I am an atheist

[whomper]

So god loves me the same as a serial killer? What's cool about that?

 

 

I cant believe you are comparing an atheist to a serial killer . Serial killers everywhere fart in your general direction

[detlef]

I've seen this and it confuses me. I've met evangelical atheists. Your opinion is "nothing", shut up already.

 

(I'm not religious, but at least religious people have an opinion about "something". g-zus.)

Agreed with Ursa, this is a stupid argument. Religious people believe in their version on how things went down. No believers believe their version of how things went down. Why is fine for those who believe that things happened because of god to go on about it but those who feel it didn't should just "shut up already"?

 

As for the justification on being an "evangelical atheist"...

 

If believing in god was as simple as looking for answers to explain the unknown, then there would be no real need for those of us who don't believe to make a big deal about looking to the world itself rather than a deity to explain all this. Unfortunately, it's not. It's not because major religions have attached a ton of baggage to it and made it their mission to convert others to their version of these answers for the unknown up to and including fighting wars over it. Well, that and the insidious habit of implying divine direction to justify laws that govern man.

 

So it's rather difficult to separate the more noble ends of religion from the rest when the rest is so ingrained in the culture of it. Thus, as a non-believer, it is an understandable stance to want to "unconvert" people. Perhaps if you can create a chink in the armor of the core beliefs, you can also erode the attachment people have to institutions that many of us feel are more destructive than good.

Edited June 14, 2010 by detlef

[frenzal rhomb]

I dont want to convery anyone - just dont want to feel like a pariah becuase ot it. People around here are really sensitive. I almost got into a fight once cause I had a Bad Religion tour shirt on

[detlef]

I dont want to convery anyone - just dont want to feel like a pariah becuase ot it. People around here are really sensitive. I almost got into a fight once cause I had a Bad Religion tour shirt on

I'm not saying you should. Rather, I was simply annoyed when the lame suggestion that atheists should just keep their mouth shut was brought up again.

 

Ironic, actually, that the onus be on atheists to keep the peace in these matters.

 

It should also be noted that I have also found that merely mentioning that you don't believe in the specific and defined god described in Christianity is, to many, a defacto attack on religion. So, merely openly stating you don't believe will get you labeled an "evangelical atheist" by some.

 

Think about the situation here. There seem to be two options, play along, or get ready for a battle. That sort of implies that many (I say many because people outside of your circle seem to confirm the concerns your wife has) Christians see the simple fact of you not sharing their belief as an attack on their beliefs.

[frenzal rhomb]

Yes, but it's worth it to fight over Bad Religion.

 

they are touring the US this October - football and Bad Religion, bring on the fall

[frenzal rhomb]

At least you have your priorities straight. Seriously, just talk to your wife and do whatever she wants you to do on this matter.

 

It's not she's asking you to root for the Cowboys. It's just god.

the issue isnmt with my wife - shes cool with it, an it appears that most sensible educated people are ok with it. I was just testing the waters to see how negatively atheism is viewed in such a religious society - and no rooting for Dallas - dont sweat that - just Bad Religion/NOFX/the Souls etc

[Big John]

the issue isnmt with my wife - shes cool with it, an it appears that most sensible educated people are ok with it. I was just testing the waters to see how negatively atheism is viewed in such a religious society - and no rooting for Dallas - dont sweat that - just Bad Religion/NOFX/the Souls etc

Raiders fan

[Square]

What would you say if I told you I think I have proof that god exists?

 

 

And he hates me...

 

 

seriously though, some people are touchy on religion and politics. Most people say that friends and family shouldn't really talk about that stuff because of the potential for fighting. As far as Detlef saying that simply "not believing" can be considered an attack... I think there is something to the delivery of "not believing". Be a good guy about it and most people would be fine IMO. A simple phrase that mentions you respect people's belief but you have just found that you personally share the same beliefs. If they push the issue I'd just tell them to drop it and change the subject. It should end there with reasonable people. Good luck.

[Azazello1313]

This above all: to thine own self be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man.

 

doesn't reflect on the topic at hand, but I find it pretty interesting that shakespeare put this speech on the lips of a shallow, lying and conniving old d-bag.

[Atlanta Cracker]

That sort of implies that many (I say many because people outside of your circle seem to confirm the concerns your wife has) Christians see the simple fact of you not sharing their belief as an attack on their beliefs.

 

Many don't feel that way either and are comfortable with their beliefs even when others don't share them. Unfortunately the people you reference make enough of a mess of what the message of religion should be that it taints your and other people's view on religion as a whole.

[detlef]

Many don't feel that way either and are comfortable with their beliefs even when others don't share them. Unfortunately the people you reference make enough of a mess of what the message of religion should be that it taints your and other people's view on religion as a whole.

I understand that. My point was that the very fact we're having this conversation at all means this is an issue. The very fact that dude's wife is concerned about how her family will react, and others here (some of whom aren't even religious) are agreeing that he should just keep his mouth shut about it, means it's an issue. Obviously there are plenty of people who are cool with their religion and aren't going to care one way or the other about who else feels that way. But if that was the prevailing thought among those in the church, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Because we certainly don't have the opposite discussion.

 

We aren't talking about a guy who's decided he wants to go to church all of a sudden and is concerned about whether or not he should let his wife's family know about it for a reason. Because that wouldn't be as big of a deal. Yet, when the church tries to enforce itself on politics, the rationale is that their way of life is somehow endangered. But if that is the case, why are the only people concerned about tiptoeing around people who aren't in the church?

