Lets get the race wars started!

[bpwallace49]

London tries tripling police presence to end riots

Beleaguered British police triple their numbers on London streets to clamp down on rioters

 

LONDON (AP) -- London began nearly tripling the number of police on its streets Tuesday to try to end Britain's worst rioting in a generation -- three nights of looting and burning by poor, diverse and brazen crowds of young people. Meanwhile, however, the chaos spread to at least one more major city.

 

Scenes of ransacked stores, torched cars and blackened buildings frightened and outraged Britons just a year before London is to host the Olympics. London's Metropolitan Police force said Tuesday it would flood the streets with 16,000 officers over the next 24 hours, but acknowledged they could not guarantee an end to the violence.

 

"We have lots of information to suggest that there may be similar disturbances tonight," Cmdr. Simon Foy told the BBC. "That's exactly the reason why the Met (police force) has chosen to now actually really 'up the game' and put a significant number of officers on the streets."

 

In Manchester, which previously hadn't seen violence, police said seven people were arrested Tuesday as youths rampaged through the center of the northwestern city. Firefighters said a clothing store in the city center and a disused library in nearby Salford were set on fire.

 

Assistant Chief Constable Terry Sweeney of the Greater Manchester police department urged residents to avoid the city center. "A handful of shops have been attacked by groups of youths who have congregated and seem intent on committing disorder," he said.

 

The riots started Saturday with a protest over a police shooting in London's Tottenham neighborhood, but have morphed into a general lawlessness in London and several other cities that police have struggled to halt with ordinary tactics. While the rioters have run off with sneakers, bikes, electronics and leather goods, they also have torched stores apparently just for the fun of seeing something burn.

 

Rioters, able to move quickly and regroup to avoid the police, were left virtually unchallenged in several neighborhoods, plundering stores at will.

 

Police in Britain generally avoid tear gas, water cannons or other strong-arm riot measures, but they said they were considering the use of plastic bullets -- blunt-nosed projectiles designed to deal punishing blows to rioters without penetrating the skin. Such weapons, formally called baton rounds, still are used to quell riots in Northern Ireland but have never been used by police in Britain itself.

 

Stores, offices and nursery schools in several parts of London closed early amid fears of fresh rioting Tuesday night, though pubs and restaurants were open. Police in one London district, Islington, advised people not to be out on the streets "unless absolutely necessary."

 

In central England, police said they made five arrests in Birmingham and dispersed a small group of people who torched two cars in the center of West Bromwich, a nearby town. Shops were targeted by rioters in the city of Wolverhampton, police said.

 

In London, riots and looting have flared from gritty suburbs along the capital's fringes to the posh Notting Hill neighborhood. The disorder has caused heartache for Londoners whose businesses and homes were torched or looted, and a crisis for police and politicians already staggering from a spluttering economy and a scandal over illegal phone hacking by a tabloid newspaper that has dragged in senior politicians and police.

 

"The public wanted to see tough action. They wanted to see it sooner and there is a degree of frustration," said Andrew Silke, head of the criminology department at the University of East London.

 

So far more than 560 people have been arrested in London and more than 100 charged, and the capital's prison cells were overflowing. Several dozen more were arrested in other cities. The Crown Prosecution Service said it had teams of lawyers working 24 hours a day to help police decide whether to charge suspects.

 

Silke said it will be hard to control the rioting until police make larger numbers of arrests.

 

"People are seeing images of lines of police literally running away from rioters," he said. "For young people that is incredibly empowering. They are breaking the rules. They are getting away with it. No one is able to stop them."

 

The unrest was Britain's worst since race riots set the capital ablaze in the 1980s. Groups of young people set buildings, vehicles and garbage dumps on fire, looted stores and pelted police officers with bottles and fireworks.

 

London's beleaguered police force noted that it received more than 20,000 emergency calls on Monday -- four times the normal number. Scotland Yard has called in reinforcements from around the country and asked all volunteer special constables to report for duty.

 

A soccer match scheduled for Wednesday between England and the Netherlands at London's Wembley stadium was canceled to free up police officers for riot duty.

 

Police launched a murder inquiry after a man found with a gunshot wound during riots in the south London suburb of Croydon died of his injuries Tuesday. Police said 111 officers and 14 members of the public were hurt over the three days of rioting, including a man in his 60s with life-threatening injuries.

 

Prime Minister David Cameron -- who cut short a holiday in Italy to deal with the crisis -- recalled Parliament from its summer recess for an emergency debate on the riots and looting. He described the scenes of burning buildings and smashed windows as "sickening," but refrained from tougher measures such as calling in the military to help police restore order.

