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Chavez

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My only remorse would have been that I didnt kill all 5 of the turds that mugged me. I am absolutely shocked that you bleeding hearts believe you would have "feelings" for somebody who attempted to rob you at gunpoint. As someone who has resorted to that sort of "self defense" in the past, let me asure you folks living in your ivory towers far from the streets, that you would have no remorse whatsoever and you would feel fortunate that you got the perps before they killed you. Unforunate that this idiot girl ran with the wrong crowd and engaged in serious violent crimes? Absolutely! Remorse that I had to kill her before she killed me? You f'n kidding me..

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(this was no screwdriver attack),

 

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Dont tell me you were one of those blind ass idiot liberals who thought Bernard Goetz was wrong for defending himself when he was surrounded by 6 black toughs on the subway wielding screwdrivers in threatening manner and decided to fight back...

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I'm not feeling sorry for anyone here. When you mess with the bull, you get the horns. However, I'm not going as far to pat the guy on the back for icing a couple of teenagers.

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Dont tell me you were one of those blind ass idiot liberals who thought Bernard Goetz was wrong for defending himself when he was surrounded by 6 black toughs on the subway wielding screwdrivers in  threatening manner and decided to fight back...

 

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It was four, they weren't wielding screwdrivers, and Goetz was/is a paranoid psychopath.

 

From the Bernard Goetz wikipedia entry:

 

In the early afternoon of December 22, 1984, four young black men, Barry Allen 19, Troy Canty 19, James Ramseur 18, and Darrell Cabey 19, boarded a downtown #2 express train purportedly on a mission to steal money from video arcade machines in Manhattan.

 

Goetz entered the same #2 train car at the 14th street station and sat down near the four young men. According to Goetz's statement to police, approximately ten seconds later Canty asked him, "How are you?" Goetz responded that he was "fine". According to Goetz, the four men gave signals to each other, and shortly thereafter Canty and Allen rose from their seats and went over to the left of Goetz, blocking Goetz off from the other passengers in the car. Canty then said to Goetz, "Give me five dollars." According to the young men's testimony, Canty was panhandling, although eyewitness testimony given at Goetz's criminal trial generally agreed that the four men were aggressive and threatening. Goetz told police that he thought from the smile on Canty's face that they wanted to "play with me," and he decided on a "pattern of fire" that he would use to shoot them. Goetz, pretending not to hear them, asked Canty, "What did you say?" Canty calmly repeated, "Give me five dollars." Goetz admitted to police that he "snapped" and that his intention at that point was to "murder them, to hurt them, to make them suffer as much as possible." At the criminal trial, Goetz's defense attorney, Barry Slotnick, claimed that this and other extreme statements by Goetz were the product of an overactive imagination.

 

After the second demand or request for money, Goetz rose from his seat, and from beneath his blue windbreaker he fast-drew his .38 caliber five-shot Smith & Wesson revolver and fired five shots with speed shooting. (Speed shooting is a very fast technique, primarily effective at close range, where the shooter initiates trigger pull prior to the sights being aligned on the target.) In media interviews, Goetz, who had prior firearms and target-shooting experience, described how he discharged all five rounds extraordinarily quickly within 1.5 to 1.6 seconds. The first hit Canty in the center of the chest; the second shot struck Allen in his back and came out his arm; the third shot hit the subway wall just in front of Cabey; the fourth shot hit Cabey in the left side, severing his spinal cord and rendering him paraplegic; the fifth shot went through Ramseur's arm and lodged itself in his left side. Goetz then immediately looked at the first two men to make sure they were "taken care of." Goetz then saw Cabey moving on the bench and confessed to approaching Cabey and saying, "You don't look too bad; here's another," and then attempted to shoot Cabey again in the stomach, with an empty gun. Cabey, who was briefly standing prior to the shooting, was sitting on the subway seat during all attempted shots. In his subsequent police statement, Goetz explained, "if I had had more [bullets], I would have shot them again, and again, and again." All four men survived, though Cabey was permanently paralyzed and suffered brain damage as a result of the bullet that severed his spine.[/b]

 

 

After the incident, rumors spread that Goetz was threatened with sharpened screwdrivers. This rumor was published as fact by some newspapers; however, neither Goetz nor the young men made any such claim. In fact, Goetz expressed a belief that none of the young men were armed during his subsequent statement to the police. Paramedics and police did find a total of four unsharpened screwdrivers on two of the men, which they explained were to be used to break into change boxes.

