Guest Sores Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Actually, I though Schaub was dead. Here are his pre-season stats against 1st string defenses: @ Balt 12 for 24 108 yards passing and 3 Ints v. Min 16 for 19 205 yards passing and 3 TDs 0 Ints v. Cin 14 for 20 214 yards passing and 3 TDs 0 Ints 42 for 63 with 527 yards passing 6 Tds and 3 Ints total. 378743[/snapback] Club...do you have access to Vicks numbers from this preseason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 But that's it Club? 3 pre-season games and everyone is foaming at the mouth when talking about him. I just don't get it. They're decent numbers (not Vinnie Testaverde-like, but decent ), but that's it, some OK numbers in a few pre-season games. Like I said, maybe it's me or maybe I'm skeptical or maybe I'm just missing something. 378768[/snapback] Or don't play in any dynasty leagues. He is a must draft in those but probably was even before. Again, just watch him play. I sure as heck would feel alot better about my Cowboys if Henson was putting up those numbers against starting defenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Club...do you have access to Vicks numbers from this preseason? 378772[/snapback] 5 for 9 for 35 yards, didn't check the rushing. Go to www.nfl.com/stats they have some of the best sortable stats you'll ever find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Or don't play in any dynasty leagues. He is a must draft in those but probably was even before. Again, just watch him play. I sure as heck would feel alot better about my Cowboys if Henson was putting up those numbers against starting defenses. 378774[/snapback] I can certainly see his value in a dynasty league, but this thread isn't about that, it's about Schaub being the 2nd coming of Joe Montana and how he should replace Vick right now. That's the part I'm not seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Vick's style just begs for another broken leg. I never said he was the 2nd coming of Montana and I think Vick is too risky of a QB when he's playing his game. Somthing to be said for a team with enough stones to move Vick while he's healthy but I can't see it happening, either. Have you seen him play though? If so what did you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 (edited) I can certainly see his value in a dynasty league, but this thread isn't about that, it's about Schaub being the 2nd coming of Joe Montana and how he should replace Vick right now. That's the part I'm not seeing. 378792[/snapback] THink of it this way... Tom Brady has developed into a heck of a QB, but when he came in he succeeded because he had the right attitude and was a team player as well as a facilitator. Vick is acting like an ass and has let the stardom he achieved on pure talent get into his head. I doubt the coaches want that as their team leader, because it is has been shown that you need a team first philosophy to win. See NE, TB, NE, Balt, Stl, Den, etc.. Sure, those teams had stars, but they didn't have primma donna jerk-offs. EDIT: oops...not counting Warren Sapp. Ray Lewis is not a jerk-off to his team mates. Edited August 31, 2004 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Not a chance in hell. But Vick will get hurt soon enough that it'll happen, but they will not willingly sit Vick for Schaub. Are you kidding me? 378595[/snapback] My feeling is that the Falcons will release or try to trade Vick if he missed a lot of time this year. But as long as he's there, I agree that he's the man. BTW, if Schaub was injured in college, what makes you think that he'll stay healthy in the NFL? Food for thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 My feeling is that the Falcons will release or try to trade Vick if he missed a lot of time this year. But as long as he's there, I agree that he's the man. BTW, if Schaub was injured in college, what makes you think that he'll stay healthy in the NFL? Food for thought... 378818[/snapback] The two games he missed last year with a seperated shoulder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Scorp Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Actually, I though Schaub was dead. Here are his pre-season stats against 1st string defenses: @ Balt 12 for 24 108 yards passing and 3 Ints v. Min 16 for 19 205 yards passing and 3 TDs 0 Ints v. Cin 14 for 20 214 yards passing and 3 TDs 0 Ints 42 for 63 with 527 yards passing 6 Tds and 3 Ints total. Again, I know it is pre-season and that defenses are in flux but those are gawdy #s for a rookie, nevertheless. Add to that, what I saw with my own two eyes. If you have the NFL network see if they show any of the 3 games and see for yourself. 378743[/snapback] He did not play against the Vikings first string defense the entire game! Most of his yards against them came in the second and third quarters against the Vikings backup defense. He did nothing against the starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 (edited) He did not play against the Vikings first string defense the entire game! Most of his yards against them came in the second and third quarters against the Vikings backup defense. He did nothing against the starters. 