 

"People should be in no doubt that we will do everything necessary to restore order to Britain's streets and to make them safe for the law-abiding," Cameron told reporters after a crisis meeting at his Downing Street office.

 

Parliament will return to duty on Thursday, as the political fallout from the rampage takes hold. The crisis is a major test for Cameron's Conservative-led coalition government.

 

Other politicians visited riot sites Tuesday -- but for many residents it was too little, too late.

 

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg was booed by crowds who shouted "Go home!" in Birmingham, while London Mayor Boris Johnson -- who flew back overnight from his summer vacation -- was heckled on a shattered shopping street in Clapham, south London.

 

Johnson said the riots would not stop London from "welcoming the world to our city" for the Olympics.

 

"We have time in the next 12 months to rebuild, to repair the damage that has been done," he said. "I'm not saying it will be done overnight, but this is what we are going to do."

 

Violence first broke out late Saturday in the low-income, multiethnic district of Tottenham in north London, after a protest against the fatal police shooting of Mark Duggan, a 29-year-old father of four who was gunned down in disputed circumstances Thursday.

 

Police said Duggan was shot dead when officers from Operation Trident -- the unit that investigates gun crime in the black community -- stopped a cab he was riding in.

 

The Independent Police Complaints Commission, which is investigating the shooting, said a "non-police firearm" was recovered at the scene, but that there was no evidence it had been fired -- a revelation that could fuel the anger of the local community.

 

An inquest into Duggan's death was opened Tuesday, though it will likely be several months before a full hearing.

 

Duggan's death stirred memories of the 1980s, when many black Londoners felt they were disproportionately stopped and searched by police. The frustration erupted in violent riots in 1985.

 

Relations have improved since then but tensions remain, and many young people of all races mistrust the police.

 

Others pointed to rising social tensions in Britain as the government slashes 80 billion pounds ($130 billion) from public spending by 2015 to reduce the huge deficit, swollen after the country spent billions bailing out its foundering banks.

 

Many rioters appeared to relish the opportunity for violence Monday night. "Come join the fun!" shouted one youth as looters hit the east London suburb of Hackney.

 

In Hackney, one of the boroughs hosting next year's Olympics, hundreds of youths left a trail of burning trash and shattered glass. Looters ransacked a convenience store, filling plastic shopping bags with alcohol, cigarettes, candy and toilet paper.

 

In Croydon, fire gutted a 140-year-old family run department store, House of Reeves, and forced nearby homes to be evacuated.

 

"I'm the fifth generation to run this place," said owner Graham Reeves, 52. "I have two daughters. They would have been he sixth.

 

"No one's stolen anything," he said. "They just burnt it down."

 

On Tuesday, as Londoners emerged with brooms to help sweep the streets of broken glass, many called for police to use water cannons, tear gas or rubber bullets to disperse rioters, or bring out the military for support. Although security forces in Northern Ireland regularly use all those methods, they have not been seen on the mainland in decades.

 

Conservative lawmaker Patrick Mercer said that policy should be reconsidered.

 

"They should have the tools available and they should use them if the commander on the ground thinks it's necessary," he said.

 

The government rejected the calls.

 

"The way we police in Britain is not through use of water cannon," Home Secretary Theresa May told Sky News. "The way we police in Britain is through consent of communities."

 

The riots could not have come at a worse time for police -- a year before the Olympic Games, which Scotland Yard says will be the biggest challenge in its 182-year history.

 

The government has slashed police budgets as part of its spending cuts. A report last month by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary said the cuts -- a third of which have already taken place -- will mean 16,000 fewer police officers by 2015.

 

Opposition Labour lawmaker David Winnick said the government should scrap its plan to cut police numbers.

 

"I think it's absolute madness in view of what's happened over the last few nights," he said.

 

The force also is without a full-time leader after chief Paul Stephenson quit last month amid a scandal over the ties between senior officers and Rupert Murdoch's British newspapers, which are being investigated for hacking phone voicemails and bribing police for information. The force's top counterterrorism officer, John Yates, also quit over the hacking scandal.

 

Police representatives say officers are demoralized, and feel a sense of betrayal by politicians and their leaders.

 

Constable Paul Deller, a 25-year veteran working in a police control center during Monday's violence, said the rioting was "horrific."

 

He acknowledged there were not enough officers on the streets to stop it, but said "we gave it everything we could."

 

David Stringer, Raphael Satter, Sheila Norman-Culp, Meera Selva and Stephen Wilson contributed to this report.