[Jimmy Neutron]

My best buddy is a died in the wool Republican. We argue all the time and have fun doing it (he is always wrong ) but religion goes a lot deeper than mere politics for large numbers of people, so I think your pact is sensible if you want to stay friends.

 

Exactly.

[BeeR]

After being raised christian/lutheran - I have finally committed and gone all in that I just dont believe. My wife, who is puerto rican and catholic, seems to feel that I need to keep this deeply secretive especially around her family. So at the risk of getting ostracized from the huddle communityand my own personal community, what are the repurcussions of coming out as a blasphemist in a christian US??

You kidding? Being an atheist is hip. You, like, rock! Or rule. Whatever. :square:

 

 

I guess the best way for me to put it is like this... If you want people to be tolerant of your beliefs as an atheist, be tolerant of their beliefs as religious believers.

That's extremely and refreshingly balanced/intelligent. ie unconventional.

 

 

Don't you worship the EGG?

For some reason Paul McCartney came to mind here.

 

 

IMO re. her family, you "play along" and dodge this as much as you can. Trying to "stand proud" about your beliefs here is begging for trouble with no point to it, except to get in their face about something that has plenty of backfire potential and little benefit. And yes if they were all atheists and you were converting to Christianity or whatever I'd say the same.

Edited June 15, 2010 by BeeR

[Kid Cid]

Simply put, there is a time and place for everything. You shouldn't hide your beliefs, however you should know that a six pack into a family gathering is typically not the best time for that conversation.

[Square]

Whatever. :square:

Hey, leave me out of this.

 

Or did we used to have a gremlin named square?

[Big John]

Or did we used to have a gremlin named square?

Nope

[cre8tiff]

Nope

 

Hmm. Hey John are colons allowed in usernames? Would be fun to have a graemlin as a name, kinda like Prince.

[Big John]

Hmm. Hey John are colons allowed in usernames? Would be fun to have a graemlin as a name, kinda like Prince.

Yep, but the admins frown on making alias accounts.

 

And graelims dont show up in titles or when quoting someone.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Big John

[wiegie]

I am an atheist, what do you think??

I think you're gonna burn in hell, sinner. That's what I think.

[BeeR]

Hey, leave me out of this.

lol - pardon.

[Rovers]

I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic grammar school, became an agnostic, then athiest, and back again, full circle.

 

Bottom line, I don't voluntarilly discuss any of it. I think saying "grace" before a meal is simply to respect others, especially in a family setting and it doesn't mean it's a compromise. It's just respect for their beliefs.

 

Recently a friend/aquatnace of mine said something about going to church... when I told him I go every Sunday, he was surprised and said he didn't figure me for a church goer. That is fine by me, just means I am not an extremist who preaches. But after more conversation, he started to talk about how I run my business honestly, and made some connection of that to being a practicing Catholic. That's fine too.

 

Spiritiuallity is a very personal thing, and yes, even atheists have embraced some form of it in their morals and sense of right and wrong, it is not necessarilly a religously based concept, although I think most people want to make that connection.

 

Having shrared your outlook on religion at one time, I fully understand the reasoning and intellectual thought behind it. I cannot fully understand my renewed belief in it. It just sort of happened, events, life changes, things that happened that just defied other explanations.

 

I guess all I am saying is keep it to yourself, there isn't any need to advertise one way or the other, something that drives me crazy with the extremists like the hard core born agains, but don't judge, and as life events go on, so may your opinions on this as well morph into something else along the way.

 

It's still about looking at the man in the mirror and taking an honest assessment of him.

[frenzal rhomb]

I think you're gonna burn in hell, sinner. That's what I think.

I'll take my chance - if Im a good person, I'll get a pass in the end anyway, right??

[Rovers]

I'll take my chance - if Im a good person, I'll get a pass in the end anyway, right??

 

Well, if you buy into the bible... only ONE can judge.

 

Which, BTW, is what drives me nuts about the born agains. They judge people left and right, while bible pounding the entire time. I've spoken to some that declare themselves saints, and believe that no matter what they might do, even murder, if they ask for forgiveness and mean it, they think they will still be "saved". Whackiest extremists I've ever met.

 

Once, I really messed with this guy's head. Seems they think that being ghey is a choice, and not genetic. Black and white, right and wrong, keeps life simple. When I asked him about true hermaphrodites.... it rocked his world. He did not even know they existed. He ran off to speak to his preacher.

[wiegie]

Which, BTW, is what drives me nuts about the born agains. They judge people left and right, while bible pounding the entire time. I've spoken to some that declare themselves saints, and believe that no matter what they might do, even murder, if they ask for forgiveness and mean it, they think they will still be "saved". Whackiest extremists I've ever met.

actually, that is pretty much a key component of almost all denominations of Christianity (Catholics, like yourself, included). Now, this does NOT mean that you can go commit any sin that you want because you know you can just get it forgiven, but there is NO sin that God would consider unforgivable if the person truly repented.

 

(Now, there are some people who believe in something called "eternal salvation" (aka "once saved, always saved") which suggests that no matter what they do in the future, as long as they are saved once, they can never become "unsaved". That seems like a pretty dumb doctrine to me.

[wiegie]

I'll take my chance - if Im a good person, I'll get a pass in the end anyway, right??

nope you are gonna burn

 

(actually, not that you care but I think God could surprise you)