378872[/snapback] Except the 2 or 3 FG drives and the 47 yards TD pass to Michael Jenkins he led them on in the 2nd quarter. The TD pass came with like 7 1/2 minutes left in the half. Edited August 31, 2004 by Clubfoothead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redknightsgoingdown Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I am not hopping on the Schaub bandwagon, but I am not on the bandwagon for Vick. Face it, the guy is overated. A few really good games and a few others with some nice rushing totals and one victory at lambeau is all he has under his belt. The guy is a pure athlete, with amazing speed, no question. But a suceesfull QB? Not yet. And then you think about how injury prone he is. Look at all of the other mobile QB's (Culpepper, McNair) and they miss a little time here and there and they are beasts compared to Vick. Vick can't weigh more than 200 pounds. Bottom line is I think the Falcons are the most overhyped team this year, Vick is overated as a QB, not athlete, and the Falcons will finish no better than 6-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizards Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 You all are shooting "Blank(s)", because the only way Falcons get rid of Vick is if you shoot Blank!!! Biggest draw to a Falcon Game....Schaub brings nothing to Blank's pocket as will ride the pine and wait for Vick to get tired or hurt or just "need time to heal"... Vick has a lot of talent/potential and will never cash in on it unless there is someone to push him...Schaub's great preseason and threat (even as minimal as it is) to Vick is perfect medicine for a prima donna and QB that thinks he has arrived and doesn't have to work hard...Schaub is what the doctor ordered for Mora...it cause eventually cause Vick to shi@ or get off the pot.......!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Have you seen him play though? If so what did you think? 378800[/snapback] I thought he looked good. And I know you didn't call him the 2nd coming of Montana, I was just making a point. But a lot of people look decent in pre-season. And others don't. I'll have to do some digging to see how other good and bad QB's have done in their pre-season outings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 The two games he missed last year with a seperated shoulder? 378839[/snapback] How much time did Vick miss in college? A couple of games? Players who have difficulty staying healthy in college typically have an even more difficult time staying healthy in the pros. I'm not giving Schaub the "injury prone" tag (I barely know anything about the guy), but I'm not sure it's wise to proclaim a QB who suffered a separated shoulder in college as the savior of the Falcons franchise because Vick can't take the hits. For all we know, Schaub might have even more of a glass jaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 This is the dumbest thread ever. I'm sure the Falcons and Mora are quite prepared to bench their franchise QB, the guy who led them to a playoff victory at Lambeau, the guy they are paying millions to, for a rookie who has had a few good preseason games. Get a grip fellas. Undoubtedly, they are thrilled about having a backup for Mr. Vick. But that is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 This is the dumbest thread ever. I'm sure the Falcons and Mora are quite prepared to bench their franchise QB, the guy who led them to a playoff victory at Lambeau, the guy they are paying millions to, for a rookie who has had a few good preseason games. Get a grip fellas. Undoubtedly, they are thrilled about having a backup for Mr. Vick. But that is it. 379060[/snapback] What he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 (edited) And then you think about how injury prone he is. Look at all of the other mobile QB's (Culpepper, McNair) and they miss a little time here and there and they are beasts compared to Vick. Vick can't weigh more than 200 pounds. 378917[/snapback] How many Super Bowls have the mobile QB's won? Mcnabb, Mcnair, Culpepper? Just as many as Vick. Every time Daunte gets hurt he gets replaced and some no name comes in and throws bombs to Randy. Then there is another QB controversey. Any QB can play with Randy as his WR. Mcnabb has taken the Eagles to championship 3 times in a row but he can't throw straight for $#!t. Steve Air Mcnair was a pile cow chips until recent years. His first 3 years he didn't pass for more than 3,000 yards. 4 out of his first 5 years he couldn't hit for 60% of his passes. His first 6 years his high total of TD passes was 15. Let me repeat 15 TD passes was his high total for 6 years. One thing these guys all have in common is talented players to help them: Daunte has a deep RB core and Randy Moss. Mcnabb has had a top defense to keep him the Eagles competitive Mcnair had Eddie George and a top defense until he found his confidence Tom Brady had a good system and a great coaching staff who nurtured him Look at Jake Plummer, a total loss at Arizona, one season at Denver and you hear procalmations of MVP (incorrectly but they're still being made) At least Vick has shown the potential to play well. At least he has won a game in Lambeau and taken his team to the playoffs. He's played 28 games and started 21. Give the guy a chance to fail before you start writing him off. That's the pressure that a lot of these mobile (meaning black) QB's are facing is that if they don't win a Super Bowl right away then they can't be a QB and they're just a great