 

So has this already begun in the US in WI? or should we anticipate the racial/war with the poor in the next 2-3 years?

[SEC=UGA]

Talk about a topic that could spiral out of control and get gunned quickly...

 

Many of these issues have a little less to do with race and more to do with culture. There is a very interesting book, the title escapes me at this point as I read it more than a dozen years ago, but the premise is this: Throughout history you can chart the downfall of civilizations as their empire/country became more diverse. When you begin to have an influx of foreigners, with differing political ideologies, religions, and in many cases, races, they become a destabilizing factor. As they begin to comprise a larger portion of the population they exert their will, often violently. Much of this because they perceive that they being are repressed by the majority culture/race that is ruling the country in which they live. In many cases the conquered or minority populations do live in substandard conditions when compared to the majority, these economic factors also play a role in the overall dissatisfaction of the minority population.

 

The best way to keep a country stable is to ensure that the homogeneity of the country remains in tact.

 

One may ask, how did the US manage to survive for so long as a "melting pot"? Well, we are a pretty homogeneous. Most of the composition of this country has historically been white and protestant. If you recall, during the Irish and Italian immigration cycles, there was a good bit of unrest. However, outside of certain cities these groups never really comprised a large enough group to destabilize the country as a whole. That, and they were able to more easily blend in given their similar appearance and for the most part political ideology.

 

Currently, the US may be going through a destabilizing cycle as minority religions, races, and cultures begin to grow in this country and begin to exert their influence into the American mainstream. Most certainly parts of Europe are going to experience this soon with the influx of immigrants from North Africa who hail from very different cultures and are easily identified as foreigners.

 

Fortunately/Unfortunately, these countries will eventually collapse and take a different shape and character than what we have known as the foreign demographic out reproduces and eventually out populates the indigenous cultures. Until that time, they will cause strife and moderate change, but when the tipping point is reached, it's all over.

[Tboogs]

Talk about a topic that could spiral out of control and get gunned quickly...

 

Many of these issues have a little less to do with race and more to do with culture. There is a very interesting book, the title escapes me at this point as I read it more than a dozen years ago, but the premise is this: Throughout history you can chart the downfall of civilizations as their empire/country became more diverse. When you begin to have an influx of foreigners, with differing political ideologies, religions, and in many cases, races, they become a destabilizing factor. As they begin to comprise a larger portion of the population they exert their will, often violently. Much of this because they perceive that they being are repressed by the majority culture/race that is ruling the country in which they live. In many cases the conquered or minority populations do live in substandard conditions when compared to the majority, these economic factors also play a role in the overall dissatisfaction of the minority population.

 

The best way to keep a country stable is to ensure that the homogeneity of the country remains in tact.

 

One may ask, how did the US manage to survive for so long as a "melting pot"? Well, we are a pretty homogeneous. Most of the composition of this country has historically been white and protestant. If you recall, during the Irish and Italian immigration cycles, there was a good bit of unrest. However, outside of certain cities these groups never really comprised a large enough group to destabilize the country as a whole. That, and they were able to more easily blend in given their similar appearance and for the most part political ideology.

 

Currently, the US may be going through a destabilizing cycle as minority religions, races, and cultures begin to grow in this country and begin to exert their influence into the American mainstream. Most certainly parts of Europe are going to experience this soon with the influx of immigrants from North Africa who hail from very different cultures and are easily identified as foreigners.

 

Fortunately/Unfortunately, these countries will eventually collapse and take a different shape and character than what we have known as the foreign demographic out reproduces and eventually out populates the indigenous cultures. Until that time, they will cause strife and moderate change, but when the tipping point is reached, it's all over.

[/quote

 

Are you speaking of Jared Diamond's "Collaspe"? Excellent read!

[bpwallace49]

Talk about a topic that could spiral out of control and get gunned quickly...

 

Many of these issues have a little less to do with race and more to do with culture. There is a very interesting book, the title escapes me at this point as I read it more than a dozen years ago, but the premise is this: Throughout history you can chart the downfall of civilizations as their empire/country became more diverse. When you begin to have an influx of foreigners, with differing political ideologies, religions, and in many cases, races, they become a destabilizing factor. As they begin to comprise a larger portion of the population they exert their will, often violently. Much of this because they perceive that they being are repressed by the majority culture/race that is ruling the country in which they live. In many cases the conquered or minority populations do live in substandard conditions when compared to the majority, these economic factors also play a role in the overall dissatisfaction of the minority population.The best way to keep a country stable is to ensure that the homogeneity of the country remains in tact.

