Crabtree

[untateve]

why is that

 

I cannot respond to your existential question as one cannot provide an answer to that which is unknowable.

[DMD]

One factor that may be part of Crabtree's reasoning is that 2010 is an uncapped year so maybe a team will really overpay for a player as special as he is. I just cannot imagine he would be a top ten player next year so he would be drafted later. And the Mike Williams scenario will play huge in this - is it possible that Crabtree has no one around him mentioning how NFL teams view players who sit out a year now?

[WaterMan]

One factor that may be part of Crabtree's reasoning is that 2010 is an uncapped year so maybe a team will really overpay for a player as special as he is. I just cannot imagine he would be a top ten player next year so he would be drafted later. And the Mike Williams scenario will play huge in this - is it possible that Crabtree has no one around him mentioning how NFL teams view players who sit out a year now?

 

It seems that sitting out two years doesn't affect your value too much. But you have to be a special player.

[Randall]

I didn't know that nuke was into gay porn.

 

 

Is it still gay if the players don't know they're gay?

[piratesownninjas]

Is it still gay if the players don't know they're gay?

Is it still gay if the gheys are thinking about women while being ghey?

Edited September 13, 2009 by piratesownninjas

[Wpob]

Dear Mr. Crabtree,

 

As a Josh Morgan owner, I fully support your boycott of all things 49ers and hope you stay away from SF and sit out the whole year.

 

Sincerely,

 

A Josh Morgan Fan

 

PS - Enjoy the draft next year - if you thought falling to 10 was bad, wait until you drop to 20...or more.

[Randall]

Adam Schefter, of ESPN, reports there has been no progress in contract talks between the San Francisco 49ers and first-round draft pick WR Michael Crabtree and that Crabtree will re-enter the NFL Draft in 2010.

 

What are the odds he does this next year, doesn't like that team and sits out another season?

[Delicious_bass]

One factor that may be part of Crabtree's reasoning is that 2010 is an uncapped year so maybe a team will really overpay for a player as special as he is. I just cannot imagine he would be a top ten player next year so he would be drafted later. And the Mike Williams scenario will play huge in this - is it possible that Crabtree has no one around him mentioning how NFL teams view players who sit out a year now?

You'd have to think this is part of their thinking. Still, awfully risky for my taste. What's that saying? Something about a bird in the hand? Someone offers me multiple millions I am taking it even if its a few less than I was hoping for...

 

Adam Schefter, of ESPN, reports there has been no progress in contract talks between the San Francisco 49ers and first-round draft pick WR Michael Crabtree and that Crabtree will re-enter the NFL Draft in 2010.

 

What are the odds he does this next year, doesn't like that team and sits out another season?

Again, just seems like too much risk. Passing up millions for the hope of getting a few more millions doesnt compute real well with me. He tries to do that and anything that happens to him could leave him completely SOL whereas he could take the Niners offer and basically be set for life

[Furd]

Is anybody anywhere on team Crabtree in this debate?

 

I don't know what you mean by being "on" team Crabtree. From my perspective, it doesn't seem to be a prudent move on his apart. And I can understand those that scratch their heads or call Crabtree a dumbass or whatever.

 

What I don't get is the pure venom some people spew at this guy. Its outrageous! He's a piece of sh*t! He disrepects the game! I hope that somebody pounds him to a pulp! Really????

 

As I see it, whatever the "expectations" are, the guy has no obligation to accept a deal that he doesn't like. And the Niners have no obligation to pay Crabtree more than they want to pay. Its pretty simple. It doesn't change because you have a low paying job, or because Crabtree is not an accountant or that he stands to make big $$$ if he signs a deal.

 

It cracks me up when someone suggests that , in effect, additional millions of dollars are peanuts and to want them just makes one greedy. That's a lot of money. There's a pretty big difference between $10 million and $11 million dollars. You're naive if you think otherwise. I can't imagine even suggesting to a client in a business deal that they are essentially the same amount. To say, what do you need the extra million for - you have plenty of money. Its preposterous.

 

Who is going to legitimately blame anyone for trying to make as much money as he/she can, particularly if the contract is not guaranteed. If Crabtree goes down in his second year, that could be it. Except for a small percentage of people, we work to get paid. Those guys are businessmen. Hell, some of them are a business. Long gone are the days when a guy drove a milk truck in the offseason to pay the bills.

