Tebow stinks.

[otis29]

He won a state championship as QB in High School.

He was an integral part of the UF 2006 BCS Natl Championship

He was the starting QB for the UF 2008 BCS Natl Championship

He won the Heisman

He has a winning record as a starter in the NFL

 

Taken together, thus far he is clearly a loser.

I've made no statement about him not being a "winner" prior to his arrival in the NFL. I've made a statement that five games is too early to make that judgment in the pros.

['canes2004]

He won a state championship as QB in High School.

He was an integral part of the UF 2006 BCS Natl Championship

He was the starting QB for the UF 2008 BCS Natl Championship

He won the Heisman

He has a winning record as a starter in the NFL

 

Taken together, thus far he is clearly a loser.

 

One for Team Egg

 

[otis29]

Here's another great "winner":

Danny Wuerffel was born in Pensacola, Florida in 1974,[1] the son of a Lutheran minister who was a chaplain in the U.S. Air Force. While he was growing up, he and his family lived in South Carolina, Spain, Nebraska and Colorado before he attended Fort Walton Beach High School in Fort Walton Beach, Florida.[2] Wuerffel was a standout high school football and basketball player for the Fort Walton Beach Vikings. In football, he led the Vikings to an undefeated season as a senior quarterback, while winning the Florida Class 4A state football championship in 1991 and earning the No. 2 national ranking in USA Today. Wuerffel was widely considered the top high school football recruit in the state of Florida, and USA Today's high school player of the year in Florida during his senior year [3]. He graduated from high school as his class valedictorian.

[edit] College career

 

Wuerffel accepted an athletic scholarship to attend the University of Florida in Gainesville, Florida, where he played quarterback for head coach Steve Spurrier's Florida Gators football team from 1993 to 1996.[4] One of the most decorated players in Florida's football history,[4] Wuerffel won the 1996 Heisman Trophy while quarterbacking the Gators to the Bowl Alliance national championship with help from teammates Fred Taylor at running back, Reidel Anthony, Ike Hilliard and Jacquez Green at wide receiver, and Jeff Mitchell on the offensive line. He led the Florida Gators to four consecutive Southeastern Conference titles between 1993 and 1996, and the 1996 national championship, won in decisive fashion (52–20) over the archrival Florida State Seminoles at the 1997 Sugar Bowl in New Orleans, Louisiana.[4] He is the only Heisman Trophy recipient to also receive the Draddy Trophy, which is presented annually by the National Football Foundation and the College Football Hall of Fame to the nation's top football scholar-athlete. Wuerffel was also a first-team Academic All-American in 1995 and 1996.[4]

I'm just saying - it doesn't always translate to the pros.

[Bronco Billy]

I've made no statement about him not being a "winner" prior to his arrival in the NFL. I've made a statement that five games is too early to make that judgment in the pros.

 

I have made the statement that his entire body of work as a QB over his football career labels him clearly as a winner, including but not exclusively stating his record this season taking over a 1-4 team and turning them - with a lot of help - into a .500 team.

 

I have also clearly stated numerous times that his odds of being a good long term pro starting QB are even at best. In other words not so tacitly, that's its way too early to tell.

 

So I'll ask you again simply: What's your point? You obviously think that you also have a "gotcha". What is it exactly?

Edited November 19, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[Bronco Billy]

I've made no statement about him not being a "winner" prior to his arrival in the NFL.

 

And I've asked quite simply that you make a statement regarding whether you consider Tebow's body of work as a football player regarding whether he can be labeled a winner in that context, which you still have not answered. Do you plan on answering, as I answered your simple question?

[Chief Dick]

Tebow was selected in the 2010 draft. Gabbert was selected in the 2011 draft.

 

I knew that.

[Bronco Billy]

I knew that.

 

 

I love you, man

[caddyman]

I have made the statement that his entire body of work as a QB over his football career labels him clearly as a winner, including but not exclusively stating his record this season taking over a 1-4 team and turning them - with a lot of help - into a .500 team.

 

I have also clearly stated numerous times that his odds of being a good long term pro starting QB are even at best. In other words not so tacitly, that's its way too early to tell.

 

So I'll ask you again simply: What's your point? You obviously think that you also have a "gotcha". What is it exactly?

