redknightsgoingdown Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 When you say something like that I can't even think of anything to say in response.............. 379318[/snapback] We shall see wise guy. McNabb had Pinkston and Thrash. They are garbage. Now McNabb has Owens and Vick has Crumpler, Dunn, Duckett and Price. All I am saying is Vick is overated and we shall see where he is by week 8. Let's table this until then. Week 8 rolls around I am calling you out. Lastly, no one said a great D does not help a QB. You and Swerski are freakin geniuses. But it impacts the team and helps win ballgames and helps to prevent someone from being less predictable (i.e. not having to sling it a million times because you are always losing) more than it helps to show how good a QB is. Dilfer and Boller have/had great D's but no one is going to mistake them for very good QB's or for Vick for that matter--- right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 This is the dumbest thread ever. I'm sure the Falcons and Mora are quite prepared to bench their franchise QB, the guy who led them to a playoff victory at Lambeau, the guy they are paying millions to, for a rookie who has had a few good preseason games. Get a grip fellas. Undoubtedly, they are thrilled about having a backup for Mr. Vick. But that is it. 379060[/snapback] This pretty much sums it up. Why are there so many Vick-haters out there? In his first season as a starter, he had a 2-1 TD-INT ratio (very rare) and a QB rating above 80 (better than McNabb's 1st starting year). Those two stats compare favorably to just about every other QB in the league. So, in Vick, we basically know he can do very impressive things when he's healthy and, when I say "impressive" I mean in both NFL and entertainment terms. Then, he suffers a broken ankle before last season, decides to wait until he's fully healthy before he plays for a coach trying to save his job on a team WAY out of contention. And, of course, if he's not perfect in his new offense for the first few weeks of this season, then he's definitely a bust. It's too bad we don't have the "rolleyes" graemlin anymore... You guys are INSANE. I'll put any amount of money on the Falcons NOT trading or releasing () Vick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Whatever your opinions on Vick, no WAY does Schaub take his job. NO F'N WAY. Not for a few years, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneWall Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 I was looking at McNabb's numbers last year. I forgot that he didn't throw a TD until Week 5 and he didn't rush for a TD until Week 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sores Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Whatever your opinions on Vick, no WAY does Schaub take his job. NO F'N WAY. Not for a few years, at least. 379356[/snapback] Hehehe....leave that door open.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 I was looking at McNabb's numbers last year. I forgot that he didn't throw a TD until Week 5 and he didn't rush for a TD until Week 10. 379368[/snapback] he was over-bulked from the offseason and slimmed down....then regained his form...not to mention his ankle was supposedly still lingering...or rusty...I don't know why though... I don't expect that slow start like last year....expect at least 20 TD's...at least...and that's just through the air....not to mention the D will be allowing alot more points....so he'll be chucking it up more...to Pinkston and TO....FredEX will be the key player on 3rd downs and such... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffjunkey Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 1. I compared durability, not performance. 1 playoff game is not everything. Jeff George won a few playoff games, no one ever mistook him for Vick. 2. His talent on the Falcons is not any worse than McNabb's. You made reference to George supporting McNair, I made reference that McNair was good when George was NOT. 3. Defense does help, I am aware of that. However, you still need something to go along with that on the offensive side of the ball. 4. I mentioned two QB's who ran a lot and got hurt and they are freakin tanks. My point is that Vick does not seem durable and his style is not conducive to staying on the field, let alone when you don't weigh 255 like Mcnair or Culpepper. 5. What is your athlete point??? I am not sure if you are being szarcastic or not...Vick is a great athlete. No, Brady, Hasselbeck, Manning, etc are not the best NFL athletes but they are good QB's. I fail to see your point. 6. Vick needs to stay on the field to be good. And when he is on the field he needs to perform and I don't think he will to any degree that he is being hyped. 379274[/snapback] I feel compelled to add my two cents to this conversation... 1. Are we saying that Vick is a better "athlete" because he is more mobile than Brady, Hasselbeck, and Manning? I don't think mobility and speed are the sole defining characteristics of a good athlete. However I would still give Vick the overall edge because he's got a cannon of an arm to complement his arsenal. 2. Injuries aside, I seem to remember another mobile, left-handed throwing QB who struggled early in his career with a team that wasn't that good. Steve Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 I feel compelled to add my two cents to this conversation... 1. Are we saying that Vick is a better "athlete" because he is more mobile than Brady, Hasselbeck, and Manning? I don't think mobility and speed are the sole defining characteristics of a good athlete. However I would still give Vick the overall edge because he's got a cannon of an arm to complement his arsenal. 2. Injuries aside, I seem to remember another mobile, left-handed throwing QB who struggled early in his career with a team that wasn't that good. Steve Young. 379409[/snapback] but was Young injury prone?....he hasn't exactly struggled....he beat the Packers at Lambeu and then lost to the Eagles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sores Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 If you didn't see the name at the top....what would your evaluation of this player be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 If you didn't see the name at the top....what would your evaluation of this player be? 379433[/snapback] mediocre at best QB....besides the rushing TD's in 2002...his numbers look like McNabbs last year....I mean...Vick went something like 9 games without an INT and then poured them on at the end.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sores Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 mediocre at best QB....besides the rushing TD's in 2002...his numbers look like McNabbs last year....I mean...Vick went something like 9 games without an INT and then poured them on at the end.... 379442[/snapback] I agree....not horrible...but doesn't live up to the hype... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 don't get me wrong...he's the most exciting player when healthy...but what good is he if he can't last?