 

Look at it from another perspective. What if the Niners had taken a position that Crabtree was worth $1 million a year, and Crabtree said no way. is the Niners owner an assh*le. Is he disrepecting the game? Should Jack Lambert beat him to a pulp? Move up and down the negotiating scale. At what point does one side or the other became the bad guy? Or the POS deserving of a beating? Is the team always in the right?

 

An athlete is "holding out." (The owners did a nice job with that phrase.) So what?

 

Some of you need to get a grip.

[Delicious_bass]

I don't know what you mean by being "on" team Crabtree. From my perspective, it doesn't seem to be a prudent move on his apart. And I can understand those that scratch their heads or call Crabtree a dumbass or whatever.

 

What I don't get is the pure venom some people spew at this guy. Its outrageous! He's a piece of sh*t! He disrepects the game! I hope that somebody pounds him to a pulp! Really????

 

As I see it, whatever the "expectations" are, the guy has no obligation to accept a deal that he doesn't like. And the Niners have no obligation to pay Crabtree more than they want to pay. Its pretty simple. It doesn't change because you have a low paying job, or because Crabtree is not an accountant or that he stands to make big $$$ if he signs a deal.

 

It cracks me up when someone suggests that , in effect, additional millions of dollars are peanuts and to want them just makes one greedy. That's a lot of money. There's a pretty big difference between $10 million and $11 million dollars. You're naive if you think otherwise. I can't imagine even suggesting to a client in a business deal that they are essentially the same amount. To say, what do you need the extra million for - you have plenty of money. Its preposterous.

 

Who is going to legitimately blame anyone for trying to make as much money as he/she can, particularly if the contract is not guaranteed. If Crabtree goes down in his second year, that could be it. Except for a small percentage of people, we work to get paid. Those guys are businessmen. Hell, some of them are a business. Long gone are the days when a guy drove a milk truck in the offseason to pay the bills.

 

Look at it from another perspective. What if the Niners had taken a position that Crabtree was worth $1 million a year, and Crabtree said no way. is the Niners owner an assh*le. Is he disrepecting the game? Should Jack Lambert beat him to a pulp? Move up and down the negotiating scale. At what point does one side or the other became the bad guy? Or the POS deserving of a beating? Is the team always in the right?

 

An athlete is "holding out." (The owners did a nice job with that phrase.) So what?

 

Some of you need to get a grip.

I'll never fault anyone for wanting to make as much money as possible. I would be a hugh hypocrite if I did. Its that he's really risking a ton of money for the chance at getting more that has me questioning him. It would be different if he was making a big bet when he was already rolling on house money, but he's not. He could come out of this with nothing. He may not like the Niners offer, and the actual yearly salary is not guaranteed, but how much of a signing bonus is he passing up?

[0-16 Again]

If he sits out because of money at pick 10, what team in their right mind would pick him after pick ten in round one next year. What would really be funny is if the entire league passed on him in round one next year and he fell to round #2. The entire league could send a message to the college kids, be thankful for the opportunity.

Edited September 14, 2009 by 0-16 Again

[detlef]

I don't know what you mean by being "on" team Crabtree. From my perspective, it doesn't seem to be a prudent move on his apart. And I can understand those that scratch their heads or call Crabtree a dumbass or whatever.

 

What I don't get is the pure venom some people spew at this guy. Its outrageous! He's a piece of sh*t! He disrepects the game! I hope that somebody pounds him to a pulp! Really????

 

As I see it, whatever the "expectations" are, the guy has no obligation to accept a deal that he doesn't like. And the Niners have no obligation to pay Crabtree more than they want to pay. Its pretty simple. It doesn't change because you have a low paying job, or because Crabtree is not an accountant or that he stands to make big $$$ if he signs a deal.

 

It cracks me up when someone suggests that , in effect, additional millions of dollars are peanuts and to want them just makes one greedy. That's a lot of money. There's a pretty big difference between $10 million and $11 million dollars. You're naive if you think otherwise. I can't imagine even suggesting to a client in a business deal that they are essentially the same amount. To say, what do you need the extra million for - you have plenty of money. Its preposterous.

 

Who is going to legitimately blame anyone for trying to make as much money as he/she can, particularly if the contract is not guaranteed. If Crabtree goes down in his second year, that could be it. Except for a small percentage of people, we work to get paid. Those guys are businessmen. Hell, some of them are a business. Long gone are the days when a guy drove a milk truck in the offseason to pay the bills.