Talk about changing the argument. My god you are impossible to have a discussion with. Let me break it down for you. What everyone is saying is the following.

 

1. HIS PASSING SKILLS ARE PITIFUL AT BEST.

 

2. HE HAS SHOWN NO PROGRESSION TOWARDS BEING A GOOD PASSER.

 

3. YOU MUST BE ABLE TO PASS IN THE NFL TO WIN CONSISTENTLY AND WIN BIG GAMES.

 

4. HE MAY HAVE BEEN A WINNER IN HIS PAST LIVES. IT IS TOO SOON TO TELL IF WHEN HE IS ALL SAID AND DONE IN THE NFL THAT HE WILL BE CONSIDERED A WINNER. NO NFL CAREER CAN BE PROPERLY DEFINED AFTER FIVE GAMES.

 

You are welcome.

[otis29]

And I've asked quite simply that you make a statement regarding whether you consider Tebow's body of work as a football player regarding whether he can be labeled a winner in that context, which you still have not answered. Do you plan on answering, as I answered your simple question?

You did? Really? Without parsing? Allrighty then.

 

At the risk of being accused of avoiding your question, I'll state what I feel about Tebow as simply as possible. He was a "winner" in the most technical sense in high school and college. I don't believe he will be a winner in the pros (obviously that's just my personal opinion), and I don't think his record success as a high school or college player will change that.

 

I don't believe that some ephemeral ability to "win" is what's gotten him to 4-1 as a starter this season. He has been probably the worst starting QB in the league this season, and they are more likely winning in spite of him than because of him.

[Bronco Billy]

Talk about changing the argument. My god you are impossible to have a discussion with. Let me break it down for you. What everyone is saying is the following.

 

1. HIS PASSING SKILLS ARE PITIFUL AT BEST.

 

2. HE HAS SHOWN NO PROGRESSION TOWARDS BEING A GOOD PASSER.

 

3. YOU MUST BE ABLE TO PASS IN THE NFL TO WIN CONSISTENTLY AND WIN BIG GAMES.

 

4. HE MAY HAVE BEEN A WINNER IN HIS PAST LIVES. IT IS TOO SOON TO TELL IF WHEN HE IS ALL SAID AND DONE IN THE NFL THAT HE WILL BE CONSIDERED A WINNER. NO NFL CAREER CAN BE PROPERLY DEFINED AFTER FIVE GAMES.

 

You are welcome.

 

I didn't change the subject, did I? For your understanding, I was responding to someone who thought he had me over a barrel with his inexcapable logic when he chose to take this down a different path. I even asked him to provide quotes and invited assistance for him to do so, whcih he failed to do.

 

As to your points above:

 

1. HIS PASSING SKILLS ARE PITIFUL AT BEST.

 

Agreed, based upon passing performance in the NFL to date. The argument I've made and that you carefully ignored because they are inconvenient to you, is that there is no way to determine whether he can improve or not without the benefit of either being clarvoyant or simply waiting and seeing what happens - but which you among others have assured us this cannot possibly happen.

 

2. HE HAS SHOWN NO PROGRESSION TOWARDS BEING A GOOD PASSER.

 

I'll disagree and have made my detailed case as such. Given point 1, my response, and your previous posts, I do not expect you to agree.

 

3. YOU MUST BE ABLE TO PASS IN THE NFL TO WIN CONSISTENTLY AND WIN BIG GAMES.

 

I've also agreed with this and have stated that Tebow has to improve significantly as a passer to be considered a long term solution as a starting QB.

 

4. HE MAY HAVE BEEN A WINNER IN HIS PAST LIVES. IT IS TOO SOON TO TELL IF WHEN HE IS ALL SAID AND DONE IN THE NFL THAT HE WILL BE CONSIDERED A WINNER. NO NFL CAREER CAN BE PROPERLY DEFINED AFTER FIVE GAMES.

 

I've agreed several times with this, including multiple times in the past couple of pages.

 

So in closing this post, I'll thank you for emphatically stating the overwhelmingly obvious yet again.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[Bronco Billy]

You did? Really? Without parsing? Allrighty then.

 

At the risk of being accused of avoiding your question, I'll state what I feel about Tebow as simply as possible. He was a "winner" in the most technical sense in high school and college. I don't believe he will be a winner in the pros (obviously that's just my personal opinion), and I don't think his record success as a high school or college player will change that.