 

Edited by godtomsatan

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No doubt Goetz snapped. He went Dirty Harry on 4 guys who surrounded him on a subway that were demanding money with screwdrivers in their hands. They werent poor innocent victims of racism like you lefties love to always claim. They were threatening this nerd on the train and were trying to get money from him in a menacing way. They just picked the wrong nerd. There is also no doubt that these 4 nice young African Americans were trying to mug him. I am unclear what you and the other stupid ass liberals think these guys were doing.

 

edit: they were wielding screwdrivers you jack ass.."Paramedics and police did find a total of four unsharpened screwdrivers on two of the men",

Edited by spain

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I :D this guy. One of the biggest problems in this country (and many others) is the general willingness of the populace to play the victim.

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I might feel a pang of remorse, but I would remember that I was attacked and not allowed to flee.  They basically deserved what they got.

 

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I would feel horrible that I was FORCED to kill a little baby. but I would not feel any remorse for the dead mother.

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The act of taking another's person life must be an emotional issue and one that sparks some sense of remorse regardless how justified it was and even more so when there was an unborn child involved (though if she was 2 weeks pregnant I doubt she even knew, let alone him). I have never killed someone, hope I never have to but in a situation where five people are attacking you, including brandishing a shotgun, I would not blame him in the least if all five ended up dead. I would imagine that any of us in the same situation would react the same.

 

I think the difference of opinion here is that the ex-marine felt remorse for what he had to do and what happened, but not in particular for any of his attackers who were the cause of what happened. It is one thing to regret that the event happened and another to regret that a girl died because of her own actons.

 

I imagine he, as would most any of us, would prefer that it never happened. But regrettably it did.

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No doubt Goetz snapped.  He went Dirty Harry on 4 guys who surrounded him on a subway that were demanding money with screwdrivers in their hands.  They werent poor innocent victims of racism like you lefties love to always claim. They were threatening this nerd on the train and were trying to get money from him in a menacing way.  They just picked the wrong nerd.  There is also no doubt that these 4 nice young African Americans were trying to mug him.  I am unclear what you and the other stupid ass liberals think these guys were doing.

 

edit: they were wielding screwdrivers you jack ass.."Paramedics and police did find a total of four unsharpened screwdrivers on two of the men",

 

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Did you read what I posted or were the words too big?

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Did you read what I posted or were the words too big?

 

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Uh yes. 4 black guys surround a total stranger on the subway and demand money. They are found with screwdrivers in their possession that witnesses testified that they were wielding at the time of the mugging. Goetz was terrified of being mugged and went Rambo on their asses.

 

Help me understand: what do you think they poor innocent victims of were doing?

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(tell me you were adjusted in any way shape or form at that age)

 

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I was more than not adjusted. I was deranged. I turned 18 1/2 way through boot camp.

 

They are lucky dude didn't have a CHP.

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I am no bleeding heart liberal- but the reality is he acted in self-defense and in the heat of the crime ended up killing a teenage girl. I don't know about you, but I really do not think this needs to be applauded. It is a horrible incident, and he did what he needed to do to survive, but a Marine or any man should not be proud or glorified by killing a young girl.

 

It goes without saying that you would do whatever it took in that situation- I know I would of, but personally later on as a man I would be completely romorseful, saddened and somewhat embarrasssed that I killed a teenage girl.

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I am no bleeding heart liberal- but the reality is he acted in self-defense and in the heat of the crime ended up killing a teenage girl. I don't know about you, but I really do not think this needs to be applauded. It is a horrible incident, and he did what he needed to do to survive, but a Marine or any man should not be proud or glorified by killing a young girl.

 

It goes without saying that you would do whatever it took in that situation- I know I would of, but personally later on as a man I would be completely romorseful, saddened and somewhat embarrasssed that I killed a teenage girl.

 

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I would certainly feel remorseful about killing a young girl, but no embarrased.

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but a Marine or any man should not be proud or glorified by killing a young girl.

 

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She's closer to an animal than a young girl. Most likely he did the baby a favor.

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Just as there might be a big difference in disarming someone with a shotgun, then proceeding to stab a 17 yr old girl to death and put another person in critical condition.

