nuke'em ttg Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Is there a list like this of players that actually made smart decisions. I've heard Elway has a bunch of car dealerships, Alan Page a judge, Tim Dwight invested in lake property in Minnesota. Be nice ta see some success stories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 does he own the judge forever or is it just a lease? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 I believe Elway sold all his dealerships. I have never seen a listing of successful ex-players maybe because they are so rare. From what I can gather, Roger Staubach has been extremely successful but then again I would guess most ex-cowboys are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 I believe Elway sold all his dealerships. I have never seen a listing of successful ex-players maybe because they are so rare. From what I can gather, Roger Staubach has been extremely successful but then again I would guess most ex-cowboys are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Given that he played well before the mega-contracts, I think that Fran Terkenton has done pretty well with his post-football motivational speaking career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) I believe Elway sold all his dealerships. I have never seen a listing of successful ex-players maybe because they are so rare. From what I can gather, Roger Staubach has been extremely successful but then again I would guess most ex-cowboys are... or lucky see Henderson, Hollywood and Nate Newton had a big dealership Edited April 17, 2011 by Zooty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I would guess most ex-cowboys are... Eugene Lockhart and Godfrey Myles have a successful business. Dwayne Goodrich is a pillar of the community. Honestly, the two guys that popped into my mind were Staubach and Aikman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Given that he played well before the mega-contracts, I think that Fran Terkenton has done pretty well with his post-football motivational speaking career. These days any player who's gotten a big payday just needs to essentially not be dumb - DON'T spend it like you're getting a $3 million windfall every few years; hire a certified financial professional to help you out not you're Uncle Bernie; etc etc. I know that a large number of the Lombardi Packers ended up being succesful businessmen, or at least financially well-off - Willie Davis, Ray Nitschke, Jerry Kramer, Max McGee, Bart Starr, Forrest Gregg, Paul Hornung all did well for themselves. And then you had guys like Lionel Aldridge and Travis Williams, who didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) I would like to see what percentage of guys who actually make "eff-you" money in the league that end up broke. My guess is that it's not as bad as we think. When you hear about the enormous number of former players who are broke, you have to think that mostly includes guys who played one or two years at the league minimum. Is that a lot of cash? Absolutely. Is that enough cash for a savvy guy to start a business, probably, but that assumes a 22 year old kid who just signed a $250 K contract is going to start saving every penny. That's an expectation that most of us would fail to meet. Especially when the people you are hanging out with, all make bank. So, if you last only 2 years, you're lucky to be sitting on $250K when it's over. Oh, and by the way, you've been spoon fed football and nothing but football for the last 12 years, so you've got that going for you. Further, I'm guessing those numbers are historical, so you've got a lot of guys who played when marginal players made nothing near that. Still good money for the times, but not amazing money at all. As far as the rest, like Chavez said, guys who truly make it these days, don't need to be "successful" after their career to do very nice. My guess is that most of those guys do. If there's any incentive to go on to post-paying careers, it's likely just the drive that some have. That said, it does irk me to see the degree to which we fawn over players who manage to amount to something in their post playing days. Let me get this straight. Somehow, against all odds, you managed to parlay a ton of capital and an adoring public into a profitable business. Wow, what's your secret? Edited April 19, 2011 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Quick math ... Say, you play a few years and signed one decent contract along they way ... lived in a modest house (a few hundred thousand dollars) and watch your expenses while playing ... and after paying living expenses, agents, etc, you end up with $5 million in the bank when you're done. You put that with a very conservative bond manager and earn 4% / yr on short and intermediate terms bonds ... that's $200,000 year ... Pay your taxes (40% for federal, state and local), and end up with $10,000 / month for sitting on your butt the rest of your life. That's pretty good pay today, but may not be much 30-50 years from now (inflation and all). Besides, guys who've spent their whole life "doing something" rarely want to sit on their butts and "do nothing" until they die. They want to take a risk and start a business, etc. As a result, they often times blow their nest egg ... which is no different than what happens to many others when they start a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Again, I'm really curious what percentage of NFL players (anyone who has ever made a squad and played at least one year), earn over $1 million in their entire career. I would hope that I would be the guy in Muck's model only, instead of starting my own business, just parlaying my relative fame into a normal job. I man, there's a middle ground between sitting on your ass and collecting $200K in interest on your pile and risking it all in a business venture. There's selling insurance or working at a Sporting goods store, or any number of things. And,even if you only scratch out 30K doing that, it's on top of the 200K you're already making. Continue living on the 200K and push the 30 against the nest egg. That builds and makes the plan more inflation proof. Then again, I'd be a testosterone-addled 22 year old