Manning done for the year?

[byron2112]

Other than the fact that Manning is incomparable and irreplaceable, I think the Colts are in trouble because they just haven't drafted well the last several seasons... particularly not getting much from their top picks...

 

 

2010 31 Jerry Hughes DE Texas Christian

2009 27 Donald Brown RB Connecticut

2008 No Pick - (traded for the right to draft OT Tony Ugoh the previous season I believe)

2007 32 Anthony Gonzalez WR Ohio State

2006 30 Joseph Addai RB Louisiana State

2005 29 Marlin Jackson DB Michigan

 

 

Granted they have been drafting low, but prior to this hot mess they built their franchise with a pretty stellar run of top draft selections...

 

 

2004 44 Bob Sanders DB Iowa(no 1st round selection this season)

2003 24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa

2002 11 Dwight Freeney DE Syracuse

2001 30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami (Fla.)

2000 28 Rob Morris LB Brigham Young

1999 4 Edgerrin James RB Miami (Fla.)

1998 1 Peyton Manning QB Tennessee

1997 19 Tarik Glenn G California

1996 19 Marvin Harrison WR Syracuse

Edited September 7, 2011 by byron2112

[Goopster24]

Brady is a system QB. That's no kncok on him. So was Montana. They were (are) absolutely the best at reading the way Ds aligned and which receiver the D would be forced to leave a with a larger window, and then they both put the ball in great spots where their guys could (can) rack up hugh yards afterwards.

 

There's no denegrating Brady by putting him in that category. He may be a system QB, but he's also one of the top system QBs in NFL history. He's still reading Ds and making the proper changes at the line - and he does that as well as anyone right now.

 

Who's the greatest QB you've ever seen?

[Bronco Billy]

I think there might be a few, but what he does is very impressive. If he hangs them up it will make me sad. Very fun to watch Peyton play.

 

I think Brady, Kelly, Young could run that offense.

 

I think they could also, but not the way Manning has done. Kelly is an interesting addition to the discussion, though, for sure.

[detlef]

Other than the fact that Manning is incomparable and irreplaceable, I think the Colts are in trouble because they just haven't drafted well the last several seasons... particularly not getting much from their top picks...

 

 

2010 31 Jerry Hughes DE Texas Christian

2009 27 Donald Brown RB Connecticut

2008 No Pick - (traded for Tony for Tony Ugoh I believe)

2007 32 Anthony Gonzalez WR Ohio State

2006 30 Joseph Addai RB Louisiana State

2005 29 Marlin Jackson DB Michigan

 

Granted they have been drafting low, but prior to this hot mess they built their franchise with a pretty stellar run of top draft selections...

 

 

2003 24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa

2002 11 Dwight Freeney DE Syracuse

2001 30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami (Fla.)

2000 28 Rob Morris LB Brigham Young

1999 4 Edgerrin James RB Miami (Fla.)

1998 1 Peyton Manning QB Tennessee

1997 19 Tarik Glenn G California

1996 19 Marvin Harrison WR Syracuse

That's a pretty illustrative set of picks.

[Bronco Billy]

Who's the greatest QB you've ever seen?

 

I've said for a few years now that Manning is that guy. He's the perfect storm - the throwback playcaller who understands the intracies of his O better than his coaches, but he's got all the tools and strength of the newer breed of QBs.

 

Put Bart Starr's head on Johnny U's body and you've got Manning. Give Montana Favre's arm and you've got Manning. There's never been a guy with literally no weaknesses at QB like Manning. Every aspect of his game is strong.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[MustOfBeenDrunk]

Who's the greatest QB you've ever seen?

 

 

Warren Moon

[Ursa Majoris]

That's a good point but let's not forget the dude retired...let's say he said no. Who then is next best option?

Jeff George?

 

And frankly, I don't buy that "plan." Bears have been living off that plan for 20 years it seems. How's it helped them?

It would be an awesome plan for the Bears, far better than their real "plan".

[bpwallace49]

Who's the greatest QB you've ever seen?

