'canes2004 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino because Dilfer won a Superbowl. Shut that hole in your face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 It proves how confident in Tebow YOU really are? Easy to just continue to blow smoke. Do you not read? Where in the Seven Hells would you think that I have confidence in Tebow? I think, and have stated it repeatedly, since you have obviously missed it each and every time - that there is at least as good a chance of Tebow failing as of his succeeding, and probably higher. And your little "confidence" game proves zilch. There are tons of very good and some great QBs who have never won a SB. Find another "gotcha". This one is a major FAIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Do you not read? Where in the Seven Hells would you think that I have confidence in Tebow? I think, and have stated it repeatedly, since you have obviously missed it each and every time - that there is at least as good a chance of Tebow failing as of his succeeding, and probably higher. And your little "confidence" game proves zilch. There are tons of very good and some great QBs who have never won a SB. Find another "gotcha". This one is a major FAIL. You obviously have confidence in Tebow because you won't shut the f#ck up about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Do you not read? Where in the Seven Hells would you think that I have confidence in Tebow? I think, and have stated it repeatedly, since you have obviously missed it each and every time - that there is at least as good a chance of Tebow failing as of his succeeding, and probably higher. And your little "confidence" game proves zilch. There are tons of very good and some great QBs who have never won a SB. Find another "gotcha". This one is a major FAIL. So then I guess I put up $20 and you say maybe $40 then? What the hell does succeed mean? If by succeed you mean win 4-5 game a year then yes you are right. If by succeed you mean that the Broncos are a team that will be picked to win the division and have a chance to win Super Bowls then you are blind billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 he's made 8 out of 10 starts this year In name only. He is just in the last three weeks getting substantial time and rounding back into form after being out last year and being hampered in preseason and the start of this one. I guess I could have been more precise, but a healthy Dummervile makes that D. go while an unhealthy one allows teams to concentrate on closing down Miller which sort of takes care of closing down the D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) It proves how confident in Tebow YOU really are? Easy to just continue to blow smoke. I'm not real bright, nor as manfully assertive as some around here seem to be so excuse me if I get this wrong, but isn't BB arguing that he has some minor, even statistically insignificant chance, but a chance definately above zero, that Tebow may become adequate, and that rational folks would acknowledge that obvious point absent insanity, hate, bias, or irrationality. That is a far cry from confidence in the guy. I probably got this wrong so don't pee on my head, unless,you happen to be a Victoria's Secret Supermodel in which case you have carte blanche. Edited November 19, 2011 by Ditkaless Wonders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Denver's QB of the future is not on their roster yet...Nobody knows that better than the Bronco's management. So, with that simple statement you just dismiss the glory, power, and force of Brady Quinn? You better step outside Pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I can't believe you guys are still talking about this. No kidding. Agree 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino because Dilfer won a Superbowl. agreed and Vinateri is a better kicker than Vanderjagt for the same reason ...plus he is cuter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I'm loving the story, but, I don't know how it will end, and either does anyone else (despite all of the "guarantees" being thrown around). What can you say, the kid just wins. He won in high school, he won in college and he's winning now. He's also a class act, and I'm definitely rooting for him. Anyone who is still arguing that he wasn't a better choice for this team than Orton needs to re-examine things. The object is to win the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Never say never. Strange, unpredictable things happen in the NFL from time to time... Who saw Brandon Lloyd finally emerging last year? Or Mark Clayton for a few games turning into a stud before he got hurt? Kurt Warner going from grocery boy to Super Bowl MVP. Nobody knows what will happen to Tebow. But to say has no chance at all to win a SB is close minded. Highly unlikely? Perhaps. But who really knows. I agree with BB that the team is at least fun to watch now. Von Miller has something to do with that too though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I'm not real bright, nor as manfully assertive as some around here seem to be so excuse me if I get this wrong, but isn't BB arguing that he has some minor, even statistically insignificant chance, but a chance definately above zero, that Tebow may become adequate, and that rational folks would acknowledge that obvious point absent insanity, hate, bias, or irrationality. That is a far cry from confidence in the guy. I probably got this wrong so don't pee on my head, unless,you happen to be a Victoria's Secret Supermodel in which case you have carte blanche. BB isn't inducting Tebow into the HOF. He's simply making a statement that he can/can't become a quality NFL starting QB. Those of us that have watched film on the kid would argue against his success.. HOWEVER, make no mistake