 

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:D to cast judgment on the guy defending himself is pure bullchit, IMO. 5 people are coming at you...you know one of them has a shotgun, who knows what any of the others may or may not have. f*ck that, there was more than enough here to put any reasonable person into balls-out self-preservation kill mode. from what i see, he didn't do anything wrong, and he deserves the benefit of any doubt.

 

but that still doesn't mean he should feel all warm inside about taking another person's life, especially when that other person is a pregnant teenage girl.

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Put me in the same situation and I would react the same way, just as most of us would, chit I would probably snap and go on the offensive after I got the upper hand. The guy did what he had to do and he is alive today because of it. A girl is dead because of HER and her friends actions and they got what was coming to them. To even suggest that he was wrong is ridiculous, and I think to say that there would be no feeling of remorse after taking someones life is equally as ridiculous. I'm sure I would feel remorse if I took someones life even in self defense, unless maybe I was defending my children.

Edited by ChuckB

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Uh yes.  4 black guys surround a total stranger on the subway and demand money.  They are found with screwdrivers in their possession that witnesses testified that they were wielding at the time of the mugging. 

 

 

No, they were not.

 

Goetz was terrified of being mugged and went Rambo on their asses. 

 

Help me understand: what do you think they poor innocent victims of were doing?

 

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Apparently one of them was sitting down while being shot, and had Goetz walk up to him pointing the trigger saying "You don't look too bad; here's another".

Edited by godtomsatan

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:D  to cast judgment on the guy defending himself is pure bullchit, IMO. 

 

 

I'm not casting judgement, but I'm certainly not calling him a hero and waving the american flag either.

 

5 people are coming at you...you know one of them has a shotgun, who knows what any of the others may or may not have.  f*ck that, there was more than enough here to put any reasonable person into balls-out self-preservation kill mode.  from what i see, he didn't do anything wrong, and he deserves the benefit of any doubt.

 

but that still doesn't mean he should feel all warm inside about taking another person's life, especially when that other person is a pregnant teenage girl.

 

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That's all I'm saying....or more appropriately, rather than him felling all warm inside about, I don't feel all warm inside about it. Cold blooded-ness all around.

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maybe it's because of the work I do, but I think I'd be sick if I had to kill a kid, even if it meant my survival. I'm fairly certain I'd feel remorse, sadness, etc.

 

I certainly do not excuse the girl's behaviors, but I bet if a psychological autopsy were performed, I could explain them. Overall, this is a tragedy.

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every now and then, I agree with az.

 

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+1/2

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I don't feel like typing my story but I can tell you that if you have been on the wrong side of this you really wouldn't have much of a problem killing all five of them.

 

I have been on the wrong side once. I put a 17 year old boy in the hospital. The thing that I felt most remorseful about was that I had to go to court over this clown. He had about five of his friends try to intimidate me and I would have to think that for most people it would have worked. That kid is now twenty five years old and serving a life sentence for murder.

 

If I had it all to do over that kid never would have made it to court with me.

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I don't feel like typing my story but I can tell you that if you have been on the wrong side of this you really wouldn't have much of a problem killing all five of them.

 

I have been on the wrong side once.  I put a 17 year old boy in the hospital.  The thing that I felt most remorseful about was that I had to go to court over this clown.  He had about five of his friends try to intimidate me and I would have to think that for most people it would have worked. That kid is now twenty five years old and serving a life sentence for murder.

 

If I had it all to do over that kid never would have made it to court with me.

 

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You da man, Skippy. :D

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No remorse killing a pregnant woman?? wow

 

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:D I side with the Marine kill um all :D

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Y'all are some HARD HARD peeps. Gimme a break, like you would not have any remorse for killing a woman carrying a baby who was a teenager???

 

Some tough times out there, not saying the action isn't warranted, but you are a stone cold liar or killer if you honestly think you would not be remorseful.

 

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Well count me in as a stone cold killer because I ain't a liar and I would absolutely not be remorseful in the least.

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I don't feel like typing my story but I can tell you that if you have been on the wrong side of this you really wouldn't have much of a problem killing all five of them.

 

I have been on the wrong side once.  I put a 17 year old boy in the hospital.  The thing that I felt most remorseful about was that I had to go to court over this clown.  He had about five of his friends try to intimidate me and I would have to think that for most people it would have worked. That kid is now twenty five years old and serving a life sentence for murder.

 

If I had it all to do over that kid never would have made it to court with me.

 

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Some day I'd like to hear that story Skippy...

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