 

I don't believe that some ephemeral ability to "win" is what's gotten him to 4-1 as a starter this season. He has been probably the worst starting QB in the league this season, and they are more likely winning in spite of him than because of him.

 

And this is your idea of "not parsing"?

 

[otis29]

And this is your idea of "not parsing"?

 

Of course. Here's your question:

And I've asked quite simply that you make a statement regarding whether you consider Tebow's body of work as a football player regarding whether he can be labeled a winner in that context, which you still have not answered.

If you want a simpler answer, don't ask such a convoluted (I think that's actually being kind) question?

[Bronco Billy]

Of course. Here's your question:

 

If you want a simpler answer, don't ask such a convoluted (I think that's actually being kind) question?

 

I'm sad to say I didn't expect any less.

[otis29]

I'm sad to say I didn't expect any less.

I see you do this kind of thing a lot. Is this your go-to last resort argument?

 

And what's so complicated? I don't think Tebow's "winningness" has anything to do with the team's recent record. I believe Denver could have won those games more comfortably with any number of mediocre quarterbacks or "game managers". I think his liabilities on the skill side at this point in his career far override any positives he receives from his intangibles.

 

He's probably had a greater impact on Colquitt's ability to get a contract extension than on the recent Denver victories.

[Bronco Billy]

I see you do this kind of thing a lot. Is this your go-to last resort argument?

 

Well, you just can't resist, can you? Another "gotcha"

 

Okay, find another case where I've done this. Provide the quote and show me where this has happened previously.

 

As before, I can help you use the search function to assist you.

 

:cuejeopardymusic:

Edited November 19, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[CowboyGal2011]

I don't know what JAX execs claimed either way but there's no doubt in my mind that he was gone by their 2d rounder.

 

Based on what? You're pulling that out of your taznib.

[otis29]

Well, you just can't resist, can you? Another "gotcha"

 

Okay, find another case where I've done this. Provide the quote and show me where this has happened previously.

 

As before, I can help you use the search function to assist you.

 

:cuejeopardymusic:

From this thread alone and hell, I only made it to page 12:

You can always tell how badly someone knows they are wrong by how far they are willing to reach in a feeble attempt to score some kind of point.

It's okay though. I fully expect those who have been so wrong in stating with absolute certainty that Tebow can not play QB at the NFL level to come forth and admit the error of their rash judgments. The vast majority of us are men here. We can admit mistakes when we make them - especially when they are so egregious.

It's pretty pathetic, actually, to see people who are so wholeheartedly engaged in desiring the complete and utter failure of a person who by all accounts is a very good person off the field. There isn't another player in the league who draws so much ill will as Tebow - find any thread about any other player that displays such a tunnel-visioned hope for them to fail so totally. You won't - not even close. And why? Because he's a good guy and openly Christian? Does that really threaten people so badly that they root relentlessly for Tebow's failure as a NFL QB? How sad and pathetic.

Apparently, most everyone who disagrees with you is dumb and/or biased and/or anti-Christian, while you are an impartial sage of wisdom.

 

This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

[tazinib1]

Based on what? You're pulling that out of your taznib.

 

 

 

Where did that come from? Love me some H8

[caddyman]

From this thread alone and hell, I only made it to page 12:

 

 

 

Apparently, most everyone who disagrees with you is dumb and/or biased and/or anti-Christian, while you are an impartial sage of wisdom.

 

This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

Exactly...

 

It's okay though. I fully expect those who have been so wrong in stating with absolute certainty that Tebow can not play QB at the NFL level to come forth and admit the error of their rash judgments. The vast majority of us are men here. We can admit mistakes when we make them - especially when they are so egregious.

QUOTE

It's pretty pathetic, actually, to see people who are so wholeheartedly engaged in desiring the complete and utter failure of a person who by all accounts is a very good person off the field. There isn't another player in the league who draws so much ill will as Tebow - find any thread about any other player that displays such a tunnel-visioned hope for them to fail so totally. You won't - not even close. And why? Because he's a good guy and openly Christian? Does that really threaten people so badly that they root relentlessly for Tebow's failure as a NFL QB? How sad and pathetic.

