Bang, Locked Down

[Perchoutofwater]

Perch stated he'd have to send out between 1500 and 2000 1099s under the plan....that somewhere between 6-9 per business day. How long does that really take someone to do that task? 10-15 minutes? If its automated, then even less than that. Point is, its not the labor-intesive process many are making it out to be.

 

You and 10-15 minutes roughly having someone work on this one full day every week, which means either someone is going to have to work longer hours, or we are going to have to hire someone. One day a week for my bookkeeper is going to cost me roughly $14,000 a year. Add postage and mail supplies an you can probably kick that up another $1,000 a year. So, you've just increased the cost of my doing business by $15,000 a year. Where does that come from? All this accomplishes is putting more small and medium size business owners at risk. Sure if you find someone that is obviously cheating on their taxes, put the screws to them, but don't put the screws to the small and medium sized business owners that try to play by the book. Note, I said obviously cheating on their taxes, because the tax code is so f'd up people could easily be doing it without even knowing it.

[bpwallace49]

You and 10-15 minutes roughly having someone work on this one full day every week, which means either someone is going to have to work longer hours, or we are going to have to hire someone. One day a week for my bookkeeper is going to cost me roughly $14,000 a year. Add postage and mail supplies an you can probably kick that up another $1,000 a year. So, you've just increased the cost of my doing business by $15,000 a year. Where does that come from? All this accomplishes is putting more small and medium size business owners at risk. Sure if you find someone that is obviously cheating on their taxes, put the screws to them, but don't put the screws to the small and medium sized business owners that try to play by the book. Note, I said obviously cheating on their taxes, because the tax code is so f'd up people could easily be doing it without even knowing it.

 

Are you saying that your operation is so grossly inefficient that 10-15 minutes a day equals a full day of work every week?

 

[Perchoutofwater]

Are you saying that your operation is so grossly inefficient that 10-15 minutes a day equals a full day of work every week?

 

 

I'm thinking 10-15 minutes per form, by the time you gather all the info, fill in the blanks on the form, stamp and stuff the envelope.

[bpwallace49]

I'm thinking 10-15 minutes per form, by the time you gather all the info, fill in the blanks on the form, stamp and stuff the envelope.

 

But wouldnt most of this be automated on a computer? Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if they made this submittable electronically to ease the "burden".

 

Perch I am all for a flat tax, BTW.

[i_am_the_swammi]

I'm thinking 10-15 minutes per form, by the time you gather all the info, fill in the blanks on the form, stamp and stuff the envelope.

 

 

But wouldnt most of this be automated on a computer? Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if they made this submittable electronically to ease the "burden".

 

yes, it would be...it would take the amount of time needed to go to the printer, and put the paper in the envelope.

 

I, on the other hand, would .pdf it, and email it to my intended recipient, saving .43 cents per stamp + supplies

[Perchoutofwater]

But wouldnt most of this be automated on a computer? Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if they made this submittable electronically to ease the "burden".

 

Perch I am all for a flat tax, BTW.

 

Finding the people you need to send them too should be fairly easy as well as the amounts each was paid. That could be done in a matter of seconds, minutes at worst. The part I see being time consuming is the filling out the actual form. I'm sure you have to list a decent amount of information about the company, the company ID #, the amount, etc... I don't know that this can be automated. Also, I don't know if emailing it would work or not. We still have a few trade contractors that do not have an email address. How are you to know if they received your email? No, you probably will have to send it via snail mail, and just thinking of it now, you will probably have to pay the additional postage for certified mail, just to prove that the one idiot they are actually doing all this to catch doesn't lie and say he never go the form.

[ljbrun]

It appears that at least some might be interested to know that Representative Daniel Lungren (R-CA), has introduced legislation to repeal the requirement. The bill is H.R. 5141, The Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act.

 

StopForm1099.org

 

As far as implementing the requirement. When the time comes, I'll just set it up using MS Access. I've developed plenty of Access databases to help manage various processes. I'm sure Quickbooks etc. will offer addons for their programs for little cost or as part of an up-rev.

