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Rockerbraves

LSU vs WHO?

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Last night it seem like most all the major networks were predicting a LSU vs Bama rematch. However Sunday morning it seems to me at least that LSU vs Oklahoma State matchup has gained alot more support.

 

Computers should have OK State ahead of Bama so it all boils down to the human voters who watched the Cowboys beat up on the Sooners. From what I have read prior to the games yesterday provided Ok State took care of business vs Ok it would require 35% of the voters to choose them over the Tide. However now that Virginia Tech is out of the picture that number drops to a more manageable 25% of the voters.

 

My thoughts are that enough voters will say maybe Bama is the 2nd best team in the nation however they did already have a shot and at HOME, so let's give dem Cowboys a crack.

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Seeing a non-traditional team play in the title game would be nice...hopefully OSU goes..

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both are deserving. Who knows how much of a role the OSU plane crash played in the loss to ISU............

 

I think Bama will get the nod in the BCS, but I would rather watch OSU/LSU

Edited by wildcat2334

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I'll be surprised if it's not Ok St. While Bama may be the 2nd best team in the country, they had their chance at home. I think the votes will go Ok St's way for this reason.

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I will certainly watch the big game either way but having seen the one match-up already it would be nice to see the other.

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I will certainly watch the big game either way but having seen the one match-up already it would be nice to see the other.

Yea, I'm pretty much here.

 

Even a playoff system of some kind would have skewed results and an imperfect system of deciding what 4, 8, 16 teams get in. With the current fracked up system, I'd like to see a different game. Although the hugh delay between games helps the defenses so I'd be surprised if Okie State could pull it off.

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It will be tough for OSU to get the nod, but their body of work is as good or better than BAMA's. The BIG 12 has some tough to beat teams and top to bottom is not that far behind the SEC.

 

The loss on the road to a 6-6 team will have to factor into many of the voter's minds. I do not think anyone expects another 9-6 thrilla, if Bama gets in, I would like to see OSU/LSU, but a rematch will be fun to watch as well.

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Does anyone really want to see a rematch? Let OSU do it. The Big12 has had a pretty good season, and OkieSt. had a bad weekend on the road in Ames. Stanford would be the other candidate, IMO, but I'm not sold on their body of work in relation to OSU. Either are better than 'bama.

 

Neither are deserving of the trophy over LSU though. Alabama, Arkansas, Oregon, Georgia, and West Virginia all in one season? Only one of those at home? This has been a very impressive season for the Tigers. I'm curious how this team will stack up all time with the rest of the BCS era.

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IMHO the only team in the country that I as a fan fear the Tigers losing to is Bama. Could OKS beat them? Sure they could they are a top quality team no doubt. I just feel that OSU winds up like all the rest. Get a little run in the 1st half and wind up losing big in the 2nd half.

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Miscarriage of justice. Basically, you guys snowballed me. Everything you said needed to happen for Okie State to get in, happened, and it still didn't happen. Based on an "eyeball" test, you could come to conclusion that Alabama is #2. However, based on EVERYTHING on the field, how in the world can this happen? Oklahoma State has a better resume in every way you want to look at it. This is worse than 2001.

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Miscarriage of justice. Basically, you guys snowballed me. Everything you said needed to happen for Okie State to get in, happened, and it still didn't happen. Based on an "eyeball" test, you could come to conclusion that Alabama is #2. However, based on EVERYTHING on the field, how in the world can this happen? Oklahoma State has a better resume in every way you want to look at it. This is worse than 2001.

 

Not sure how you were snowballed. If you look at that stats of the LSU / Bama game, Bama lead in every category, save the final score, only attained in overtime. LSU did not beat Bama, Bama beat themselves. So, after that loss, Bama only dropped only to #3.

 

Your team, on the other hand, lost in overtime to an unranked team. Please explain how that is comparable.

 

Early odds - I just checked have LSU +1, which is nothing since the game being in New Orleans is considered a home game for LSU. The commentator reporting that wrote that your team would have been an instant 10 point underdog.

 

Yes, the rematch is likely to be another defensive struggle - some football lovers appreciate that sort of game. I do. OSU v. Stanford will be an offensive blow out, equally fun to watch.

 

However, having said all of that, this year it would have been fun to have a small playoff. LSU plays Stanford, Bama plays OSU and the winners play each other. Wouldn't that have been great!

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Miscarriage of justice. Basically, you guys snowballed me. Everything you said needed to happen for Okie State to get in, happened, and it still didn't happen. Based on an "eyeball" test, you could come to conclusion that Alabama is #2. However, based on EVERYTHING on the field, how in the world can this happen? Oklahoma State has a better resume in every way you want to look at it. This is worse than 2001.

You are not the only one ticked off . Check this guy out :wacko:

 

http://youtu.be/WwX9CMCrw_U

Edited by Rockerbraves

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Miscarriage of justice. Basically, you guys snowballed me. Everything you said needed to happen for Okie State to get in, happened, and it still didn't happen. Based on an "eyeball" test, you could come to conclusion that Alabama is #2. However, based on EVERYTHING on the field, how in the world can this happen? Oklahoma State has a better resume in every way you want to look at it. This is worse than 2001.

 

yep, the more I think about it- it should be OSU playing based on more than just not wanting a rematch and a L to LSU in let's get real - not a good football game that should bolster anyone's resume. Not to mention, doesn't OSU get a bit of a break for playing ISU the DAY after they have that tragic plane crash?

