Surprise, surprise, surprise

[MojoMan]

Mojo, I SERIOUSLY don't mean this the wrong way...

 

I'm the son of immigrant parents who had to learn English. I'm also the son of parents who lost their house to the bank (sure, I can say partly because of mis-management of money). I'm also the son of parents who are forking over their future AND mine to put me through college so I can achieve "the American Dream."

 

I'm young, irresponsible and dumb. Please reiterate your solution to America's fiasco. I'm SERIOUSLY trying to see your side. Do I support everything Democrats are trying to do? No. Do I see better solutions by Republicans? I don't think so. But I could be wrong. Please explain sir. Again, I'm only 23.

 

Goop,

 

I wish I did but I do not have the solution to America's fiasco. However, I see some gross inequities in what has been proposed.

 

I'm the grandson of immigrant grandparents who immigrated before the great American teat (they came between 1905 and 1920).

 

My grandparents knew rudimentary English at best but they raised families and built businesses and educated their children. They inculcated in their children a strong work ethic.

 

My oldest uncles and aunts went to school not knowing any English. These people (members of the Greatest Generation), worked on their parents' farms, studied, and bettered themselves through education. There was no ESL in the 40s.

 

My uncles and aunts have worked as both farmers and doctors and have made a lot of money and a little money. My cousins have spanned a similar diversity in both personal and financial "success." The eldest of my second cousins once removed have been less financially successful...maybe due to complacency...dunno.

 

However, I don't think that any of us have sucked on the gummit teat. My grandparents knew that if they failed, they might have to go back to the old country (but how would they pay...their families had no $) or they would have to work hard and get by.

 

That's what I'm asking for....personal responsibility. You are responsible for you...don't depend on Uncle Sam.

 

I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum here but, given our current financial struggles, I'm curious what others think.

Edited September 15, 2011 by MojoMan

[MojoMan]

Would those of you who favor "taxing the rich" at least admit that, in many cases, this is unfair?

[SEC=UGA]

Would those of you who favor "taxing the rich" at least admit that, in many cases, this is unfair?

 

Do you realize what you just did...

[bushwacked]

Who are the ones focused on the class warfare schtick again? Libs or conservatives?

[Grande F'n Juan]

Mojo, I SERIOUSLY don't mean this the wrong way...

 

I'm the son of immigrant parents who had to learn English. I'm also the son of parents who lost their house to the bank (sure, I can say partly because of mis-management of money). I'm also the son of parents who are forking over their future AND mine to put me through college so I can achieve "the American Dream."

 

I'm young, irresponsible and dumb. Please reiterate your solution to America's fiasco. I'm SERIOUSLY trying to see your side. Do I support everything Democrats are trying to do? No. Do I see better solutions by Republicans? I don't think so. But I could be wrong. Please explain sir. Again, I'm only 23.

 

I have a lawn mowing position open....

[Goopster24]

Goop,

 

I wish I did but I do not have the solution to America's fiasco. However, I see some gross unfairness in what has been proposed.

 

I'm the grandson of immigrant grandparents who immigrated before the great American teat (they came between 1905 and 1920).

 

My grandparents knew rudimentary English at best but they raised families and built businesses and educated their children. They inculcated in their children a strong work ethic.

 

My oldest uncles and aunts went to school not knowing any English. These people (members of the Greatest Generation), worked on their parents' farms, studied, and bettered themselves through education. There was no ESL in the 40s.

 

My uncles and aunts have worked as both farmers and doctors and have made a lot of money and a little money. My cousins have spanned a similar diversity in both personal and financial "success."

 

However, I don't think that any of us have sucked on the gummit teat. My grandparents knew that if they failed, they might have to go back to the old country (but how would they pay...their families had no $) or they would have to work hard and get by.

 

That's what I'm asking for....personal responsibility. You are responsible for you...don't depend on Uncle Sam.

 

I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum here but, given our current financial struggles, I'm curious what others think.

 

In this sense, you and I share many beliefs.

 

While only 23, I do believe MY generation is incredibly lazy, entitled, whatever you want to say. It's interesting because while I consider myself "coming from" a middle-class/upper-class area, my family is not that, especially with recent circumstances (my father died as the sole provider and my mom has been left to bear the burden, never before holding a job in her life).

 

I ask for personal responsibility as well. I agree that people in this country and lost the concept of "a buck." I see it every friggin day with college students schlepping venti-soy-no foam-137 degree-almond-lattes. And then spending $12 on an "Epic Burger" instead of brown-baggining it like me. It really disgusts me.