 

Brett Favre?

 

[Goopster24]

I've said for a few years now that Manning is that guy. He's the perfect storm - the throwback playcaller who understands the intracies of his O better than his coaches, but he's got all the tools and strength of the newer breed of QBs.

 

Put Bart Starr's head on Johnny U's body and you've got Manning. Give Montana Favre's arm and you've got Manning. There's never been a guy with literally no weaknesses at QB like Manning. Every aspect of his game is strong.

 

Except his playoff record....

[CaptainHook]

The Colts first round draft picks the last four years have sucked. Marlin Jackson and Joseph Addai were fine, but it goes to crap after that.

 

Gonzalez is made of glass.

Ugoh and Pollak were complete busts, and whiffing on them is the reason the offensive line was in shambles last year.

Donald Brown and Jerry Hughes have not been able to land even second string spots.

 

Thankfully they have had some later round picks pan out. Jerraud Powers, Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon, and Jacob Lacey, for example.

 

But like was pointed out, they went on a string of unbelievable first round picks from 1998-2006.

Edited September 7, 2011 by CaptainHook

[Bronco Billy]

Except his playoff record....

 

That's only a testament to how far he carried teams that wouldn't have gotten there in the first place - a lot like this year's team. Favre did the same thing. Lifted up the guys around him and made mediocre teams into contenders. Made a lot of guys around him look a lot better than they were. But come playoff time when you've got to string 3 or 4 Ws together against nothing but the best in the league, even he couldn't pull that off.

 

Think of it this way - put Manning in charge of those 80s 49ers teams or those 70s Steelers teams, and you'd have teams that would have won 5 SBs in a row. No other team in league history could have competed with them.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[CaptainHook]

Except his playoff record....

Says the Bears fan. . .

 

[Goopster24]

Says the Bears fan. . .

 

 

Haha I know, it was a joke! I think pointing to his playoff record is so weak, ignores so much, like BB saying.

[boltnlava]

Who's the greatest QB you've ever seen?

 

Fouts. F'n Ice Bowl.

[Caveman_Nick]

I think they could also, but not the way Manning has done. Kelly is an interesting addition to the discussion, though, for sure.

 

We'll never know. A similar argument could be made in reverse wrt the complex schemes they run in Foxboro with so many looks and personnel packages. Who knows how Manning would fare in that environment.

 

My only point is that I give guys at that level the credit that had they "grown up" I'm each other's environment they both would still have thrived.

 

I add in Kelly because he essentially ran the offense in Buffalo, called his own plays, etc., and was pretty darn good at it.

[Caveman_Nick]

I've said for a few years now that Manning is that guy. He's the perfect storm - the throwback playcaller who understands the intracies of his O better than his coaches, but he's got all the tools and strength of the newer breed of QBs.

 

Put Bart Starr's head on Johnny U's body and you've got Manning. Give Montana Favre's arm and you've got Manning. There's never been a guy with literally no weaknesses at QB like Manning. Every aspect of his game is strong.

I agree...but again (and I hate to sound like a homer) can't you make the same statement about TB?

 

Fwiw, I am one of then few Pats fans I know that considers TB to be 1A to Manning's 1, but I think there's an argument for both sides.

[ChampSampson]

Andrew Luck sweepstakes?

[Winks]

Who's the greatest QB you've ever seen?

 

Terry Bradshaw followed closely by George Blanda (early edition = Houston Oilers).

[BeeR]

It's not to sell tickets. The Colts have sold out their season tickets.

 

Sadly, this news would not surprise me at this point. The Colts have always been very secretive about this kind of info. The way they drug out the Edgerrin James torn ACL. The way they drug out the Marvin Harrison injury. It took them forever to disclose the seriousness of it.

 

I spoke with someone with inside info as well. It is not good. I do not know if he had another surgery, but his return will not be any time soon.

Is this the same "inside info" that you used when assuring us that Manning would be fine earlier? Why don't you just admit you don't have a clue and be done with it? You could've made it to China w/the holes you've dug yourself on this topic.

