HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 This whole thing is such a crock. Teams have been skirting the rules on footballs for ever. Every quarterback in the league likes the ball a certain way when they throw it. And teams "adjust" the footballs to their quarterbacks preference. This should be a freaking non-story. The only reason it gets play right now is because there is nothing else to talk about. I'm with CD. Blown waaay out of proportion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 It's blown up because this is the second time NE has gotten caught cheating. It's become a pattern now and implies that breaking the rules is an institutionalized practice for their organization. Nobody gets caught the one and only time they violate a rule or law. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 This should be a freaking non-story. The only reason it gets play right now is because there is nothing else to talk about. There's a Superbowl coming up & there's nothing else to talk about? Are you kidding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin_Akie Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 This whole thing is such a crock. Teams have been skirting the rules on footballs for ever. Every quarterback in the league likes the ball a certain way when they throw it. And teams "adjust" the footballs to their quarterbacks preference. This should be a freaking non-story. The only reason it gets play right now is because there is nothing else to talk about. Same thing happened with bullygate in Miami against Jonathan Martin. That sort of thing happened in lots of locker rooms but it was the Dolphins who were just unfortunate enough to have a player who struggled to deal with it mentally and were made an example of. Doesn't make it right, especially when its your second offence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 And it's the Patriots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I've heard and read just about everything there is out there on the subject except for the truth because that hasn't come out yet. If they broke the rules they should be punished accordingly. Other than that I think this is being blown way out of proportion. If the Ravens did it or the Colts or virtually any other team nobody would have any interest in it. The reason it's such a big deal is because it's the Patriots and everybody loves to hate on them because they have been so successful for the last 13+ years. I am no Patriots apologist, but their franchise hasn't had sustained success for over a decade because they are cheaters. If it taints their success for some I understand, and if it's proven they have been intentionally doing this I think the league needs to come down on them in a way that deters them from pulling anything like this in the future. Edited January 23, 2015 by Finn5033 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I've heard and read just about everything there is out there on the subject except for the truth because that hasn't come out yet. If they broke the rules they should be punished accordingly. Other than that I think this is being blown way out of proportion. If the Ravens did it or the Colts or virtually any other team nobody would have any interest in it. The reason it's such a big deal is because it's the Patriots and everybody loves to hate on them because they have been so successful for the last 13+ years. I am no Patriots apologist, but their franchise hasn't had sustained success for over a decade because they are cheaters. If it taints their success for some I understand, and if it's proven they have been intentionally doing this I think the league needs to come down on them in a way that deters them from pulling anything like this in the future. Sorry, I'm not buying the "because it's the Patriots" argument. I think it's more a matter of the AFC Champion being caught cheating. This would have been a big deal of it would have been any other team in that position as well. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Much ado about nothing? If you intentionally alter a piece of equipment for you or your teams benefit , while skirting the league rules, its cheating. Plain and simple. And they should be punished for it accordingly. And in all of those cases you listed, the person(s)/team involved would be fined and/or suspended. The NFL is no different. If I'm caught stealing a pack of gum, its still theft and I would face charges. Nothing different here. Basically agree, but you only face legal charges if the person you steal from presses charges. Few would charge theft on a pack of gum. This is a serious offense, and if they were doing it more than just this one game (as there have been reports they did it in the divisional playoff against BAL and earlier this season against the Colts). A Pats fan on another board tried to argue "well isn't holding cheating and that happens multiple times every play." Not surprisingly, nobody agreed with him. We all said that things like that are in game actions, monitored by the officials and mostly caught. Nothing like this which is blatant altering of the equipment outside the rules. No surprise that it is mostly Pats fans that are coming up with all these ideas to basically say "we didn't do anything wrong, lighten up". Are there more Pats press conferences today, maybe we hear from the equipment manager and ball boy, they can each take turns throwing each other under the bus until they find a fall guy that won't spill the beans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) The pack of gum was a very broad example Good grief. I guess I should just stop hoping people assume that Edited January 23, 2015 by tazinib1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Again, not sure that is apples to apples. Is a ball being deflated akin to corking the bats of an entire team? Or akin to bit too much pine tar on all the bats? One offers a huge advantage, the other a very modest one. Is a ball being deflated akin to putting an extra couple millimeters of bend in a shooters stick, or more akin to a goaltender's pads being too wide. Again, I have no idea. I have no idea how much an advantage a few pounds of psi really is. And I don't want to use the scores of each half as an example, because I really don't think its representative (even though it would work to my point). The