 

I don't think printing the forms and envelopes, and sending them out will be the issue for most. I think it will be tracking down the vendors' info and, if not available, dealing with the backup withholding requirements. I think this will be what kills the small business.

[WaterMan]

I'm dealing with three vendors right now that are in grave danger of having their asses kicked to the curb due to their inability to cope with the amount of work they have plus the sheer incompetence level they are displaying. The work is there for companies, they just won't hire to meet it so their existing employees are being flogged to death and are screwing up left, right and center.

 

They want to see how far they can push people at the cost of safety and the sanity of the workers. I wouldn't be surprised if this is why BP/Haliburton/whoever messed up in the Gulf. Eventually workers get fed up and let stuff slide or they are overwhelmed and can't do all the critical tasks.

 

Another real easy example of this is Wal-Mart. In everyone I have been in, they have 20 registers but only use 3 of them.

[Perchoutofwater]

They want to see how far they can push people at the cost of safety and the sanity of the workers. I wouldn't be surprised if this is why BP/Haliburton/whoever messed up in the Gulf. Eventually workers get fed up and let stuff slide or they are overwhelmed and can't do all the critical tasks.

 

Another real easy example of this is Wal-Mart. In everyone I have been in, they have 20 registers but only use 3 of them.

 

Businesses are bad, I think we should close them all down.

[Gonkis]

I'm looking at the need to generate about 175 NEW 1099 forms, compared to the few in the past for some engineering help. I think they implemented it, as well, because people were paying more and more bills with credit cards and the paper trail to vendors was clouded. We do that with some of our vendors and it is a pain to now have a "bank" defined in the system that is really a credit card so we can track all vendor payments.

 

Think about this.... gas up the truck enough at BP or Sheetz or Sunoco and you'll have to send them a 1099 form?! w t f.

 

Hell, I've had meals with important customers that cost more than $600... maybe I should submit a 1099 to the Blue Point Grille. Ridiculous.

[WaterMan]

Businesses are bad, I think we should close them all down.

 

I'm sorry that you think your business and every other business is bad, but alot of them actually don't run skeleton crews.

[rattsass]

Okay, today I read that if you pay your vendor with a credit card (and fill the coffers of the banks with their 3% charge for transactions) you do not need to fill out a form. So there, we all have a choice. Devote more man-hours to running your business, or just pass the cost down the line with your plastic. Isn't that convenient? You can pass the cost of this right down to your vendors after all. I feel much better now.

[gbpfan1231]

The sentiment in the links Az provided, and the concept of the 1099 discussion, are two completely different topics. But you already knew that.

 

The point Club and I were making is that documenting expenditures over $600 isn't really that big a deal. It will likely require nothing more than a software program ...something very similar in concept to Quickbooks (and it wouldn't surprise me if they came out with a supplement to their existing software to handle this). Most businesses can easily track their purchases....to filter out the ones that exceed $600 is a very minor issue.

 

Perch stated he'd have to send out between 1500 and 2000 1099s under the plan....that somewhere between 6-9 per business day. How long does that really take someone to do that task? 10-15 minutes? If its automated, then even less than that. Point is, its not the labor-intesive process many are making it out to be.

Would you be willing to put money where your mouth is? I am pretty sure Perch would pay you $500 to his filing for him. For as little as 10 minutes work that puts your hourly wage at $3,000.00 per hour - there is no chance in hell you would turn that down right? So are you willing to do his filing for $500? Seems like a no brainer to me.

[millerx]

I'm dealing with three vendors right now that are in grave danger of having their asses kicked to the curb due to their inability to cope with the amount of work they have plus the sheer incompetence level they are displaying. The work is there for companies, they just won't hire to meet it so their existing employees are being flogged to death and are screwing up left, right and center.

I'm guessing these companies probably have 49 employees currently.

[Perchoutofwater]

I'm guessing these companies probably have 49 employees currently.

 

That wouldn't surprise me at all. Now thanks to the stealth care bill demand will have to be very, very high before a lot of companies hire that fiftieth employee.