athlete. Give me a break some guy plays well in preseason and now you want to trade or release Vick? Crazy talk................... Edited August 31, 2004 by phenom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 vick goes wild week one ....... gets hurt week 2 and Schaub starts his HOF career game 3 of the 2004 season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redknightsgoingdown Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 (edited) How many Super Bowls have the mobile QB's won? Mcnabb, Mcnair, Culpepper?Just as many as Vick. Every time Daunte gets hurt he gets replaced and some no name comes in and throws bombs to Randy. Then there is another QB controversey. Any QB can play with Randy as his WR. Mcnabb has taken the Eagles to championship 3 times in a row but he can't throw straight for $#!t. Steve Air Mcnair was a pile cow chips until recent years. His first 3 years he didn't pass for more than 3,000 yards. 4 out of his first 5 years he couldn't hit for 60% of his passes. His first 6 years his high total of TD passes was 15. Let me repeat 15 TD passes was his high total for 6 years. One thing these guys all have in common is talented players to help them: Daunte has a deep RB core and Randy Moss. Mcnabb has had a top defense to keep him the Eagles competitive Mcnair had Eddie George and a top defense until he found his confidence Tom Brady had a good system and a great coaching staff who nurtured him Look at Jake Plummer, a total loss at Arizona, one season at Denver and you hear procalmations of MVP (incorrectly but they're still being made) At least Vick has shown the potential to play well. At least he has won a game in Lambeau and taken his team to the playoffs. He's played 28 games and started 21. Give the guy a chance to fail before you start writing him off. That's the pressure that a lot of these mobile (meaning black) QB's are facing is that if they don't win a Super Bowl right away then they can't be a QB and they're just a great athlete. Give me a break some guy plays well in preseason and now you want to trade or release Vick? Crazy talk................... 379085[/snapback] Phoneom, I am not writing off Vick nor am I forecasting greatness for Schaub. I am merely stating an opinion on how I think he will fare and if I think he can withstand a beating in the NFL. I think he is overated and I don't have a lot of confidence. Secondly, let's not compare what Vick has done to toher QBs because it is irrelevant and it was not what I compared. Vick has not been in the league long enough and has only won 1 playoff game. Next, no one said anything about black QBs. What the hell was that reference in there for? Fourth, releasing him would be ridiculous and trading him at this point is very premature. Lastly, a great defense (Philly) and a washed up Eddie are hardly a great supporting cast. McNabb had trash to throw to and McNair has put up numbers BECAUSE George has crapped the bed and the defense is not what it used to be. Edited September 1, 2004 by redknightsgoingdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 I heard Vick is supposed to get substantial time in the last pre-season game. Maybe he'll learn the new offense then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Phoneom, I am not writing off Vick nor am I forecasting greatness for Schaub. I am merely stating an opinion on how I think he will fare and if I think he can withstand a beating in the NFL. I think he is overated and I don't have a lot of confidence. Secondly, let's not compare what Vick has done to toher QBs because it is irrelevant and it was not what I compared. Vick has not been in the league long enough and has only won 1 playoff game. Next, no one said anything about black QBs. What the hell was that reference in there for? Fourth, releasing him would be ridiculous and trading him at this point is very premature. Lastly, a great defense (Philly) and a washed up Eddie are hardly a great supporting cast. McNabb had trash to throw to and McNair has put up numbers BECAUSE George has crapped the bed and the defense is not what it used to be. 379134[/snapback] First off not everything in my message was directed to your message. Secondly how can you say you are not comparing Vick to other QB's? You did. You compared his durability compared to the others. Believe it or not but that's a comparison. Also you prove my point in that how can Vick really be overrated when he hasn't been in the league that long and he has won a playoff game. What do you want him to do with the talent on the Falcons? Third the black QB reference is to all the posts that said he is great athlete but not a good QB. Who are all the great athletes at QB? Tom Brady is a great athlete? Peyton Manning? Trent Green? Marc Bulger? Matt Hasselbeck? Brad Johnson? Notice the trend here. And you only referenced black QB's. Also lets compare Hasselbeck to Vick. Who has won more playoff games. Vick. Who has more talent on their team? Hasselbeck by far. Who was given 3 seasons to get it right from a supposed great QB coach? Hasselbeck. And lastly Philly's defense has helped carry the Eagles. I would say much more than Mcnabb. How you could even formulate the thought that a great defense isn't a great supporting cast is just well let's not go there. But I bet Boller loves the defense in Baltimore, Mcnair loves the defense in Tennessee, Brady appreciates the defense in New England, Brad Johnson loved the defense in Tampa Bay. Oh and all of those teams went to the Super Bowl what a coincidence. But the defense isn't much of a supporting cast. Also I wasn't referring to the Eddie George of 2000-2003. I specifically repeated that Mcnair only just recently became a good QB. The Eddie George from 1996-2000 carried the Tits more than Mcnair did. Also I'm glad that we can agree that releasing or trading Vick is a dumb idea........