flow of the game changed after they Colts were down two TDs, the 2nd half score had less to do with psi than it did about the score of the game at that point. So you have no idea, yet you're trying to make the argument that having 11 of 12 balls under inflated is no big deal. Akin to one player with a corked bat or hockey stick that isn't legal. A slap on the wrist is all that is needed. Because we all know the Pats stop breaking the rules once they are punished, oh wait, no they didn't. This whole thing is such a crock. Teams have been skirting the rules on footballs for ever. Every quarterback in the league likes the ball a certain way when they throw it. And teams "adjust" the footballs to their quarterbacks preference. This should be a freaking non-story. The only reason it gets play right now is because there is nothing else to talk about. Adjusting inflation within the allowed range (12.5 to 13.5 PSI) is completely legal. As is working the balls in to remove the slickness etc. (Brady said in his press conference he is given a big pile of balls and selects the ones he wants to play with that day.) Show us where other teams have been caught using balls inflated outside the 12.5-13.5 PSI range and you might have a point. I agree that teams probably try to get away with things, and may even be doing what you're saying. Difference is they haven't been caught. And they were not aleady caught cheating in another way and punished. (And many people hate the Pats, BB, Brady and see this as another good reason to hate them.) I wish this whole stupid thing would have never happened, but the story is not going away. Especially because the NFL isn't going to act quickly, especially not with any serious penalty. So it will drag into and probably be a big topic before the SB. Shame really, but hard to blame those who want to talk about it, blame the idiots who were cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The pack of gum was a very broad example Good grief. I guess I should just stop hoping people assume that I understood, I'm just an anal retentive OCD geek I've heard and read just about everything there is out there on the subject except for the truth because that hasn't come out yet. If they broke the rules they should be punished accordingly. Other than that I think this is being blown way out of proportion. If the Ravens did it or the Colts or virtually any other team nobody would have any interest in it. The reason it's such a big deal is because it's the Patriots and everybody loves to hate on them because they have been so successful for the last 13+ years. I am no Patriots apologist, but their franchise hasn't had sustained success for over a decade because they are cheaters. If it taints their success for some I understand, and if it's proven they have been intentionally doing this I think the league needs to come down on them in a way that deters them from pulling anything like this in the future. No doubt people are piling on and enjoying it because it is the Patriots. But that is not the only reason it is a story. If another team had cheated in the recent past and did something again they'd be a focus as well. As for not hearing the truth, are you disputing the fact that the balls were undere inflated as reported, and that the only people with access to those balls were the Pats staff? Did somebody sneak into the bag of balls and deflate all but one of them to stick it to the Pats? You say "if it was intentional", how do you uintentionally let 2 pouds of air of out 11 balls? The only questions that remain unanswered, where we need some truth and may not get it are - who did this - who ordered it - who knew about it - how many times had they done it before Agree they are not successful just because they are cheating. But when you get caught cheating multiple times during a sustained period of success, people will start to question how much of the success is real. And if most of it is, why are you cheating. If you're racing your 5 year old kid, do you take off early because you've got to win, and don't think you'll get caught? Many feel the Pats (BB especially) just like to push the envelope and try to skirt the rules. Sometimes he goes to far, probably on purpose because his gigantic ego wants to see what he can get away with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBandit Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Show us where other teams have been caught using balls inflated outside the 12.5-13.5 PSI range and you might have a point. I agree that teams probably try to get away with things, and may even be doing what you're saying. Difference is they haven't been caught. And they were not aleady caught cheating in another way and punished. (And many people hate the Pats, BB, Brady and see this as another good reason to hate them.) I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished. And I am also not saying it isn't cheating. I am just trying to understand how much of an advantage it is, and what it parallels. And what an appropriate punishment might be. What I do find ironic in all of this is that other QBs are willing to say they adjust the ball pressure to their comfort level. Hell, this years MVP just stated he likes to over-inflate the ball. He doesn't have to get caught, the guy just admitted he is a cheater. And it doesn't get a sniff of ridicule or displeasure. Why? Because it probably happens so frequently, it is overlooked. Probably just like the other sports equipment manipulations I mentioned earlier. No one really gives a crap, cause it aint a big deal until someone makes it a big deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Because it probably happens so frequently, it is overlooked. Probably just like the other sports equipment manipulations I mentioned earlier. No one really gives a crap, cause it aint a big deal until someone makes it a big deal. yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I understood, I'm just an anal retentive OCD geek No doubt people are piling on and enjoying it because it is the Patriots. But that is not the only reason it is a story. If another team had cheated in the recent past and did something again they'd be a focus as well. As for not hearing the truth, are you disputing the fact that the balls were undere inflated as reported, and that the only people with access to those balls