 

Look at it from another perspective. What if the Niners had taken a position that Crabtree was worth $1 million a year, and Crabtree said no way. is the Niners owner an assh*le. Is he disrepecting the game? Should Jack Lambert beat him to a pulp? Move up and down the negotiating scale. At what point does one side or the other became the bad guy? Or the POS deserving of a beating? Is the team always in the right?

 

An athlete is "holding out." (The owners did a nice job with that phrase.) So what?

 

Some of you need to get a grip.

Well said.

 

Personally, I think he's making a foolish mistake because I doubt this works out well for him. Here was a guy being hyped as #1 overall talent and somehow he managed to fall to pick 10, after, another WR was taken. That has to mean that the cat was sort of out of the bag in terms of this guy already and this will not make that any better. Maybe this means he lands on a pass happy team and gets a great paycheck down the road but that's a pretty risky prop considering 1) you need to end up on that team and 2) you need to actually excel.

 

That said, this doesn't make him a bad person, nor does the fact that I sweat it out for far less than he does.

 

As for the niners losing their pick. Until they can figure out how to get a rookie salary structure in place, losing a top 10 pick will be a blessing in disguise. And I'm a niner fan.

[Ursa Majoris]

I don't know what you mean by being "on" team Crabtree. From my perspective, it doesn't seem to be a prudent move on his apart. And I can understand those that scratch their heads or call Crabtree a dumbass or whatever.

 

What I don't get is the pure venom some people spew at this guy. Its outrageous! He's a piece of sh*t! He disrepects the game! I hope that somebody pounds him to a pulp! Really????

 

As I see it, whatever the "expectations" are, the guy has no obligation to accept a deal that he doesn't like. And the Niners have no obligation to pay Crabtree more than they want to pay. Its pretty simple. It doesn't change because you have a low paying job, or because Crabtree is not an accountant or that he stands to make big $$$ if he signs a deal.

 

It cracks me up when someone suggests that , in effect, additional millions of dollars are peanuts and to want them just makes one greedy. That's a lot of money. There's a pretty big difference between $10 million and $11 million dollars. You're naive if you think otherwise. I can't imagine even suggesting to a client in a business deal that they are essentially the same amount. To say, what do you need the extra million for - you have plenty of money. Its preposterous.

 

Who is going to legitimately blame anyone for trying to make as much money as he/she can, particularly if the contract is not guaranteed. If Crabtree goes down in his second year, that could be it. Except for a small percentage of people, we work to get paid. Those guys are businessmen. Hell, some of them are a business. Long gone are the days when a guy drove a milk truck in the offseason to pay the bills.

 

Look at it from another perspective. What if the Niners had taken a position that Crabtree was worth $1 million a year, and Crabtree said no way. is the Niners owner an assh*le. Is he disrepecting the game? Should Jack Lambert beat him to a pulp? Move up and down the negotiating scale. At what point does one side or the other became the bad guy? Or the POS deserving of a beating? Is the team always in the right?

 

An athlete is "holding out." (The owners did a nice job with that phrase.) So what?

 

Some of you need to get a grip.

I agree with virtually all of this. I do happen to think it's a foolish gamble on his part because as many others have pointed out, he could end up with nothing at all or, more likely, much less than is currently on the table. That certainly would not be my stance - I'd grab what was there simply because NFL contracts are not guaranteed but that money sitting on the table IS guaranteed.

 

That said, it's a free country however much the NFL would wish it otherwise and Crabtree has every right to sit out and go into the 2010 draft. I just think it's a major strategic error on his part born of bad advice and annoyance at, in his view, being undervalued. I guess not everyone has figured out that NFL teams (apart from Oakland and Dallas and a couple others) are paying a lot more attention to character than they used to and that's why he fell to #10.

[Randall]

If he sits out because of money at pick 10, what team in their right mind would pick him after pick ten in round one next year. What would really be funny is if the entire league passed on him in round one next year and he fell to round #2. The entire league could send a message to the college kids, be thankful for the opportunity.

 

 

A lot of teams probably that think he would like to play for. The trouble is he can't talk with the or work out without the 49'ers permission before the draft.

 

The problem is if he wouldn't play for SF he should have said so earlier so they could trade him. I think he's been getting poor advice.

 

If he's happy why wouldn't a team that thinks he'd improve their chances of winning want him?

 

I think once he sees SF's offense doing well he'll sign with them. He'd be giving up $millions waiting out the year.

[SF409ers]

That'd be awesome.

 

he's such an idiot.

 

As a 49er fan that would be FAR from awesome. The 49ers are basically looking at loosing a high 1st round pick if he holds out and right now that's the last thing they can afford to do is waste another high 1st.

