Lawn article on MSN

[Rovers]

Very good article that popped up on my homepage when I opened Internet Explorer.

 

The author is 95% spot on in this article.

 

http://realestate.msn.com/listarticle.aspx...7&Gt1=35000

 

Some of the comments left by readers, including one who claims to be a landscaper are flat out wrong. For one thing, it isn't expensive to do if you do it yourself. No need to rent a rototiller unless the soil has been compacted by heavy machinery. Just renting a power rake, aka dethatcher set at the deepest level will loosen the top layer of soil sufficiently. 75 bucks rental for a half day. Including seed and top soil, compost, peat moss (in the north) renovating a 2 to 4 thousand square foot front lawn this way will cost less than $200.

 

This same "landscaper" who left his comments has no clue, claiiming the author doesn't know the difference between a Josh Gordon and an herb. Any plant growing in a location it isn't desired in is a Josh Gordon. Grass in a flower bed is a Josh Gordon. Wild violets, pretty as they can be, in a lawn is a Josh Gordon. So are dandilions, despite the fact that they are edible.

 

The only thing I didn't like in the article was the use of straw mulch. I prefer peat moss instead for top coating over the seed. Then after dethatching, rremove most of the dead debris, but not all of it. It will decompose and add healthy organic material to the lawn. Then top coat the whole thing with compost, about 1 to 2 inches thick. Then seed, then peat moss, then starter fert. Then water it twice a day for about 10 minutes, being sure to avoid runoff or ponding.

 

Other than that, if you are fed up with your lawn, follow this article exactly (but use Roundup to kill the lawn, not plastic). I have renovated quite a few lawns this way (don't try this in the spring) and they are as near perfect as any lawn can be. People have watched me do this. They get very curious as they watch the entire lawn die. By November, the lawn looks mint. Then the phone rings, and I get another renovation job for the next fall.

 

I REFUSE to do this in the spring. Josh Gordon pressure is too great. It will look lousy. The new seedlings will not have time to develop a deep enough root system to stay in the mositure zone of the soil on hot days, no matter how much you water. Summer burn and die off is inevitable. Fall plantings have deeper more established root systems, so when the grass reaches the most stressful time of it's annual life cycle, July-August, it will survive.

 

But, this can be done by a homeowner for less than 200 bucks, easy. Be sure to use the very best seed, something with a Josh Gordon seed content of 0.01% or less. Excellent article. This is indeed, how to renovate a lawn properly.

[keggerz]

Mmmmmm dandylion salad Mmmmmm

Edited July 18, 2010 by keggerz

[ljbrun]

Very good article that popped up on my homepage when I opened Internet Explorer.

 

The author is 95% spot on in this article.

 

http://realestate.msn.com/listarticle.aspx...7&Gt1=35000

 

...Other than that, if you are fed up with your lawn, follow this article exactly (but use Roundup to kill the lawn, not plastic). ...

I trust what you say, but my intuitive fear would be that there's some residual effect from the Roundup.

 

So, I think, you suggest doing this in the Fall? Like Sept (for New England)?

 

Thanks Rovers!

[Chief Dick]

I trust what you say, but my intuitive fear would be that there's some residual effect from the Roundup.

 

So, I think, you suggest doing this in the Fall? Like Sept (for New England)?

 

Thanks Rovers!

 

Rovers, and the article, is spot on. We use the Round-up method here in the KC area and it works great. We typically kill the lawn in August, and reseed in September.

[Rovers]

I trust what you say, but my intuitive fear would be that there's some residual effect from the Roundup.

 

So, I think, you suggest doing this in the Fall? Like Sept (for New England)?

 

Thanks Rovers!

 

Geeze, eco-maniacs have really done a great job of scaring people. Glyphostae, the AI (active ingredient) in Roundup has easilly been the most studied and researched herbicide modern man ever made. It's halflife is very short. It breaks down into carbon. It ceases to be a chemical once sprayed after a few months. LD50 tests by the EPA have been repeated umpteen times. (LD50 is the toxicity of something usually orally administered to a test population of rats or mice, which is measured by how much the test animals can ingest before a lethal dose large enough to kill 50% of the test animals arrived at) The LD50 for glyphoste is extremely low. It's near on a par to table vinegar. Ingest enough of anything. it'll kill ya.