were the Pats staff? Did somebody sneak into the bag of balls and deflate all but one of them to stick it to the Pats? You say "if it was intentional", how do you uintentionally let 2 pouds of air of out 11 balls? The only questions that remain unanswered, where we need some truth and may not get it are - who did this - who ordered it - who knew about it - how many times had they done it before Agree they are not successful just because they are cheating. But when you get caught cheating multiple times during a sustained period of success, people will start to question how much of the success is real. And if most of it is, why are you cheating. If you're racing your 5 year old kid, do you take off early because you've got to win, and don't think you'll get caught? Many feel the Pats (BB especially) just like to push the envelope and try to skirt the rules. Sometimes he goes to far, probably on purpose because his gigantic ego wants to see what he can get away with. The unanswered questions you listed are exactly what I am talking about. I am not disputing anything, just saying we don't have all the facts yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Sorry, I'm not buying the "because it's the Patriots" argument. I think it's more a matter of the AFC Champion being caught cheating. This would have been a big deal of it would have been any other team in that position as well. I respectfully disagree, I think the fact that it is the Patriots has everything to do with how big of a story it has become Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished. And I am also not saying it isn't cheating. I am just trying to understand how much of an advantage it is, and what it parallels. And what an appropriate punishment might be. What I do find ironic in all of this is that other QBs are willing to say they adjust the ball pressure to their comfort level. Hell, this years MVP just stated he likes to over-inflate the ball. He doesn't have to get caught, the guy just admitted he is a cheater. And it doesn't get a sniff of ridicule or displeasure. Why? Because it probably happens so frequently, it is overlooked. Probably just like the other sports equipment manipulations I mentioned earlier. No one really gives a crap, cause it aint a big deal until someone makes it a big deal. I've heard several QBs say they like the ball more or less inflated. I haven't heard a single one admit "we use an air pressure in the ball that is not legal". I think you're confusing things or the QBs are not being clear. Adjusting inflation within the allowed limits (12.5-13.5 PSI) is completely legal. That doesn't mean its ok for another QB (team whatever) to take 2 PSI out below the limit. I tried doing a quick search for this (Peyton admits ball pressure or cheating) and found nothing. I'd be very interested to see it if you can point me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Rookie Me........ Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The Patriots lead the league in not fumbling, not one fumble by the backs. BJGE in 4 years never fumbled the ball in NE, but at Cinny he came back down to earth with 5 in about the same amount of carries. Just food for thought. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I respectfully disagree, I think the fact that it is the Patriots has everything to do with how big of a story it has become And it should be a bigger story because its the Patriots. They have a recent rules violation. Repeat offenders SHOULD get more attention (and punishment). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfv87 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) OK I get it that it is a small infraction that really should have limited effect on the game but where do we draw the line on cheating? is using HGH OK? is lying about contracts ok? Just so we all know... what rules are we required to follow and which are merely you hoping we follow? Cheating Is cheating. Throw the book at them, 2nd offense. Edited January 23, 2015 by dfv87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 It should never have happened . Its not right to let it go and down play it especially for a team that is a repeat offender .And if they prove who did it and that it was done on purpose , there should be hell to pay . we as a society should never condone cheating or sweep it under the rug ...the fact others do it is the lamest excuse on earth . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gourdeau Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) The Patriots lead the league in not fumbling, not one fumble by the backs. BJGE in 4 years never fumbled the ball in NE, but at Cinny he came back down to earth with 5 in about the same amount of carries. Just food for thought. That's a very interesting statistic IMO Edited January 24, 2015 by Gourdeau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coordi88 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Tom Brady also threw about 50 interceptions and countless other members of their team fumbled the ball and not once was this issue brought up before, but apparently was caught after a single interception in this game. That stat doesn't mean anything to this issue. This is standard psychological deflection. This is being blown out of proportion because its the Patriots who just had spygate. Lets ignore Peterson, Rice, Concussions, and all the joke decisions Goodell has made this year. Lets ignore the second half a football game that turned into a blowout after the alleged cheating had been caught and ended. Its something that could have been little more than a footnote. "Patriots fined for a minor violation". But here we are.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeductiveNun Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The Patriots lead the league in not fumbling, not one fumble by the backs. BJGE in 4 years never fumbled the ball in NE, but at Cinny he came back down to earth with 5 in about the same amount of carries. Just food for thought. Ask Stevan Ridley how much it prevents fumbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Ask Stevan Ridley how much it prevents fumbles. yeah good point. I find it funny how the success the Pats have had brings out such nonsense in people. Crazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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