 

If he does indeed hold out, and my understanding is that they are NOT going to raise their offer, all they can hope for is to somehow trade him next year before the draft starts and get at least something in return. Of course the best case scenario would be he re-enters and falls out of the first and the 49ers draft him again in the second

[Ursa Majoris]

What was wrong with his character before the draft? I heard the rumor about his visit to CLE, but I thought he fell cuz of injury?

I thought he had a rep as a prima donna but then again, he is a WR and most of them are like that so.......

[detlef]

As a 49er fan that would be FAR from awesome. The 49ers are basically looking at loosing a high 1st round pick if he holds out and right now that's the last thing they can afford to do is waste another high 1st.

 

If he does indeed hold out, and my understanding is that they are NOT going to raise their offer, all they can hope for is to somehow trade him next year before the draft starts and get at least something in return. Of course the best case scenario would be he re-enters and falls out of the first and the 49ers draft him again in the second

Thing is, for the pick to be truly a waste, they'd have to sign him and have him turn out not to be good, yet be a major cap hit/financial hassle. At this point, he's neither of the latter two.

 

Given the insanely high salaries commanded by top 10 picks relative to every other unproven player in the league, one could argue that you're simply better off having it end up like this than having them sign. Check out the success ratio of top 10 picks compared to how much more expensive they are to sign than lower round players or even unsigned FAs. The risk reward is off the charts bad.

[Judge Smales]

It cracks me up when someone suggests that , in effect, additional millions of dollars are peanuts and to want them just makes one greedy. That's a lot of money. There's a pretty big difference between $10 million and $11 million dollars. You're naive if you think otherwise. I can't imagine even suggesting to a client in a business deal that they are essentially the same amount. To say, what do you need the extra million for - you have plenty of money. Its preposterous.

 

In business it's called the time value of money / discount rate / etc. If this discount rate is 10% (we use numbers higher than this typically, but that is business not personal finance) then he needs to make $1 million more next year for every $10 million being offered this year. If he thinks he will get that much more next year then the more power to him. He does / should take into account the time factor of not getting "paid" for one year, may not make a difference to him, but it would make a difference to me.

 

My point is when you get your money does make a difference on the amount you get paid. Personally I think his offer next year can go nowhere but down since he will be "out of the game" for a year, can't work out for anyone, can't negotiate with anyone, etc. It's a no win scenario for him IMO by sitting out, unless he can convince the 49'ers to sign him to a one year contract (I have no idea if the bargaining agreement will allow this), which I don't see how this is in the Niners best interest.

[SeductiveNun]

Well, the world needs ditch diggers too.

Fixed

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, just couldn't resist what with your username and this being a discussion about money.

[Cunning Runt]

I don't know what you mean by being "on" team Crabtree. From my perspective, it doesn't seem to be a prudent move on his apart. And I can understand those that scratch their heads or call Crabtree a dumbass or whatever.

 

What I don't get is the pure venom some people spew at this guy. Its outrageous! He's a piece of sh*t! He disrepects the game! I hope that somebody pounds him to a pulp! Really????

 

As I see it, whatever the "expectations" are, the guy has no obligation to accept a deal that he doesn't like. And the Niners have no obligation to pay Crabtree more than they want to pay. Its pretty simple. It doesn't change because you have a low paying job, or because Crabtree is not an accountant or that he stands to make big $$$ if he signs a deal.

 

It cracks me up when someone suggests that , in effect, additional millions of dollars are peanuts and to want them just makes one greedy. That's a lot of money. There's a pretty big difference between $10 million and $11 million dollars. You're naive if you think otherwise. I can't imagine even suggesting to a client in a business deal that they are essentially the same amount. To say, what do you need the extra million for - you have plenty of money. Its preposterous.

 

Who is going to legitimately blame anyone for trying to make as much money as he/she can, particularly if the contract is not guaranteed. If Crabtree goes down in his second year, that could be it. Except for a small percentage of people, we work to get paid. Those guys are businessmen. Hell, some of them are a business. Long gone are the days when a guy drove a milk truck in the offseason to pay the bills.

 

Look at it from another perspective. What if the Niners had taken a position that Crabtree was worth $1 million a year, and Crabtree said no way. is the Niners owner an assh*le. Is he disrepecting the game? Should Jack Lambert beat him to a pulp? Move up and down the negotiating scale. At what point does one side or the other became the bad guy? Or the POS deserving of a beating? Is the team always in the right?