 

Glyphosate only acts on an enzyme found only in plants. This enzyme is not found in people, pets or even insects. The latest attack on Roundup isn't the glyphosate, it's on the inert additives, classified as such because the EPA determined them to be inert... stuff that doesn't change it's molecular structure very easilly unless subjected to extremes, like boiling. These additives are genrally derived from animal fat, like dish soap is. The only function of the additives is to help the AI stick to the leaf surface better to the target weeds. In fact, dish soap makes a reasonably good surfacticant, also called a sticker. The eco-nuts have now done skewed and faulted studies on the additives, because their faulted studies of glyphostae have all been disproven.

 

There are some glyphoste resistant crops now being genetically engineered, a very controversial subject, and one I am not in favor of. The idea is that farms could use these resistant crops so they can broadcast spray glyphoste over the crops, killing all plants but the cash crop itself. Not a good idea. I would not use glyphosate near edible crops at all. However, to kill a lawn? Yes, it is quite safe. The half life is 3 months, and in a year it's completely gone. Vinegar, the choice for many organic extremeists does not degrade. It stays there forever just about, and it's toxicity is cumulative.

 

Now, as to your question.... in your zone, I would spray the lawn around August7 or so. Around August 21, spray it again. On Sept 1, start the renovation work. Rent a power rake-dethatcher, rip up the dead stuff. Use a blower or a leaf rake to remove most of the dead debris, but not all of it. Remove any large rocks, but ignore the small ones. Use the power rake at it's deepest setting. That will get about 2 inches into the soil. Then follow what the article says, but be sure to add some quality (sterilized) compost and finish the leveling. This can be a pain in the butt, as compost ends to clump, and it has to be raked out. You can spread the compost and let it dry out for a day. The clumps will dry out a bit, and be easier to rake out. Compost adds more organic matter, very important for healthy soil. Be careful with buying top soil. Some suppliers that deal in bulk have too much sand in it. After watering, the sand comes to the surface, and sand is a very bad medium to grow grass on. So is clay. If you have a clay soil base, use much more compost, at least two inches thick before seeding.

 

And I cannot stress enough buying TOP quality seed. As mentioned in the article, get something with several varieties of strains. If a fungus attacks one strain, hopefully the other strains are more resistant to that type of fungus.

 

Kentucky blue grass is the prettiest ofall types of turf. If you go with KBG, make sure the mix has at least 3 varieties. If seeding in an area that gets a lot of shade, some creeping fescue in the mix is desirable. KBG likes sunlight, and in shaded areas it will come in very sparsley. The creeping fescues will have a slightly lighter green color, but that is the deal with shaded areas. Remove the trees, or work with them. That means using some creeping fescue seed. Make SURE about the Josh Gordon seed content. If it's 0.1%, it's lousy cheap seed. Don't skimp on seed. Buy the very best.

 

If you have any more questions, ask away.

[Rovers]

Rovers, and the article, is spot on. We use the Round-up method here in the KC area and it works great. We typically kill the lawn in August, and reseed in September.

 

CD, are you in the landscaping biz?

[Big John]

CD, are you in the landscaping biz?

HVAC sales

[Rovers]

HVAC sales

 

So.... does he regularly rip up lawns during installs?

[Chief Dick]

So.... does he regularly rip up lawns during installs?

 

Naw, just have does this for every house I've owned. Will be doing it at my current house that we just bought. Just need to do the back yard as the previous owner did the front. Only problem is he did bluegrass, and fescue tends to be a bit hardier here in the heat. So I be overseeding the front as well with fescue this fall.

[evil_gop_liars]

No need to rent a rototiller unless the soil has been compacted by heavy machinery. Just renting a power rake, aka dethatcher set at the deepest level will loosen the top layer of soil sufficiently. 75 bucks rental for a half day. Including seed and top soil, compost, peat moss (in the north) renovating a 2 to 4 thousand square foot front lawn this way will cost less than $200.

 

 

You can save a little time and energy by using a slit seeder but unfortunately most rental places don't carry them. If you do a good number of renovation a slit seeder is worth the investment.

[Rovers]

You can save a little time and energy by using a slit seeder but unfortunately most rental places don't carry them. If you do a good number of renovation a slit seeder is worth the investment.

 

I bought my power rake with the slit seeding option delta reel and seed bin. In my experience, I didn't like the damage caused to the turf by making several passes. It rips up the thatch and getting the debris off the lawn without removing the seed becomes problematic. Aside from that, I still prefer to kill it and amend the soil. Lawns that are really bad shape usually have a soil problem of one type or another or the thatch is so thick is simply has to be removed if the lawn is to support healthy turf.

 

For lawns that are salvagable, I like to aerate with 2 or 3 passes in the fall and overseed. That along with spot repairs seems to work pretty well. Still, if it's done right, a renovation will result in a lawn that looks as good as brand new sod without the seams.