[i_am_the_swammi]

Would you be willing to put money where your mouth is? I am pretty sure Perch would pay you $500 to his filing for him. For as little as 10 minutes work that puts your hourly wage at $3,000.00 per hour - there is no chance in hell you would turn that down right? So are you willing to do his filing for $500? Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

$500 a day for 10-15 minutes of work? Done. I'll even buy the postage and supplies, if he wants.

[Clubfoothead]

The software costs $39.00 to $100.00 and it'll merge with any database. Again, since you aren't a tax cheat and are already tracking these expenses, it is simply a merge function. I can't imagine it would take two people more than 1/2 a day, one day max.

 

Continue to make excuses for tax cheats. Nice.

[SEC=UGA]

I'm not too clear on the details, but my understanding is this... If I buy a computer from Dell, and it is over $600, I have to send Dell a 1099, is this correct?

It probably isn't going to cause that many problems for me, but how many problems is it going to cause for Dell, How many $600 + computers do they sell per year, 1 million, 2 million? That is a lot of paper work and processing. Other large companies, Home Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart will be receiving, millions upon millions of 1099s to process that they didn't have to process previously. That is where it is gonna cost some money. These large corporations are just gonna pass the cost of this on to you in the form of increased product prices.

[Azazello1313]

The software costs $39.00 to $100.00 and it'll merge with any database. Again, since you aren't a tax cheat and are already tracking these expenses, it is simply a merge function. I can't imagine it would take two people more than 1/2 a day, one day max.

 

Continue to make excuses for tax cheats. Nice.

 

if this were just about tracking payments for services, I would agree with you. that's where a lot of stuff goes on under the table, and I think the treasury probably gains enough as far as rooting out tax cheats to make it worth the costs it imposes. but for EVERY expenditure over $600, whether for services OR goods? that is kind of insane, not only for the burden it imposes on small business, but the burden it imposes on large providers of goods (like dell)....AND, the burden it imposes on the IRS. think about it, every business related purchase over $600 now gets its own 1099? how many new IRS employees is it going to require to wade through that mountain of paperwork and make sense of it? and it just seems like there is very little real benefit, compared with the system-wide administrative costs. do we really think dell and amazon and sams club are lying about their sales?

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

It appears that at least some might be interested to know that Representative Daniel Lungren (R-CA), has introduced legislation to repeal the requirement. The bill is H.R. 5141, The Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act.

 

StopForm1099.org

 

As far as implementing the requirement. When the time comes, I'll just set it up using MS Access. I've developed plenty of Access databases to help manage various processes. I'm sure Quickbooks etc. will offer addons for their programs for little cost or as part of an up-rev.

 

I don't think printing the forms and envelopes, and sending them out will be the issue for most. I think it will be tracking down the vendors' info and, if not available, dealing with the backup withholding requirements. I think this will be what kills the small business.

 

This is very simple. No W9, no payment.

[Azazello1313]

This is very simple. No W9, no payment.

 

that'll be a fun conversation at the home depot checkout line.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

I'm not too clear on the details, but my understanding is this... If I buy a computer from Dell, and it is over $600, I have to send Dell a 1099, is this correct?

It probably isn't going to cause that many problems for me, but how many problems is it going to cause for Dell, How many $600 + computers do they sell per year, 1 million, 2 million? That is a lot of paper work and processing. Other large companies, Home Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart will be receiving, millions upon millions of 1099s to process that they didn't have to process previously. That is where it is gonna cost some money. These large corporations are just gonna pass the cost of this on to you in the form of increased product prices.

 

The recipient of the 1099's generally just toss them in the trash. Their internal record keeping should back up their tax filings.

[i_am_the_swammi]

Its OK to hate change. My dad still uses a wired telephone for fear someone will hear his conversation.

[TimC]

Can't we just give the Government all our money and let them sort everything out for us?

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

I spent a few years filing the 1099's for our corporation. It can be a hugh pain in the ass. If anything, the new law may actually make it easier as you don't have to go through your payment and vendor listings with a fine tooth comb to determine who receives one. You just send to everyone. Much less labor intensive, except of course for the once a year printing mailing of a higher volume of forms.

 

In theory though, I agree that the government is putting too much of their responsibility on to businesses. What's your alternative though to capture people hiding income?

Edited July 14, 2010 by CaP'N GRuNGe