 

As to both of the bolded statements....First, how are we wrong. He has proven niothing at this point. Not one thing. If anything, can even be close to being proven, it is the fact that he can NOT play QB at this level. What he is doing can't possibly be considered competent.

 

Second, BB continues to act like we are rooting for Tebow to fail. I have said a million times I am rooting for the guy. It's the same way I root for my son. I hope like hell he is a great baseball player, except that just because he plays on a winning team that does not mean he is responsible for the teams success. By the way, I can admit my son is not the best player on his team(actually he bats 9th and plays right field), but I still love him and root for him. BB seems to think thats not possible. Looks like he is wrong. I am anxiously awaiting the post where he admits it.

[Bronco Billy]

From this thread alone and hell, I only made it to page 12:

 

 

 

Apparently, most everyone who disagrees with you is dumb and/or biased and/or anti-Christian, while you are an impartial sage of wisdom.

 

This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

Next time load the gun. Calling people on their alleged ability to peer into the future and state as fact that Tebow has already reached his apex for QB play in the NFL? That's your "proof"?

 

Well, no point in proceeding further with you on this.

[otis29]

Well, no point in proceeding further with you on this.

Hey, we agree on something!

Edited November 19, 2011 by otis29

[BeeR]

Wow. There are a lot of people telling me what I think - in spite of what I have written or have not written.

Welcome to thehuddle.

 

So the BB vs otismyman fight is over then? :hopeful:

Edited November 19, 2011 by BeeR

[bpwallace49]

Its OK Bronco BIlly.

 

When everything is fully adapted to the spread option for the Broncos, becasue that is the only offense that Tebow is capable of running, and when the Broncos start losing a few games you can go back to blaming everyone BUT tebow for the losses. You have clearly established that

 

Wins= All Tebow (what a winner and gritty competitor!)

Losses= Everyone BUT Tebow (gawddamn offensive coordinator, Elway, WRs and Bigfoot are part of a conspiracy to keep the MAN down!)

 

You have set up a convenient box where Tebow cannot lose. I especially like how you have morphed failing to assign any culpability to Tebow into "All I am sayin' is that there is a CHANCE he might succeed someday, somewhere, on some team, and everyone is saying otherwise."

 

Bravo sir, bravo

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Wins= All Tebow (what a winner and gritty competitor!)

Losses= Everyone BUT Tebow (gawddamn offensive coordinator, Elway, WRs and Bigfoot are part of a conspiracy to keep the MAN down!)

[Bronco Billy]

Tell you what, I'll throw down the glove and give those who are convinced that Tebow can't get better than he is playing right now a chance to make some money on their predictions.

 

Tebow in games he has started so far this year:

 

45.22% completions

126.0 passing yds per game

5.48 yds/attempt

 

Here's what I'll offer action on. I propose that not only will Tebow improve, but he'll improve on at least 2 of the 3 of these numbers for the duration of games he starts games this season, minumum of 3 games, by 10% at least and that none of the three will go lower for the cumulative remaining statistics of his regular season starts this season, minimum 3.

 

That means as long as he starts another 3 or more games of the remaining 2011 regular season - up to possibly 6 games, that he will finish with a minimum increase of 10% in the 2 of the 3 following categories in those remaining games, and that none of the numbers will drop below his current 2011n starting numbers listed above right now:

 

49.74% completions

138.6 passing yards per game

6.03 yds/attempt

 

If he improves in at least 2 of 3 categories to a minimum of the numbers listed immediately above by at least 10% and none drop below the levels listed in the first list of current numbers, I win. If he fails to improve to the minimum of the 10% improvement numbers listed immediately above in any 2 of the 3 categories, or if his numbers go down in any 1 of the 3 numbers initially listed in those categories, I lose.

 

Now, that's a much more realistic proposition than the absurd "Tebow Super Bowl win" offer presented earlier - and if what those with certainty that there is zero chance he can improve are correct, this ought to be easy money for them.

 

I'll take action from any one Huddler for up to $20, as many Huddlers are interested in getting in on it. If less than 5 Huddlers take the action, I'll go up to $50 per Huddler if they'd like. Acceptance of the bet to be listed below, and bets to be paid off no later than 1 week after the end of the 2011 NFL regular season.

 

Takers?

Edited November 19, 2011 by Bronco Billy