 

However, this is one element of the problem in this country.

 

I think corporate America is absolutely disgusting and deserves to hold some "responsibility" of the problems this country faces. If we want to hold people on the lower end of the scale responsible, we should do the same to corporations like GE that pay ZERO dollars in taxes. How the heck is it fair that I'm paying more taxes than GE? They weren't taxed on $5 billion? Really?

Edited September 15, 2011 by Goopster24

[millerx]

Mojo, I SERIOUSLY don't mean this the wrong way...

 

I'm the son of immigrant parents who had to learn English. I'm also the son of parents who lost their house to the bank (sure, I can say partly because of mis-management of money). I'm also the son of parents who are forking over their future AND mine to put me through college so I can achieve "the American Dream."

 

I'm young, irresponsible and dumb. Please reiterate your solution to America's fiasco. I'm SERIOUSLY trying to see your side. Do I support everything Democrats are trying to do? No. Do I see better solutions by Republicans? I don't think so. But I could be wrong. Please explain sir. Again, I'm only 23.

That's refreshing to hear ... I wish this mind set was still a prevalent practice.

[Goopster24]

That's refreshing to hear ... I wish this mind set was still a prevalent practice.

 

I kind of see where you are going but would you like to elaborate?

[Perchoutofwater]

Do I think the tax system has become unbalanced in favor of the "rich"? Yes, I do.

 

How so? They are in affect paying a whole lot more for less services. How would you feel if I charged Az $100 for a 10,000 square foot building, but then turned around and charged you $1,000,000 for a $1,000 square foot building? Oh, and if you decide you don't want to buy that building I can put you in jail and seize your assets?

 

The average "rich" pay more both in dollars and as a percentage of income than the average "poor" person and yet receive fewer services. So can you please tell me how the tax system is unbalanced in favor of the rich? Sure there are some that are able to use deductions to bring down the amount they pay to where it is disgusting, but I'd be willing to be there are whole lot fewer Warren Buffets or John F'n Kerry types out there than there are the red bull drinking, two pack a day welfare mooches. If you want it to be fair we we go to a flat tax with only two deductions/credits, those being a deduction for charitable donations, and a credit to bring the very poor up to the poverty line. Even with that we need to drastically redefine charities as well as redefine the poverty level.

[Goopster24]

There will always be moochers, no matter what policy is in place.

 

The problem is when "the rich" have not one bit of interest in helping this country get back on solid footing. And simply paying taxes and writing checks isn't part of that.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Goopster24

[MojoMan]

There will always be moochers, no matter what policy is in place.

 

The problem is when "the rich" have not one bit of interest in helping this country get back on solid footing. And simply paying taxes and writing checks isn't part of that.

 

I call BS.

 

I think all Americans would like to see a strong US.

[Goopster24]

I call BS.

 

I think all Americans would like to see a strong US.

 

The definition of a strong US to "the rich" is very different to the rest of the country.

[Perchoutofwater]

There will always be moochers, no matter what policy is in place.

 

The problem is when "the rich" have not one bit of interest in helping this country get back on solid footing. And simply paying taxes and writing checks isn't part of that.

 

You are young and naive if you believe that. Everyone does better with less unemployment and less people on the government teat. Not sure how many "rich" people you know, but I know quite a few, and while there are some that couldn't give a rat's ass, most are very active in charitable organizations.

[Perchoutofwater]

The definition of a strong US to "the rich" is very different to the rest of the country.

 

I'd love to hear how you think "the rich" would define a strong US. I'd also love to hear how "the poor" would define a strong US.

[MojoMan]

The definition of a strong US to "the rich" is very different to the rest of the country.

 

What is your definition?

 

Strong US (to the rich):

 

Strong US (to the rest of the country):

Edited September 15, 2011 by MojoMan

[Goopster24]

You are young and naive if you believe that. Everyone does better with less unemployment and less people on the government teat. Not sure how many "rich" people you know, but I know quite a few, and while there are some that couldn't give a rat's ass, most are very active in charitable organizations.

 

I know lots of rich people; many of them are republicans and many are democrats.

 

Writing checks is easy; wouldn't consider that "active."

Edited September 15, 2011 by Goopster24

[Goopster24]

What is your definition?

 

Strong US (to the poor):

 

Strong US (to the rest of the country):

 

I'll ponder that in my next class and get back to you.