 

An athlete is "holding out." (The owners did a nice job with that phrase.) So what?

 

Some of you need to get a grip.

 

Valid points if you were talking about a FREE AGENT.

 

We're not though. We're talking about an unsigned rookie. He's being offered more money than last year's #10 pick and is being offered money where it should be - in between this year's #9 pick's money and the #11 pick's money.

 

It honestly does boil down to the fact that he thinks he is better than Heyward-Bey and wants that kind of money or more. He's pissing in the breeze against the "system". He's gonna regret it big time.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Cunning Runt

[Randall]

In business it's called the time value of money / discount rate / etc. If this discount rate is 10% (we use numbers higher than this typically, but that is business not personal finance) then he needs to make $1 million more next year for every $10 million being offered this year. If he thinks he will get that much more next year then the more power to him. He does / should take into account the time factor of not getting "paid" for one year, may not make a difference to him, but it would make a difference to me.

 

My point is when you get your money does make a difference on the amount you get paid. Personally I think his offer next year can go nowhere but down since he will be "out of the game" for a year, can't work out for anyone, can't negotiate with anyone, etc. It's a no win scenario for him IMO by sitting out, unless he can convince the 49'ers to sign him to a one year contract (I have no idea if the bargaining agreement will allow this), which I don't see how this is in the Niners best interest.

 

 

If he signs he can be traded. Why he isn't going that route?

[Furd]

Valid points if you were talking about a FREE AGENT.

 

We're not though. We're talking about an unsigned rookie. He's being offered more money than last year's #10 pick and is being offered money where it should be - in between this year's #9 pick's money and the #11 pick's money.

 

I don't see a real distinction between a rookie and a free agent. The only difference, as I see it, is that the rookie can only sign with one team, where a free agent probably has the opportunity to sign with just about any team. Neither has an obligation to sign a contract.

[The Wolf]

Out of curiosity, can this tool sign a one year deal to play 2009 with SF and then become a restricted FA next season?

 

Admittedly, I know nothing about the slotting system and the CBA, but this may allow SF to get something for Crabtree in the off-season (if another team signs him to an offer sheet, which one will do, most likely).

[Big John]

Out of curiosity, can this tool sign a one year deal to play 2009 with SF and then become a restricted FA next season?

 

Admittedly, I know nothing about the slotting system and the CBA, but this may allow SF to get something for Crabtree in the off-season (if another team signs him to an offer sheet, which one will do, most likely).

He could sign a 1-year contract, but would become an "exclusive-rights" free agent next year, meaning the 49ers would be the only team allowed to sign him unless he is cut or traded. A player needs 3 years vested experience to become a restricted free agent, and sitting out a year would not count towards the vested experience.

[detlef]

Valid points if you were talking about a FREE AGENT.

 

We're not though. We're talking about an unsigned rookie. He's being offered more money than last year's #10 pick and is being offered money where it should be - in between this year's #9 pick's money and the #11 pick's money.

 

It honestly does boil down to the fact that he thinks he is better than Heyward-Bey and wants that kind of money or more. He's pissing in the breeze against the "system". He's gonna regret it big time.

Really? Where "should" it be. If we've learned anything about the NFL draft it's that the league has been unable to establish any truly reliable salary slotting. Winslow's agent pulled this stunt when he was a rookie. As long as the system remains as is and enough owners are unable to control themselves, this will continue.

 

That's the funny thing. The likelihood of most top 10 pick rookies ever providing a good return on investment is pretty slim. Even those that do pan out, take a few years to do so. Meanwhile, you've been paying them elite salaries the entire time. So, it's not the end of the world to just skip it entirely. My guess is that this entire mess is being driven by loud and uninformed fan bases being outraged at teams not bringing their shiny new toy into camp, so they cave and pay what the agents want. What they don't realize is that devoting so much cap space to an unproven is not just fiscally irresponsible but also not a good way to put a winning product on the field. We assume that Crabtree will be a playmaker but we honestly have no idea. Maybe he's Calvin Johnson, but maybe he's Mike Williams. With so many solid WRs in the league that didn't come from the top half of the draft, why not just bring 4 of them into camp for 1/2 what you're going to tie up on Crabtree and hope for the best?

 

None the less, I doubt that Furd is implying that this is a wise decision on the part of Crabtree, rather that he doesn't it owe it to anyone to sign and play. He can do whatever the hell he wants including risking a very lucrative contract in a ploy to win a bigger one. If this blows up in his face, that's his problem, but he doesn't owe the league or it's fans an apology.