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 (edited) How you could even formulate the thought that a great defense isn't a great supporting cast is just well let's not go there. But I bet Boller loves the defense in Baltimore, Mcnair loves the defense in Tennessee, Brady appreciates the defense in New England, Brad Johnson loved the defense in Tampa Bay. Oh and all of those teams went to the Super Bowl what a coincidence. But the defense isn't much of a supporting cast. 379165[/snapback] Well put. Offenses and defenses don't operate independently of one another. QBs most certainly do benefit from their defensive "supporting cast." Just ask Trent Dilfer. Do you think that Dilfer could've done what Peyton Manning did last year? But I digress... Schaub WILL NOT replace Vick unless (until) Vick is physically incapable of playing. Edited September 1, 2004 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagliaboohoo Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 But that's it Club? 3 pre-season games and everyone is foaming at the mouth when talking about him. I just don't get it. They're decent numbers (not Vinnie Testaverde-like, but decent ), but that's it, some OK numbers in a few pre-season games. Like I said, maybe it's me or maybe I'm skeptical or maybe I'm just missing something. 378768[/snapback] They say the most-loved player on the Cowboys is always the 2nd string QB. I assume they say the same thing in other NFL towns. Vick's seeming lack of heart would make me nervous if I were a Falcons fan. But you can't base too much off of a few preseason games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redknightsgoingdown Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 First off not everything in my message was directed to your message. Secondly how can you say you are not comparing Vick to other QB's? You did. You compared his durability compared to the others. Believe it or not but that's a comparison. Also you prove my point in that how can Vick really be overrated when he hasn't been in the league that long and he has won a playoff game. What do you want him to do with the talent on the Falcons? Third the black QB reference is to all the posts that said he is great athlete but not a good QB. Who are all the great athletes at QB? Tom Brady is a great athlete? Peyton Manning? Trent Green? Marc Bulger? Matt Hasselbeck? Brad Johnson? Notice the trend here. And you only referenced black QB's. Also lets compare Hasselbeck to Vick. Who has won more playoff games. Vick. Who has more talent on their team? Hasselbeck by far. Who was given 3 seasons to get it right from a supposed great QB coach? Hasselbeck. And lastly Philly's defense has helped carry the Eagles. I would say much more than Mcnabb. How you could even formulate the thought that a great defense isn't a great supporting cast is just well let's not go there. But I bet Boller loves the defense in Baltimore, Mcnair loves the defense in Tennessee, Brady appreciates the defense in New England, Brad Johnson loved the defense in Tampa Bay. Oh and all of those teams went to the Super Bowl what a coincidence. But the defense isn't much of a supporting cast. Also I wasn't referring to the Eddie George of 2000-2003. I specifically repeated that Mcnair only just recently became a good QB. The Eddie George from 1996-2000 carried the Tits more than Mcnair did. Also I'm glad that we can agree that releasing or trading Vick is a dumb idea........... 379165[/snapback] 1. I compared durability, not performance. 1 playoff game is not everything. Jeff George won a few playoff games, no one ever mistook him for Vick. 2. His talent on the Falcons is not any worse than McNabb's. You made reference to George supporting McNair, I made reference that McNair was good when George was NOT. 3. Defense does help, I am aware of that. However, you still need something to go along with that on the offensive side of the ball. 4. I mentioned two QB's who ran a lot and got hurt and they are freakin tanks. My point is that Vick does not seem durable and his style is not conducive to staying on the field, let alone when you don't weigh 255 like Mcnair or Culpepper. 5. What is your athlete point??? I am not sure if you are being szarcastic or not...Vick is a great athlete. No, Brady, Hasselbeck, Manning, etc are not the best NFL athletes but they are good QB's. I fail to see your point. 6. Vick needs to stay on the field to be good. And when he is on the field he needs to perform and I don't think he will to any degree that he is being hyped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 2. His talent on the Falcons is not any worse than McNabb's.379274[/snapback] When you say something like that I can't even think of anything to say in response.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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