[MojoMan]

I'll ponder that in my next class and get back to you.

 

You need someone to tell you?

[Goopster24]

I think there is a difference.

[MojoMan]

I know lots of rich people; many of them are republicans and many are democrats.

 

Writing checks is easy; wouldn't consider that "active."

 

Not so sure about this grasshopper.

 

I think you mean that it's easy for someone making $500k/year to write a check for $100. Fair enough.

 

Do you think it's easy for someone making $22K/year to write a $100 check?

 

On the other hand, it's easy for a not-so-serious (taking 7 units/semester liberal arts) student to spend lots of time being "active" doing a charitable activity like cleaning a park when it's 82 degrees and there are halter-clad coeds doing the same activity.

 

It's a little tougher for a 50 year-old neurosurgeon with 2 teenagers to do the same thing.

 

Your point?

[tosberg34]

Not so sure about this grasshopper.

 

I think you mean that it's easy for someone making $500k/year to write a check for $100. Fair enough.

 

Do you think it's easy for someone making $22K/year to write a $100 check?

 

On the other hand, it's easy for a not-so-serious (taking 7 units/semester liberal arts) student to spend lots of time being "active" doing a charitable activity like cleaning a park when it's 82 degrees and there are halter-clad coeds doing the same activity.

 

It's a little tougher for a 50 year-old neurosurgeon with 2 teenagers to do the same thing.

 

Your point?

 

BAM! That's gotta' hurt!

 

Good post, Mojo!

[Big Country]

I think corporate America is absolutely disgusting and deserves to hold some "responsibility" of the problems this country faces. If we want to hold people on the lower end of the scale responsible, we should do the same to corporations like GE that pay ZERO dollars in taxes. How the heck is it fair that I'm paying more taxes than GE? They weren't taxed on $5 billion? Really?

 

 

So you are holding GE responsible for the tax code? Should they choose to pay taxes they aren't obligated to? Do you willingly send in extra money to the governement that you aren't required to, just because?

 

Don't like it then support politicians and legislation that would change the tax code.

[Goopster24]

So you are holding GE responsible for the tax code? Should they choose to pay taxes they aren't obligated to? Do you willingly send in extra money to the governement that you aren't required to, just because?

 

Don't like it then support politicians and legislation that would change the tax code.

 

Do they not have some clout in Washington over policy? Of course they do.

 

And yes, I do support politicians and legislation that are/is working to change the tax code.

 

You have no problem paying less taxes than GE?

[Goopster24]

Not so sure about this grasshopper.

 

I think you mean that it's easy for someone making $500k/year to write a check for $100. Fair enough.

 

Do you think it's easy for someone making $22K/year to write a $100 check?

 

On the other hand, it's easy for a not-so-serious (taking 7 units/semester liberal arts) student to spend lots of time being "active" doing a charitable activity like cleaning a park when it's 82 degrees and there are halter-clad coeds doing the same activity.

 

It's a little tougher for a 50 year-old neurosurgeon with 2 teenagers to do the same thing.

 

Your point?

 

Of course I'm gonna get this response.

 

No I do not think it's easy for someone to write a $100 check if they make $22k/year. I'm not concerned about percentages; I do commend anyone who donates anything. I'm raising money for diabetes as I run the Chicago Marathon. I had someone I haven't talked to in five years donate $5 towards a $2000 goal. I wrote a page thank you note to him.

 

My "point" concerns people who donate and have no idea what they are donating to, what the cause is, and what more can be done. Worked for a non-profit for two years and have seen this a lot. The money is great but the knowledge can mean a lot. Not looking for a neurosurgeon to donate time, only to understand the cause. I have many family friends who fit this category. I also know many people who do not.

 

That was my point, not a fair assessment?

[Big Country]

Do they not have some clout in Washington over policy? Of course they do.

 

And yes, I do support politicians and legislation that are/is working to change the tax code.

 

You have no problem paying less taxes than GE?

 

 

I'd love to pay less, but that means I would not be a net taxpayer and Perch would try take my right to vote.

 

 

Now, assuming you meant to ask if I have a problem with GE paying less than me, yes, I do have a problem with that, however I do not hold GE responsible for playing by the rules of the existing tax code. Yes, they have clout, but so does the voting public who can vote out the politicians that continue to give these breaks to corporations.

 

 

 

I think this saying applies here:

 

Don't hate the player, hate the game.