318 Athlete Cardiac Arrests, Serious Issues, 178 Dead, After COVID Shot

[League_Champion]

https://goodsciencing.com/covid/71-athletes-suffer-cardiac-arrest-26-die-after-covid-shot/

[Big Country]

Correlation <> Causation

 

Fact Check-No evidence COVID-19 vaccines are linked to athletes collapsing or dying from myocarditis

 

Fact check: Christian Eriksen didn't receive COVID-19 vaccine before collapsing

 

There’s no proof athletes collapsed with heart issues because of COVID-19 vaccination

[League_Champion]

1 hour ago, LordOpie said:

this is very sad, but will fall on deaf ears. Cognitive bias simply won't allow people to consider anything but the party line info.

 

I just posted it, I'd like to hear both sides. It just really amazes me how passionate some people are when discussing this. How the hell does anyone know if it's safe? The vaccines are still in their infancy. 

[rajncajn]

I'll say that it's worth researching and I would hope that someone really is. However, when a blogger from "goodsciencing.com" posts an article with a sensationalist headline like "178 Dead After Covid Shot" and when you look at the web site & there's things like a link for "Government Overreach" and "Science needs open discussion anything else is totalitarian" and another article "Eyes Wide Open - The Covid Scam" it's really, REALLY difficult to take them as an unbiased source. I looked through the blog post and saw no case studies, no links to medical or scientific research, no medical or scientific resources at all, no peer review, nothing. It's basically just a list of athletes who have died over the past year and a claim or implication that they're Covid vaccination-related. A quick look at the cases shows that a lot of them have nothing that could possibly link them to Covid or the vaccine. A few of them I looked at said the cause of death was undetermined. They even list a 71 yo NFL official who died in his car and Hank Aaron who was 86 years old and suffered a massive stroke. The article even asks you to repeat “The COVID vaccine is a normal vaccine. The COVID vaccine is safe. These injuries and deaths are normal” after reading each dead athlete's name. Sounds more like they are trying to warp people's perspective than offering up "good science."

 

I wouldn't say that being skeptical of the source, their motives & subsequently the information they are purveying has anything to do with cognitive bias and blaming that on party politics is like the pot calling the kettle black in this situation.

[rajncajn]

5 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

I just posted it, I'd like to hear both sides. It just really amazes me how passionate some people are when discussing this. How the hell does anyone know if it's safe? The vaccines are still in their infancy. 

The Long History of mRNA Vaccines | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health (jhu.edu)

[League_Champion]

22 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

The Long History of mRNA Vaccines | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health (jhu.edu)

 

I've had Covid 3 times since I got vaccinated. Ain't that some shizz? Haha 

[rajncajn]

6 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

I've had Covid 3 times since I got vaccinated. Ain't that some shizz? Haha 

I haven't had it once even though I was directly exposed to it at least twice through others in my household.

[rajncajn]

7 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

my concern with articles like that is that they don't seem to go into any details. From what I've read, not one mRNA vaccine has ever been successful. None have ever gone to market. I'd like articles that this one posted to actually go into detail, but they don't. It feels like propaganda?

 

Some extremely extensive detail here:

The tangled history of mRNA vaccines (nature.com)

and here:

Messenger RNA-based vaccines: progress, challenges, applications - PubMed (nih.gov)

 

The issue with that is that I doubt 90% of the people on this planet can even comprehend the information given in those articles, so you also have articles like the Johns Hopkins one that make attempts to simplify it for you. I don't see that as propaganda, I see that as trying to dumb down something that's impossible to explain to anyone outside the medical/scientific community. You may as well be trying to explain quantum physics to someone who can't comprehend gravity. But honestly, if what I posted comes across as propaganda to you and the link LC posted doesn't then I can't really help here.

[Bobby Brown]

Great source Snooki. 

[rajncajn]

1 hour ago, LordOpie said:

i appreciate that you're always trying to bring more info to the discussion, but my comments were related to LC's comments that it's still in its infancy.

Howso? Your comment to me didn't seem at all related to LC's.

 

Quote

I appreciate that you posted an article to suggest it's not, but since zero mrna vaxes made it to market before the EUA was issued should've been a red flag...

"Before 2020, no mRNA technology platform (drug or vaccine) had been authorized for use in humans, so there was a risk of unknown effects." -- mRNA vaccine - Wikipedia

MRNA technology isn't even close to being in it's infancy, however as the Johns Hopkins article stated, until recently they had issues with the body degrading the vaccine before it could become effective.

 

And I don't doubt, nor refute that there are possibilities of adverse effects & I would (and have) equally rebuff any attempt to wash over or dismiss that. However, posting articles (if you want to call them that) that are so obviously biased and rife with bad misinformation is completely counterproductive to having a fair, open-minded discussion. If your starting point is conspiracy theories with false and/or misleading information with absolutely nothing to back it up then where does that put you in the eyes of who would be arguing an opposing viewpoint. If your goal is to enlighten or educate people, you don't do it by trying to scare them. You only do that when you want to control them and that I would say to either side of the discussion.

[Bobby Brown]

A reputable medical institution, that's been around for nearly 150 years is peddling propoganda but a new random blog with random posts is, without question, credible information.

 

Being an edgy conspiracy theoriest seems 'complicated'......to put it kindly.

 

Cognitive dissonance. 😆 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Bobby Brown

[stevegrab]

22 hours ago, League_Champion said:

 

I've had Covid 3 times since I got vaccinated. Ain't that some shizz? Haha 

 

Probably because you think the virus is fake and run around never wearing a mask and spending time indoors with lots of people who have the virus.

 

I've had my shots, got the booster yesterday. Found out somebody at my church testes positive a couple of days after we were in church together, standing relatively close and singing. I took an antigen test and both were negative. Other than going shopping a couple times a week, going to the gym 2-3 times a week and church I'm not out and interacting with others every day. I have dined out, and spent the Thanksgiving holiday with several family members. 