 

One may ask, how did the US manage to survive for so long as a "melting pot"? Well, we are a pretty homogeneous. Most of the composition of this country has historically been white and protestant. If you recall, during the Irish and Italian immigration cycles, there was a good bit of unrest. However, outside of certain cities these groups never really comprised a large enough group to destabilize the country as a whole. That, and they were able to more easily blend in given their similar appearance and for the most part political ideology.

 

Currently, the US may be going through a destabilizing cycle as minority religions, races, and cultures begin to grow in this country and begin to exert their influence into the American mainstream. Most certainly parts of Europe are going to experience this soon with the influx of immigrants from North Africa who hail from very different cultures and are easily identified as foreigners.

 

Fortunately/Unfortunately, these countries will eventually collapse and take a different shape and character than what we have known as the foreign demographic out reproduces and eventually out populates the indigenous cultures. Until that time, they will cause strife and moderate change, but when the tipping point is reached, it's all over.

 

Um . . you mean until slavery ended?

 

And i would offer that the underlying economic factors are the most important overall in this theory. The rest is window dressing compared to that very basic tenement of economic disparity.

[Azazello1313]

There is a very interesting book, the title escapes me at this point as I read it more than a dozen years ago, but the premise is this: Throughout history you can chart the downfall of civilizations as their empire/country became more diverse. When you begin to have an influx of foreigners, with differing political ideologies, religions, and in many cases, races, they become a destabilizing factor.

 

mein kampf?

[Savage Beatings]

Those rascals... they just want to take our stuff without earning it in any way whatsoever. No big deal.

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Helter Skelter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In many ways the authorities are motivating the youths to continue. Their response has given them status and goals. It now seems meaningful.

 

I am not suggesting the response is wrong. I just note the phenomenon with interest. Too bad my interest does not stir me to a solution. Just noting.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Ditkaless Wonders

[Avernus]

[Ursa Majoris]

Poverty, my ass. This has nothing to do with poverty and everything to do with love of violence and thieving.

 

ETA: And nothing to do with race, either.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Ursa Majoris

[Puddy]

 

3rd pic down pisses me off...

[Big John]

3rd pic down pisses me off...

For the combination of the and ?

[millerx]

So has this already begun in the US in WI? or should we anticipate the racial/war with the poor in the next 2-3 years?

huh? should we anticipate a racial or a war?? or do you mean a race war with the poor?? and if so, what does race have to do with being poor??

 

Um . . you mean until slavery ended?

 

And i would offer that the underlying economic factors are the most important overall in this theory. The rest is window dressing compared to that very basic tenement of economic disparity.

I know you're not suggesting that even though their disparity doesn't even come close to comparing to true poverty seen in other highly industrialized countries that this makes a case for re-distribution of wealth, right? So what is your point?

Edited August 10, 2011 by millerx

[Puddy]

For the combination of the and ?

Look at the store they are looting

[SEC=UGA]

Um . . you mean until slavery ended?

 

And i would offer that the underlying economic factors are the most important overall in this theory. The rest is window dressing compared to that very basic tenement of economic disparity.

 

I'm not sure I understand the first comment.

 

The rest is not window dressing compared to economic disparity, though economic disparity does play a role.

[Big John]

Look at the store they are looting

You mean 6th photo instead of 3rd?

[BillyBalata]

You mean 6th photo instead of 3rd?

 

 

I did the same thing you did John, until i realized the first pic is actually a video so i don't think Puddy is counting that one as the first pic.

[Big John]

I did the same thing you did John, until i realized the first pic is actually a video so i don't think Puddy is counting that one as the first pic.

, still 5th photo.

[westvirginia]

London's burning: A mob caused by the welfare state

[cliaz]

Meh, LA riots were more impressive

[Puddy]

, still 5th photo.

3rd photo....as well as the fifth I guess. The third actually shows them bastards breaking in.

[Ursa Majoris]

London's burning: A mob caused by the welfare state

Every word of this is true but I would add that the emasculation of the police and authority in general is also playing a large role (as the article does point out).

[nuke'em ttg]

what's their major malfunction......in 20 words or less

[nuke'em ttg]

3rd photo....as well as the fifth I guess. The third actually shows them bastards breaking in.

 

 

i'd hit a Carhartt store before a liquor store anyday, that's some good chit right there

[fingfootball]

i'd hit a Carhartt store before a liquor store anyday, that's some good chit right there

 

Hell yeah, reminds me that I need a new pair of bibs before winter.

[Puddy]

Hell yeah, reminds me that I need a new pair of bibs before winter.

I'm yer huckleberry.