about it, the kid wins. Period....its not debatable at all. Now wether or not he can progress as a NFL QB remains to be seen. As I type this I"m reminded that he is 4-1 this year and 7-2 overall as a starter....I'm rooting for him...I'm on the T-Bone wagon and have been since the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) No kidding. Agree 100%. Oh, there's all sorts of #### going on here, which makes the subject of Tebow great fun and really quite fascinating. There's his performance on the field. The kid is winning games and has made DEN watchable again for its fans. He's brought the team back to some measure of relevance. He's also winning in very unconventional ways, which is controversial in trying to figure out whether it can continue. Then you have the history angle if you are a DEN fan. When Elway entered the league he had a HC who didn't trust him at all and the press was all over him because his play was considered substandard - but the HC played games extremely conservatively, kept the team close, and held Elway in check - right up to the end of the game when Reeves would turn Elway loose to do things his way and win games. Now we are seeing an eerie kind of deja vu right now in DEN. Then you've got the FF angle. Right now in conventional performance leagues, this kid sits about 8th for FF QBs in ppg over the time he has been named the starter. Of those 8, he and Newton are easily the most inexperienced - which could very well mean upside if they can improve and grow their games. That's beneficial to all FF players, but most especially intriguing to dynasty and deeper keeper leaguers. Of Newton and Tebow, Tebow would seem to have a higher ceilng because he has so much room to grow in the passing games - unless you happen to believe that his passing can never possibly get any better, in which case his tenure as a starter is most probably very limited. Which leads us into the another facet of the discussion - can Tebow improve of his passing? If he can, and he can win with limited passing right now, how high is his upside? But then we have those who are stating as absolute and indisputable fact that there is no possibility he will ever be a better passer than he is right now, which makes him no more than a flavor-of-the-month or year sideshow act who will be replaced in short order once other teams figure out how to stop him and beat DEN badly. That also leads to discussion whether there is a possibility that Tebow can grow into being a pro QB and a solid starter who can have success against the better teams in the NFL. And despite his youth and how few starts he has had, again we have those who have taken an uncompromising position that there is no possible way that Tebow can grow as a QB and therefore DEN is stalled right now with him. That in itself leads to another point of discussion - given how young he is and what he has accomplished throughout his football life, there are those who are absolutely certain without reservation that Tebow has already reached his pro ceiling and cannot possibily improve his play beyond where he is right now. There are quite a few of these people, and they are extremely vocal in their opinion. That makes one wonder why they are so absolutely certain of their position and that there is zero chance that Tebow can play in the NFL, even one slight bit better than he is playing right now. Because that position seems so irrational - that Tebow has a literally zero percent chance of improving his play beyond where he is right now despite his inexperience and his history, some people like myself can only justify that absolutist position by thinking that these people have a deeper agenda in play beyond football. Which takes us into the social aspect of the argument. Tebow is a devout Christian who wears his beliefs on his sleeve. He is a genuinely good person, which is refreshing for a lot of people to see in the NFL, and so some people root for him for this reason - and they'll usually tell you outright that is part of the reason they are pulling for Tebow to become a better QB and make it as a starter long term in the NFL. Conversely, it would seem reasonable that there are people on the other side of the argument and want to see Tebow utterly fail for what he believes in. Now, before this is dismissed out of hand as silly, we can see in other venues where secularists in this country have become increasingly vocal and aggressive in wanting to see religion, and particularly Christianity put down in all areas of public life, so that they never have to see anything religious when they venture outside their homes. I think some of those people visit this thread with anti-Tebow rhetoric, hoping to see him fall flat on his face due to his faith. But then you can't prove that because they won't freely admit it, unlike those who are pulling for Tebow because of his faith. Then there are other minor angles - people holding grudges or love from his college career, that DEN has had to make some offensive adjustments in order to maximize Tebow's ability, etc But all in all, there's all sorts of angles in the Tebow story. It's always fun to have discussion when there is so much to debate. Edited November 19, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 As I type this I"m reminded that he is 4-1 this year and 7-2 5-3 overall as a starter....I'm rooting for him...I'm on the T-Bone wagon and have been since the beginning. Fixed for accuracy, GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I did some checking just for fun: Steve Young through 19 games: 53% completion percentage 11 TD 21 INT 658 Rushing Yards 6 rushing TD Tim Tebow through 17 games: 47% completion percentage 12 TD 4 INT 615 rushing yards 9 rushing TD I know the numbers will be off some because Young threw the ball more, but I just thought it was interesting. he also played in a tougher era....football isn't what it was back then due to parity....and the Niners were still a very good team when he came in, he just grew into the role.