 

You seem intent on trying to discredit the virus that you took presumably voluntarily. I'm not sure why, but like rajn pointed out, your source is a joke. And it tells me you are not really interested in a discussion but spreading a bunch of BS. Or just trying to bait people into some kind of argument. Nobody has ever claimed the vaccines are 100% protection from ever getting the virus. But these "many people took the vaccine and died" stories are mostly just nonsense. 

[stevegrab]

20 hours ago, rajncajn said:

Howso? Your comment to me didn't seem at all related to LC's.

 

MRNA technology isn't even close to being in it's infancy, however as the Johns Hopkins article stated, until recently they had issues with the body degrading the vaccine before it could become effective.

 

And I don't doubt, nor refute that there are possibilities of adverse effects & I would (and have) equally rebuff any attempt to wash over or dismiss that. However, posting articles (if you want to call them that) that are so obviously biased and rife with bad misinformation is completely counterproductive to having a fair, open-minded discussion. If your starting point is conspiracy theories with false and/or misleading information with absolutely nothing to back it up then where does that put you in the eyes of who would be arguing an opposing viewpoint. If your goal is to enlighten or educate people, you don't do it by trying to scare them. You only do that when you want to control them and that I would say to either side of the discussion.

 

Spot on, I'm not sure why LC and others keep trying to use such stupid articles as evidence. I suspect it is because they really don't want an honest discussion, they just want to generate doubt amongst the masses. Even when many of them have taken the vaccine themselves. Its  

[rajncajn]

1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

Probably because you think the virus is fake and run around never wearing a mask and spending time indoors with lots of people who have the virus.

I run around not wearing a mask and live my life as always have. Right this moment I'm sitting in the barber shop with 13 other unmasked people. *gasp* I'm vaccinated,  so I'm not really that worried about it. If I get it then I'll just do the quarantine thing like everyone else. 

 

Nobody has ever claimed the vaccines are 100% protection from ever getting the virus.

Not exactly, but people were certainly led to believe that it was very effective in preventing it. 

[rajncajn]

1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

 

Spot on, I'm not sure why LC and others keep trying to use such stupid articles as evidence. I suspect it is because they really don't want an honest discussion, they just want to generate doubt amongst the masses. Even when many of them have taken the vaccine themselves. Its  

As I said, I think there's enough there to be worth looking into and I certainly don't trust that there won't be future issues that we learn about down the road. He's right that this stuff has just been shoved down our throats and that we should be very wary and not dismiss anything lightly. However,  the article that was posted was simply a bad example and seemed to be written to take advantage of our fears.

Edited December 17, 2021 by rajncajn

[stevegrab]

20 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

I run around not wearing a mask and live my life as always have. Right this moment I'm sitting in the barber shop with 13 other unmasked people. *gasp* I'm vaccinated,  so I'm not really that worried about it. If I get it then I'll just do the quarantine thing like everyone else. 

 

 

 

Not exactly, but people were certainly led to believe that it was very effective in preventing it. 

 

It is doing a pretty good job of keeping people out of the hospital, since somewhere around 80-90% or more of those in the hospital with COVID are unvaxxed. When somebody says "but I was vaccinated how did I get it?" they're being disingenuous.

[Bobby Brown]

45 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

Not exactly, but people were certainly led to believe that it was very effective in preventing it. 

My recollection of earliest studies were that many were unclear on how effective vaccines were for limiting transmission.  Now that we are learning more, many studies are showing the vaccines are, in fact, effective at mitigating spread, but not as effective as they are for preventing deaths and hospitalizations; which is vitally important.

The average joe is getting annoyed that Sciences evolves and knowledge changes over time; especially with something novel. Part of that is ignorance of the Scientific method and part of it is a focused political effort in trying to get the average American to diminish medical expertise.  

Natural selection in real time has never been clearer. 

 

[rajncajn]

8 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

My recollection of earliest studies were that many were unclear on how effective vaccines were for limiting transmission.  Now that we are learning more, many studies are showing the vaccines are, in fact, effective at mitigating spread, but not as effective as they are for preventing deaths and hospitalizations; which is vitally important.

The average joe is getting annoyed that Sciences evolves and knowledge changes over time; especially with something novel. Part of that is ignorance of the Scientific method and part of it is a focused political effort in trying to get the average American to diminish medical expertise.  

Natural selection in real time has never been clearer. 

 

I'm not taking about results from studies. I'm talking about what people were led to believe, mostly by politicians. Had the vaccines been presented in the manner that you're presenting them now then there would probably be a lot less consternation now.

[Big Country]

1 minute ago, rajncajn said:

I'm not taking about results from studies. I'm talking about what people were led to believe, mostly by politicians. Had the vaccines been presented in the manner that you're presenting them now then there would probably be a lot less consternation now.

 

Unfortunately the general population takes in their information from soundbites and memes. The fact the explanation from @Bobby Brown is more than 2 sentences and contains more than 3 polysyllabic words wipes out the comprehension level and attention span of a vast majority of people, including many of our politicians tasked with trying to disseminate this information.

[Bobby Brown]

RIP to my state senator.   I feel horrible for his wife and daughters, who my son knows at a personal level.

 

https://www.yakimaherald.com/news/state_news/washington-state-sen-doug-ericksen-dies-had-contracted-covid-19-while-in-el-salvador/article_e864b7c7-bad2-5db0-bf0f-469e0bb10a65.html

He made a lot of money in Cambodia also from their prime minister former Khmer Rouge guy.

Apparently being an edgy anti-vaxxer going to countries with high CV rates to cash a check isn't all it's cracked up to be.