or my dad. He's still a good guy that gets involved in way too much stuff and we've just drifted apart as friends and it appears I'm being used when it probably isn't the way he feels eventhough it seems that way. It's just a very tough situation that I have to sleep on again.

 

 

quick question off topic........

 

im not a hunter, but how the hell do you know all these things before you take the shot?? age?? inches?? if the things is 50yards away. what if you shoot one, and its not to those parameters?? scream for a medic?