Cameltosis Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 4th quarter last night the Packers challenge the spot of the ball in a play that the Bears got the first down. The challenge is upheld and the ball is moved back a couple inches. However, it is still enough for a first down. My question is why does GB still loose their timeout. The spot of the ball did indeed move. Why is the fact that the Bears still got the first down relevant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I'd like to challenge the assertion that McCarthy was capable of generating a brain wave last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleW64 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 4th quarter last night the Packers challenge the spot of the ball in a play that the Bears got the first down. The challenge is upheld and the ball is moved back a couple inches. However, it is still enough for a first down. My question is why does GB still loose their timeout. The spot of the ball did indeed move. Why is the fact that the Bears still got the first down relevant? IIRC, the referee said that GB challenge whether it was a first down or not. Semantics. Had they challenged the spot (as you noted in your post) they would have covered their bases because if the ball gets moved back they win the challenge whether it was a first down or or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magagnon Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 My question is why does GB still loose their timeout. The spot of the ball did indeed move. Why is the fact that the Bears still got the first down relevant? I might be wrong, but I think it's because when you challenge a play, you challenge the whole play. Therefore, when McCarthy challenged the spot of the ball that resulted in a first down, he actually challenges that the spot of the ball does not give Chicago a first down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Stupid rule in my book. He should not have lost a timeout for that because they discovered the play to be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wide-Eyed Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I thought he was challenging the spotting of the ball. Since the ball was spotted wrong, he should not have lost a time-out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I thought he was challenging the spotting of the ball. Since the ball was spotted wrong, he should not have lost a time-out. According to the announcers, he challenged the decision of it being a first down. FWIW, I'm a Bears fan and I thought either the ball should have gone back further than it did (if you believe Benson's leg was down) or it should not have been moved at all (inconclusive evidence). What they actually did was neither one thing nor the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguinsfan Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 IIRC, the referee said that GB challenge whether it was a first down or not. Semantics. Had they challenged the spot (as you noted in your post) they would have covered their bases because if the ball gets moved back they win the challenge whether it was a first down or or not. That's what I got out of it as well. He challenged whether or not it was a first down. The looked at the replay, moved the ball back, then measured for the first down again. No first down...challenge lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 That's what I got out of it as well. He challenged whether or not it was a first down. The looked at the replay, moved the ball back, then measured for the first down again. No first down...challenge lost. So in theory if he challenged the spot of the ball and it was moved lets say 2 yards (exaggerating) back he would win the challenge but it wont be a first down because he didnt challenge that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 (edited) I don't think it was semantics. I believe it is an NFL rule that if you challenge the spot of a ball, then the on the field first down ruling, has to be switched, for the challenge to be considered successful. Similar to ball crossing the plane for the endzone. I believe the rule is in place to eliminate coaches challenging any given spot at any given time. For instance, it could become mind numbingly annoying if action was stopped for review, 2-3 times every game ,when teams felt they got a bad spot by a half yard or so, but wouldn't result in a first down or a TD. I think I like the rule. This rule was put in place after replay was re-introduced because 4-5 minute review delays were happening to move the ball a couple inches, teams keep their timeout, very little impact on the game.. Edited October 8, 2007 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I don't think it was semantics. I believe it is an NFL rule that if you challenge the spot of a ball, then the on the field first down ruling, has to be switched, for the challenge to be considered successful. Similar to ball crossing the plane for the endzone. I believe the rule is in place to eliminate coaches challenging any given spot at any given time. For instance, it could become mind numbingly annoying if action was stopped for review, 2-3 times every game ,when teams felt they got a bad spot by a half yard or so, but wouldn't result in a first down or a TD. I think I like the rule. This rule was put in place after replay was re-introduced because 4-5 minute review delays were happening to move the ball a couple inches, teams keep their timeout, very little impact on the game.. This actually makes sense to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 And apparently I don't know what I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Buffalo was not charged with a timeout, though Dallas still got the first down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Buffalo was not charged with a timeout, though Dallas still got the first down. Then I guess Green Bay challenged the first down result...the official said both last night....the spot and the resultant first down. Like I stated....if they would had simply challenged the spot....and then asked for a measurement...me thinks that would have been the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha-z Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 It was because Jauron didn't challenge the first down, only the spot. That was the mistake McCarthy made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunther Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 It was because Jauron didn't challenge the first down, only the spot. That was the mistake McCarthy made. This sounds plausible. I'm guessing this makes the Wednesday night NFL Total Access with Pererra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 (edited) It was because Jauron didn't challenge the first down, only the spot. That was the mistake McCarthy made. If that's the case that is foucking retarded. Why would the coach have to say he's challenging the spot of the ball? There's no reason for him to make a distinction other than a really dumb rule. Edited October 9, 2007 by Jackass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha-z Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 If that's the case that is foucking retarded. Why would the coach have to say he's challenging the spot of the ball? There's no reason for him to make a distinction other than a really dumb rule. It's the same reason that if a certain call is challenged and they see a face mask or some other penalty, it can't be called. Have to be specific. Dumb, maybe, but that's how they do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleW64 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 So it went something like this: McCarthy (throws the red flag): I don't think that's a first down. Ref: SO you are challenging the first down? McCarthy: Yup. Challenging the first down. (Ref checks the replay.) Ref: After review, the ball will be respotted. The result is still a first down. GB is charged a timeout because GB challenged the 1st down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha-z Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 So it went something like this: McCarthy (throws the red flag): I don't think that's a first down. Ref: SO you are challenging the first down? McCarthy: Yup. Challenging the first down. (Ref checks the replay.) Ref: After review, the ball will be respotted. The result is still a first down. GB is charged a timeout because GB challenged the 1st down. Personally, I don't think he should have even challenged the play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 It's the same reason that if a certain call is challenged and they see a face mask or some other penalty, it can't be called. Have to be specific. Dumb, maybe, but that's how they do it. Not the same thing at all. Penalties cannot be reviewed. Plus, there's no reason for a coach to challenge anything but the spot of the ball. They should just do that every time. But why make them say it, it should just be implied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha-z Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Not the same thing at all. Penalties cannot be reviewed. Plus, there's no reason for a coach to challenge anything but the spot of the ball. They should just do that every time. But why make them say it, it should just be implied. I'm just stating that anything other than what was asked to be reviewed cannot be called or reviewed or overturned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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