 

I call BS.

Consider the source.

 

What he cannot grasp about a backup to Manning is it was never just a choice of invest a lot (in terms of draft picks or money for a FA) or basically nothing, as they have done to date. They could have taken a middle ground and gotten someone who at least had reasonable potential/talent. My point earlier is they didn't. Yeah they got lucky for all those years, and that's mostly all it was - now they appear poised to really pay the piper.

[Cunning Runt]

Not once in the draft have I wanted the Colts to spend a high pick on a QB.

 

Well good for you.

 

I am also a Colts fan and happen to disagree with you on this about as much as is humanly possible.They simply have put all their eggs in one basket for too long for my liking.

[Balzac]

Brady is a system QB. That's no knock on him. So was Montana. They were (are) absolutely the best at reading the way Ds aligned and which receiver the D would be forced to leave a with a larger window, and then they both put the ball in great spots where their guys could (can) rack up hugh yards afterwards.

 

There's no denegrating Brady by putting him in that category. He may be a system QB, but he's also one of the top system QBs in NFL history. He's still reading Ds and making the proper changes at the line - and he does that as well as anyone right now.

 

I don't think I'm following your definition of a system qb.

[Chief Dick]

I don't think I'm following your definition of a system qb.

 

 

I think most quarterbacks are products of their systems.

 

The difference is that Manning basically created his own system.

[CaptainHook]

Is this the same "inside info" that you used when assuring us that Manning would be fine earlier? Why don't you just admit you don't have a clue and be done with it? You could've made it to China w/the holes you've dug yourself on this topic.

 

I will type slowly so you can understand. But you're going to have to pay attention this time.

 

The last time I addressed this topic was before the Colts had signed Kerry Collins. Considering how clandestine the Colts are with injury information, I was basing my opinion on the Colts actions. At that time, they did not have anyone but Curtis Painter backing him up. I said that based on that, I felt Manning would be fine. BUT I ALSO SAID THAT IF THE COLTS WENT OUT AND SIGNED A LEGITIMATE BACK-UP IT WOULD MAKE ME RECONSIDER THE SEVERITY OF MANNING'S INJURY! It really is not that hard to comprehend if you are not a moran.

 

 

I also said that I did not fear the injury could be career-threatening due to Peyton's new contract. I still feel that way. BUT, If the Colts doctors cleared Manning before he signed that deal, and he ends up never playing another down, they should all be summarily fired and run out of town.

 

Go Ginsu yourself BeeR.

Edited September 8, 2011 by CaptainHook

[Balzac]

I think most quarterbacks are products of their systems.

 

The difference is that Manning basically created his own system.

 

Pretty hard to gauge with guys who we've never actually seen outside of their "systems" though, right? I don't think anyone can definitively say that a guy like Brady is a product of his system until we've seen him perform (or attempt to) outside of it.

 

I guess my confusion was where something like "it's no insult to Brady" was said above. Maybe I'm nuts but I think it's a huge kick in Brady's nads to refer to him as a "system qb" - I don't see how anyone could NOT see that as an insult. He's had way too much success and for too long of a period to disrespect him like that.

 

I'm sure this debate has been had 349 times here already, so no need to rehash - I just needed to get my 2 cents in.

[Jackass]

Pretty hard to gauge with guys who we've never actually seen outside of their "systems" though, right? I don't think anyone can definitively say that a guy like Brady is a product of his system until we've seen him perform (or attempt to) outside of it.

 

I guess my confusion was where something like "it's no insult to Brady" was said above. Maybe I'm nuts but I think it's a huge kick in Brady's nads to refer to him as a "system qb" - I don't see how anyone could NOT see that as an insult. He's had way too much success and for too long of a period to disrespect him like that.

 

I'm sure this debate has been had 349 times here already, so no need to rehash - I just needed to get my 2 cents in.

 

Brady would've been successful in any system. Did playing for Belichek help? Yeah, probably a bit. But that's the way it goes. Steve Young and Joe Montana maybe wouldn't have been quite as good if they went to different teams.