[wiegie]

My yard is not bad, but there are some places where it has really thick thatch (not my fault as it was there when I bought my house two years ago). I was thinking about just hitting my yard with a power rake this year and overseeding. Would that work ok?

 

(I'm not about to redo my entire lawn as I have two young boys who would go crazy (or rather, drive me and my wife crazy) if they had to stay off of the lawn for a month.)

 

Edit: I hit it with an aerator last fall, but the thatch is still very thick (and stifling grass growth) in some areas.

Edited July 19, 2010 by wiegie

[dmarc117]

i may have done this without wanting too. i fertilized the other week, then went on vacation. it never rained and was in the 90s. came home and the weeds are dead, but so is the grass.

 

rover.....if you use roundup, how do you make sure it isnt still in the soil to kill the new stuff? tia

[Rovers]

My yard is not bad, but there are some places where it has really thick thatch (not my fault as it was there when I bought my house two years ago). I was thinking about just hitting my yard with a power rake this year and overseeding. Would that work ok?

 

(I'm not about to redo my entire lawn as I have two young boys who would go crazy (or rather, drive me and my wife crazy) if they had to stay off of the lawn for a month.)

 

Edit: I hit it with an aerator last fall, but the thatch is still very thick (and stifling grass growth) in some areas.

 

Deep dethatching used to be a very accepted practice, and many lanscapers still do it, either because they can (and bill for it) or don't know any better. All of the agricultural universities now discourage deep dethatching as it tends to do more damage to the root system than help it. If the thatch is 2 inches thick, it should be removed and brought down to bare dirt for spot lawn repairs. A dethatcher aka power rake can do that for you. Otherwise, repeated aerations are the recommended way to combat thatch buildup, but it also aerates the soil, something very important for the soil borne microbes need to keep the soil healthy. These microbes help the turf. The microbes live on organic matter, and break it down so the lawn can use nutrients in the soil more efficiently.

 

When you aerate, make at least 2 passes. Then overseed. You won't get very good germination rates this way, maybe 10% if you are lucky, (due to minimal soil to seed contact) but new seeds are more disease restistant these days, and it will help the lawn stay healthier over time.

[The Irish Doggy]

i may have done this without wanting too. i fertilized the other week, then went on vacation. it never rained and was in the 90s. came home and the weeds are dead, but so is the grass.

 

I'm no landscaping professional, but I've read a lot about it and discussed it with a few professional gardeners over the years.

 

Are you sure you used the correct amount of fertilizer? Too much, can cause the grass to die. Also, in hindsight, I wouldn't fertilize in the heat of summer. Pumping plants full of steroids when it is so hot and dry is usually a bad thing. Stick to fall as the #1 time and spring if you feel like it.

 

The grass may have just gone dormant with the heat and no water. Try giving it a good 1" watering - a tuna can works well to be sure you are getting the right amount.

 

Finally, how long do you let your grass grow? People who cut the grass short often have trouble keeping a green lawn because the grass is too short and looses water too fast. Longer grass (especially in summer) helps keep the ground cooler than shorter lawns and roots are happier - there have been studies on this. I cut my lawn at about 3 inches. It may be slightly longer than some other lawns, but it is green and I water half as much as they do. Longer grass helps cut down on weeds as well.

[Azazello1313]

[skins] did someone say tuna can? [/skins]

[Rovers]

i may have done this without wanting too. i fertilized the other week, then went on vacation. it never rained and was in the 90s. came home and the weeds are dead, but so is the grass.

 

rover.....if you use roundup, how do you make sure it isnt still in the soil to kill the new stuff? tia

 

You burnt your lawn. If you are going to fertilize in mid summer, be sure it is a low nitrogen fertilizer. I use a 6-0-0 fert with 14% iron in the summer. The first number, 6, is the nitrogen content. This is just enough nitrogen to make the grass uptake the iron, which will darken the lawn's color and help keep it green. It is also possible that the grass simply went dormant, and isn't dead. Grass will shut down when it gets very dry and hot. Depending upon just how bad it is, it may partially or fully green back up when temps come back down. Without looking at it, I can't say which problem you have. In any case, get some water on it.