who just got paid and feels invincible. I'd have to think I'm going to blow at least a bit of that jack right off the bat before I get smart and realize I need to save some. So, you can lop just a bit off that $5 million right there. And I don't think this is unique to athletes. I knew kids who came into inheritances when they turned 21 and it wasn't like they were super wise with the jack either. Educated kids from good homes. Of course, they also had the skills (and last names) to survive in the business world, so it's not like they absolutely had to make that money last their whole life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 JaMarcus Russell invested in pharmaceuticals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Again, I'm really curious what percentage of NFL players (anyone who has ever made a squad and played at least one year), earn over $1 million in their entire career. I'd guess the vast predomninance of players earn over $1M According to the Management statistics, the average career of a player who makes a roster is 6 years. They say the commonly bandied about 3.5 year career is skewed by rookies who do not make an NFL roster. link There are detailed numbers in a link on the cited study. If we accept that to be true - and the detailed stats show that it is reasonably reliable - we can look at the last picks in last yeaar's draft and see their contract details. We can see that Josh Hull of the Rams, the second to last player drafted last year, signed a 4 year deal worth $1.8255M. link Click on the link to his contract history. That infers that the vast majority of players earn well over $1M in their careers. In fact, it infers that the average player earns at least $2M in their careers if the group we are looking at is guys who actually made their initial roster.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Quick math ... Say, you play a few years and signed one decent contract along they way ... lived in a modest house (a few hundred thousand dollars) and watch your expenses while playing ... and after paying living expenses, agents, etc, you end up with $5 million in the bank when you're done. You put that with a very conservative bond manager and earn 4% / yr on short and intermediate terms bonds ... that's $200,000 year ... Pay your taxes (40% for federal, state and local), and end up with $10,000 / month for sitting on your butt the rest of your life. That's pretty good pay today, but may not be much 30-50 years from now (inflation and all). Besides, guys who've spent their whole life "doing something" rarely want to sit on their butts and "do nothing" until they die. They want to take a risk and start a business, etc. As a result, they often times blow their nest egg ... which is no different than what happens to many others when they start a business. You missed something there - that's $200K a year without ever touching the principal - meaning that after living on $10K a month for 30 years, the $5M is still there untouched waiting for you. So if you decide to work for someone - I agree, some people actually want to work for more than a few years in their lives - you gain both from the interest income and your wages, with the $5M still sitting untouched when you decide to retire. I also think your tax rate might be a bit high since the interest income is going to be capital gains. But those are some very good points of discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Here's some more information: LeGarrette Blount made $405K last year alone signing as an UDFA. Now he will be negotiating as a RFA for a multiyear deal. He already is 40% of the way to his $1M after 1 year and would seem certain to sign a deal that will get him there by the end of next year. link Click on contract details Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'd guess the vast predomninance of players earn over $1M According to the Management statistics, the average career of a player who makes a roster is 6 years. They say the commonly bandied about 3.5 year career is skewed by rookies who do not make an NFL roster. link There are detailed numbers in a link on the cited study. If we accept that to be true - and the detailed stats show that it is reasonably reliable - we can look at the last picks in last yeaar's draft and see their contract details. We can see that Josh Hull of the Rams, the second to last player drafted last year, signed a 4 year deal worth $1.8255M. link Click on the link to his contract history. That infers that the vast majority of players earn well over $1M in their careers. In fact, it infers that the average player earns at least $2M in their careers if the group we are looking at is guys who actually made their initial roster.. I wonder what criteria is used when they discuss "former players" who are now broke. Do they also include rookies who never made an opening day roster? I would hope that they'd only be including guys who actually made rosters and thus, were spending the 6 years on average that your link supports. Thanks, though, for the stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I wonder what criteria is used when they discuss "former players" who are now broke. Do they also include rookies who never made an opening day roster? I would hope that they'd only be including guys who actually made rosters and thus, were spending the 6 years on average that your link supports. Thanks, though, for the stats. I would think a lot of this is skewed by the sensationalist mentality - "former NFL player broke, dying of AIDs" is a better story than "thousands of former NFL players carve out comfortable upper-middle class existence." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) I would think a lot of this is skewed by the sensationalist mentality - "former NFL player broke, dying of AIDs" is a better story than "thousands of former NFL players carve out comfortable upper-middle class existence." This read might change your mind: SI's "How (and Why) Athletes Go Broke" From the article: reports from a host of sources (athletes, players' associations, agents and financial advisers) indicate that: By the time they have been retired for two years, 78% of former NFL players have gone bankrupt or are under financial stress because of joblessness or divorce. This indicates that the statistics refer to NFL players, not the larger pool of former draft choices. That would put these guys in the 6-year-average-career category. Edited April 21, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I also think your tax rate might be a bit high since the interest income is going to be capital gains. Interest income is not capital gains. It's interest income and is taxed at the same rate as income earned from a job. Capital gains comes only from the sale of an asset previously purchased at prices in excess of the price paid (after depreciation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 This read might change your mind: SI's "How (and Why) Athletes Go Broke" From the article: reports from a host of sources (athletes, players' associations, agents and financial advisers) indicate that: By the time they have been retired for two years, 78% of former NFL players have gone bankrupt or are under financial stress because of joblessness or divorce. This indicates that the statistics refer to NFL players, not the larger pool of former draft choices. That would put these guys in the 6-year-average-career category. The staggering thing is that it sounds like Ismail got his degree from Notre Dame. How do you manage that and not pick up even a shred of fiscal sanity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Interest income is not capital gains. It's interest income and is taxed at the same rate as income earned from a job. Capital gains comes only from the sale of an asset previously purchased at prices in excess of the price paid (after depreciation). You are correct. My mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 The staggering thing is that it sounds like Ismail got his degree from Notre Dame. How do you manage that and not pick up even a shred of fiscal sanity? I agree, but the thing that really perplexes me is that all the current players can plainly see just like we can what is happening to these former players and how they have pissed their money away, and yet I don't think it's modifying the way the current and incoming players are reacting and responding to it. I know this is part of the education seminars that the league puts on for rookies. How can you watch so many former players squander their money and not do something to make sure you're not one of the next line of financial disaster stories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I agree, but the thing that really perplexes me is that all the current players can plainly see just like we can what is happening to these former players and how they have pissed their money away, and yet I don't think it's modifying the way the current and incoming players are reacting and responding to it. I know this is part of the education seminars that the league puts on for rookies. How can you watch so many former players squander their money and not do something to make sure you're not one of the next line of financial disaster stories? Especially since it seems like many are simply the fault of bad investments. I mean, forget about all the guys who can't keep their dicks in their pants and have 13 kids and generally act like complete and total idiots 24/7. Whatever, you're going to lose those guys anyway. But, back to Ismail. It didn't seem like dude pissed his money away buying Cristal for the entire bar every night. It seemed like he did so with one bad investment after another. These guys don't need to swing for the fences, they already did that with the career path they chose. Muck's example was even needlessly conservative and still ended up setting a guy up for life, even if he never works another day in his life. These guys certainly have enough time on their side to invest in more risky props than a 4% bond portfolio, but one that still is far less speculative as all these small ventures the guys get lured into and easily double that 4% number over the long haul. And if they would simply spend a fraction of that money on a money manager who doesn't go by a nickname, they could forget about everything. Doesn't the player's union have a list of reputable financial guys? I mean, that would be a sweet, sweet gig. Sweet enough that truly reputable brokers to take very, very seriously to stay on the inside. Then the players don't have to know dick about what is going on with their money, they just need to know that there's enough smart guys in the union that these are certainly people they can trust with their money. Problem (mostly) solved. You still want to be a total idiot and not buy in? Go ahead, but I think you could chop that bankruptcy rate into a much smaller number. You want to buy your mom a house and get her out of the hood? That's a great and honorable idea. And you can find her something 10x better than what she's got for 200K. Done. And, in nearly every market, that's a big enough house for your siblings as well. Maybe if you've got a bunch, you size up to $350, that's cool. My neighborhood is absolutely fine and that buys about as nice a house as you can get in it. And it's not like I live in the middle of the sticks or something and the schools are fine. And it's an investment anyways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 That might be one of the reasons why some of the Owners seem to have a condescending attitude towards the Players during CBA negotiations. They realize that they are not dealing with serious businessmen, but oftentimes spoiled, overgrown children who don't seem to understand how to protect their own piece of the pie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 That might be one of the reasons why some of the Owners seem to have a condescending attitude towards the Players during CBA negotiations. They realize that they are not dealing with serious businessmen, but oftentimes spoiled, overgrown children who don't seem to understand how to protect their own piece of the pie. The owners want the players to take a pay cut so they can build bigger stadiums to bring in more slices of pie. It's smart business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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