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 he also played in a tougher era....football isn't what it was back then due to parity....and the Niners were still a very good team when he came in, he just grew into the role.... I am not getting your meaning here. I think an argument could me easily made that a player coming into a successful organization, burgeobing with talent and sitting atop the NFL food chain would have a much easier time succeeding than a player coming into an organization rebuilding and where every game on the schedule is considered a tough challenge The 9ers were the cream of the crop back (along with a few other franchises). Most of the games on their schedule were against significantly inferior opponents. Parity means just the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 he also played in a tougher era....football isn't what it was back then due to parity....and the Niners were still a very good team when he came in, he just grew into the role.... Pssst..... Young started out in tampa.... after the usfl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 With the Coach appologizing and beginning to get on board, seems the only one in Denver who isn't happy that Tebow has gone 4-1 is Elway. Love the statistical analysis that shows Tebow ahead of Elway at this point in his career and essentially even/ahead of Steve Young. Yep, he's not the prettiest of passers -- but everyone else in Denver has got to be happier with 4-1 than they were with 1-4, as they are't worried about where in fans' hearts they rank as Denver's favorite QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis29 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Anyone who is still arguing that he wasn't a better choice for this team than Orton needs to re-examine things. The object is to win the game. Perhaps you can be the first of the Tebow backers to answer my previous question: I was just checking through the Football Reference site and see that Kyle Orton won his first six games as Denver's QB. I also see he had an eight game winning streak as QB for the Bears (with genuinely poor numbers for the most part during that stretch). Just curious if Bronco fans think he was a "winner" then and it somehow went away? Were these streaks an aberration, a statistical fluke, he was carried by the defense, or he just found a run of lucky play? Now, I'm not saying that Tebow shouldn't be playing in place of Orton, since this Broncos team really had nothing to lose by seeing what the kid has. But if the only real pro-Tebow argument out there is how he's a "winner", don't you also have to acknowledge that you can't apply that label after just five professional games? Considering Orton started his Bronco career with a six game winning streak yet he's certainly not considered a "winner". If you do, well...that would appear to be a logical inconsistency to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Oh cmon BB admit it you have serious "man love" for Tebow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Pssst..... Young started out in tampa.... after the usfl .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Now, I'm not saying that Tebow shouldn't be playing in place of Orton, since this Broncos team really had nothing to lose by seeing what the kid has. But if the only real pro-Tebow argument out there is how he's a "winner", don't you also have to acknowledge that you can't apply that label after just five professional games? Considering Orton started his Bronco career with a six game winning streak yet he's certainly not considered a "winner". If you do, well...that would appear to be a logical inconsistency to me. Wouldn't we have to see DEN fall into becoming literally the worst team record-wise in the NFL under Tebow, as DEN did with Orton after that first 6 games? When that happens, I'm absolutely certain we will be visiting the subject here. As fo right now, you seem to be putting the cart before the horse. You may as well ask what will happen to the Packers if Rodgers decided to throw left handed for the next season and a half (insert Tebow passing joke at your leisure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I am not getting your meaning here. I think an argument could me easily made that a player coming into a successful organization, burgeobing with talent and sitting atop the NFL food chain would have a much easier time succeeding than a player coming into an organization rebuilding and where every game on the schedule is considered a tough challenge The 9ers were the cream of the crop back (along with a few other franchises). Most of the games on their schedule were against significantly inferior opponents. Parity means just the opposite. I am saying that Young was a better QB because I recall back when there was about less than a 5% chance of a highly touted QB to come out and succeed....but since the league has expanded so much, the talent pool has thinned and the rules have changed to protect QB's and etc.....plus parity allowing a mediocre QB to deliver where-as I don't think Tebow would make it in the same era that Young did.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Oh cmon BB admit it you have serious "man love" for Tebow I love that the kid seems gracious, grateful, enthusiastic, and not the least self centered or self concious. There is no way he pulls a cell phone out of a goal post pad. There is some chance, however, that we find out his hip pads are made out of recycled new testiments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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