 

Roundup is a post emergent herbicide. (pre-emergent herbicides like crabgrass preventer and products like Preen work in the soil, and interuprt the germination process of seeds) So, Roundup and things like lawn Josh Gordon sprays only work when they hit leaf surfaces. That is how they get absorbed into the plan'ts system and kill it. Once it's in the soil, it has little (or no) affect on seeds. Keep in mind, there are some Roundup formulations that also include pre-emergent herbicides, like Roundup extended control. That is intended for sidewalk cracks, and will interupt germination as well as killing anything that has a leaf on it. It can also be used in beds where only annuals and perenials will be planted. It won't bother established plants if they are planted after the Roundup is sprayed.

 

Roundup is a non selective herbicide. It will kill anything it hits that has a leaf surface on it. Lawn Josh Gordon killers are selective herbicides, typically attacking broadleaf weeds but not grass when applied properly. There are many different types of selective herbicides.

 

So, having regular Roundup in the soil won;t affect any seeding you may have planned to do. I generally wait a week after spraying before I renovate anyway, to give the Roundup a chance to finish off anything the first spraying didn't quite kill.

[Azazello1313]

mine is kind of displeasing the last couple years, but I don't think it is bad enough to go this far (I sure wish some of my neighbors would, though). my biggest annoyance at this point is crabgrass. I've also got a pretty decent thatch buildup in a lot of places. game plan at this point is a powerrake and core aeration followed by an overseed and good root-promiting fertilizer in september, then hit it with a crabgrass preventer next spring and see how it does. I also wish the lawn could be more level and less bumpy. is the best way to address that with one of those lawn rollers, or would that do any good on an established lawn?

[Rovers]

Doggy is correct about mowing height too. At the end of June I raise my machines from 3 inches to 3.5. It may not look as neat as a 3 inch cut, but it does help the soil to retain moisture by keeping the sun off the soil, and in addition, it helps shade the crown of the grass plant as well. This better enables the grass to deal with the heat. When the crown dries out, the grass will go dormant.

[dmarc117]

also, at our old place, i had a problem when i seeded. the new growing grass would get matted down by the lawnmower wheels. this matted down grass would then develop a moss like substance and the new grass would all die out. any hints?

[Rovers]

mine is kind of displeasing the last couple years, but I don't think it is bad enough to go this far (I sure wish some of my neighbors would, though). my biggest annoyance at this point is crabgrass. I've also got a pretty decent thatch buildup in a lot of places. game plan at this point is a powerrake and core aeration followed by an overseed and good root-promiting fertilizer in september, then hit it with a crabgrass preventer next spring and see how it does. I also wish the lawn could be more level and less bumpy. is the best way to address that with one of those lawn rollers, or would that do any good on an established lawn?

 

You can top dress the lawn with some compost to try and fill in the bumpy spots. No roller on an established lawn. They are used to compact a newly seeded lawn to improve soil to seed contact and help prevent erosion until the grass comes in.

 

If you are going to dethatch an area, I recommend getting it down to dirt and spot seeding.

 

Crabgrass preventers: I use two different herbicides for this. First is pendimethaline, the stuff Scotts uses and they call it Halts. It is effective, but does not offer "season long control" as Scotts claims. It does not have a long residual. Use it in April, and you will get some breakthrough in August. When I use pendi, I use it again around June 1st. That will get you through August.

 

The other is prodiamine. AKA Barricade. This has a much longer residual, but it's almost too long. It hangs around for a long time, and will interfere with the gremination rates of fall grass seedings. It can make fall spot repairs difficult to do sucessfully. I use it on badly infested lawns. If I have to do fall spot repairs, i dig some of the soil out and replace it with fresh top soil.

[Rovers]

also, at our old place, i had a problem when i seeded. the new growing grass would get matted down by the lawnmower wheels. this matted down grass would then develop a moss like substance and the new grass would all die out. any hints?

 

Hard to say without seeing it, but it could be a fungus problem. How big is your mower? how heavy? i use my small 21 inch mower on new grass until it has been mowed a few times, as the big machine will mat it. The young seedlings are fragile. Big mower tires will damage it.

[matt770]

I have a problem with stray cats Athenaing and pissing on my grass. I tried trapping them and taking them to the SPCA, but the crazy cat ladies just keep collecting more and setting them loose. Any tips for keeping the little bastards away, legal of course?

[Rovers]

I have a problem with stray cats Athenaing and pissing on my grass. I tried trapping them and taking them to the SPCA, but the crazy cat ladies just keep collecting more and setting them loose. Any tips for keeping the little bastards away, legal of course?

 

I got nuthin on this question. Get a dog?

[smithkt]

I'll have to get in touch with you next year and see if I can get you to come out and take a look at my lawn. It's in bad shape. Money is a little tight this year.