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 If you didn't see the name at the top....what would your evaluation of this player be? 379433[/snapback] I would think that this guy has potential. But then I like to think the glass is half full................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffjunkey Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 (edited) but was Young injury prone?....he hasn't exactly struggled....he beat the Packers at Lambeu and then lost to the Eagles 379419[/snapback] I said "injuries aside" and "early in his career". I think Vick would be a very successful QB with a good supporting cast. EDIT: I misread your response. Vick has struggled against good defenses (like Tampa) early on is his career, but you're right...not like Steve young did. However it's too early to label Vick as injury prone based on a very limited sampling. Edited September 1, 2004 by ffjunkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Hehehe....leave that door open.... Not particularly trying to hedge, but say Vick is ineffective (i.e., dog average or worse passing numbers and the team is also mediocre to bad)for whatever reason this season and next season; maybe by 2006 would they bring someone in to challenge him. "Potential" is often referred to as a "coach killer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 I said "injuries aside" and "early in his career". I think Vick would be a very successful QB with a good supporting cast. EDIT: I misread your response. Vick has struggled against good defenses (like Tampa) early on is his career, but you're right...not like Steve young did. However it's too early to label Vick as injury prone based on a very limited sampling. 379454[/snapback] yea...at 1st I had the replies mixed up....but I recall the Bucs game where he got slammed and left the game...and then the Eagles made him look silly... he hasn't even had many reps with the WCO either....and it took Montana 3 seasons to pick that up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Cracker Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 This pretty much sums it up. Why are there so many Vick-haters out there? In his first season as a starter, he had a 2-1 TD-INT ratio (very rare) and a QB rating above 80 (better than McNabb's 1st starting year). Those two stats compare favorably to just about every other QB in the league. So, in Vick, we basically know he can do very impressive things when he's healthy and, when I say "impressive" I mean in both NFL and entertainment terms. Then, he suffers a broken ankle before last season, decides to wait until he's fully healthy before he plays for a coach trying to save his job on a team WAY out of contention. And, of course, if he's not perfect in his new offense for the first few weeks of this season, then he's definitely a bust. It's too bad we don't have the "rolleyes" graemlin anymore... You guys are INSANE. I'll put any amount of money on the Falcons NOT trading or releasing () Vick. 379350[/snapback] I think this turned into quite a nice fishing trip for my obsession. He didn't even have to jiggle the bait once he threw it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 "Potential" is often referred to as a "coach killer." 379472[/snapback] Not really. Mike Holmgren has made it on potential for 5 years in Seattle and he still hasn't won a playoff game........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Not really. Mike Holmgren has made it on potential for 5 years in Seattle and he still hasn't won a playoff game........... 379528[/snapback] Mike Holmgren has a SB ring and has pretty much gotten away with murder in seattle....Mora won't get away with half of what Holmgren did...especially if Golden Boy Vick decides he doesn't like him anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hop Devil Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 I remember a few years ago I was watching the Vikings vs Dallas at San Antonio. Bennett was a rookie and the knock was he wouldn't get any rushing TD's because of his lack of size, etc. In the game he scored on a 1 yard run and a 3 yard run and I was hooked. I took him high in the second round. I suffered through he 6 total TD's all season and lost may a**. My point is preseason=nothing!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 (edited) Lastly, no one said a great D does not help a QB. You and Swerski are freakin geniuses. But it impacts the team and helps win ballgames and helps to prevent someone from being less predictable (i.e. not having to sling it a million times because you are always losing) more than it helps to show how good a QB is. Dilfer and Boller have/had great D's but no one is going to mistake them for very good QB's or for Vick for that matter--- right? 379332[/snapback] Talk about "genius" comments... Brady got a SB MVP for throwing one TD pass (his team's only offensive score of the SB 36) and less than 200 passing yds. Without Ty Law's interception TD, there no way that his fourth-quarter "drive" to the STL 30 would've won the game. Brady did not put up a great QB performance that game, but obviously someone mistook him for one. That same season, the Steelers defense got Kordell into the Pro Bowl by limiting his INT number to 11. The following season, Brad Johnson completed 63% of his passes and threw only 6 INTs playing with one of the best defenses in the history of the league. When his stud defense fell apart the following season, he threw 21 INTs. So, no, it's completely incorrect to say that a great defense can't make a mediocre QB look like a good one. Edited September 1, 2004 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Mora won't get away with half of what Holmgren did...especially if Golden Boy Vick decides he doesn't like him anymore 379539[/snapback] If Golden Boy Vick can't avoid major injuries and can't learn to play through minor ones, his opinion won't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 If Golden Boy Vick can't avoid major injuries and can't learn to play through minor ones, his opinion won't matter. 379654[/snapback] how long is he under contract for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 (edited) how long is he under contract for? 379656[/snapback] I'm sure that Vick is under contract for a number of years. But if he missed significant time with injuries this season, they'll likely try to deal or outright release him sooner rather than later. Edited September 1, 2004 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Hey has anyone heard about this guy Todd Collins? He's the backup for Trent Green. He has been an absolute monster this preseason. 13-19 165 yards against the Gints 8-11 70 yards against the Rams 12-14 145 yards and 2 D's against the Browns That's 33 for 44 380 yards and 2 TD's splitting time with Green. If I was Trent I wouldn't be getting to comfortable with my job............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.