 

a few numbers from SAGARIN...........numbers using his rankings fyi

 

..............top 10 wins....top 30 wins........SOS

 

Okie St ......2................6........................6

Bama..........1...............2.........................23

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Not sure how you were snowballed. If you look at that stats of the LSU / Bama game, Bama lead in every category, save the final score, only attained in overtime. LSU did not beat Bama, Bama beat themselves. So, after that loss, Bama only dropped only to #3.

 

Your team, on the other hand, lost in overtime to an unranked team. Please explain how that is comparable.

 

Early odds - I just checked have LSU +1, which is nothing since the game being in New Orleans is considered a home game for LSU. The commentator reporting that wrote that your team would have been an instant 10 point underdog.

 

Yes, the rematch is likely to be another defensive struggle - some football lovers appreciate that sort of game. I do. OSU v. Stanford will be an offensive blow out, equally fun to watch.

 

However, having said all of that, this year it would have been fun to have a small playoff. LSU plays Stanford, Bama plays OSU and the winners play each other. Wouldn't that have been great!

 

I prefer to look at it in a much simpler way.

 

Oklahoma State: More quality WINS, and actually won their conference

 

Alabama: Not as many quality wins, and finished 2nd in their division. The ONLY reason Alabama is in this game is because they were picked to be in this game back in August. NOTHING Alabama did on the field warrants them being in over Oklahoma State. All they can point to is a quality LOSS, which is an oxymoron. This is the biggest miscarriage of justice in BCS history. I guess the regular season is a "playoff" only if the team that ESPN and the rest of the media wants it to be.

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I won't be watching another SEC championship game. If the BCS wants a NATIONAL championship game, I'd tune it.

 

We can thank CBS and ESPN for pimping Bama/LSU and the GAME OF THE CENTURY

 

but 5 FG's hardly qualifies lol

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yep, the more I think about it- it should be OSU playing based on more than just not wanting a rematch and a L to LSU in let's get real - not a good football game that should bolster anyone's resume. Not to mention, doesn't OSU get a bit of a break for playing ISU the DAY after they have that tragic plane crash?

 

a few numbers from SAGARIN...........numbers using his rankings fyi

 

..............top 10 wins....top 30 wins........SOS

 

Okie St ......2................6........................6

Bama..........1...............2.........................23

 

Not based in reality. The SEC (see "On to Atlanta" thread) had a much tougher overall OOC schedule than the Big 12 (just look at the ranked teams the SEC played and beat OOC). How the computers fail to pick up on this is astonishing.

Edited by SEC=UGA

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Not based in reality. The SEC (see "On to Atlanta" thread) had a much tougher overall OOC schedule than the Big 12 (just look at the ranked teams the SEC played and beat OOC). How the computers fail to pick up on this is astonishing.

 

Really?

 

how about wins vs BCS top 25? that work for ya?

 

OSU - 8 KState, 12 Baylor, 14 OKL, 24 Texas

Bama - 6 Ark, 22 PSU

 

the big, bad SEC eas pretty fn mediocre 3-12.

 

Sagarin has the Big 12 over the SEC at #1 conference by a wide margin

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I prefer to look at it in a much simpler way.

 

Oklahoma State: More quality WINS, and actually won their conference

 

Alabama: Not as many quality wins, and finished 2nd in their division. The ONLY reason Alabama is in this game is because they were picked to be in this game back in August. NOTHING Alabama did on the field warrants them being in over Oklahoma State. All they can point to is a quality LOSS, which is an oxymoron. This is the biggest miscarriage of justice in BCS history. I guess the regular season is a "playoff" only if the team that ESPN and the rest of the media wants it to be.

This. How is the regular season a play-off? Bama lost the last time they played anyone good. What play-off works that way? What play-off rewards good losses?

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Really?

 

how about wins vs BCS top 25? that work for ya?

 

OSU - 8 KState, 12 Baylor, 14 OKL, 24 Texas

Bama - 6 Ark, 22 PSU

 

the big, bad SEC eas pretty fn mediocre 3-12.

 

Sagarin has the Big 12 over the SEC at #1 conference by a wide margin

 

And Sagarin is basing the in conference ratings on what? Lemme, help ya out... The Sagarin rankings begin the year based on the polls, the polls developed by humans... Arbitrary polls released prior to any games being played. Sagarin believes that after 8 games there is enough connectivity of teams played to cease using these ratings.... However, to get to his point the rankings have already been bastardized by the influence of the initial rankings set by humans.

 

So I ask... From where was this in conference strength/ranking derived. It was derived from humans saying at the beginning of the season the following:

Oklahoma is #1

Okie St. #8

A&M #9

Missou #21

TX #24

 

This weighting of those high ranked teams, before they hit the field mind you, weights the analysis in the favor of the Big 12 for the balance of the season.

 

You then have a game where #1 Oklahoma knocks off #5 FSU, lending more weight to the SOS of the conference. You pretty much enter league play, since the season is top loaded with weak teams, with the rankings much the same. Week 4 looks like this:

Oklahoma #1

Okie St. #6

A&M #8

Texas #18

Baylor #19 (because they beat TCU)

 

OK and Baylor are the only two teams that have played anyone thus far and the preseason weighting is holding, no losses for A&M, Okie St, Okie or Texas. THey start playing one another (not real occurence, for example) 8 plays 2 and wins, well 8 is good 2 is better... but 8 beat 2 so they must really be, say 5, but we know 2 is good so they are 6... and it goes on. The weights aren't realistic and the in conference strength becomes self fulfilling.

 

So, look outside of conference and see who they played... Which is what I did and the SEC played a much tougher OOC schedule.

Edited by SEC=UGA

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And Sagarin is basing the in conference ratings on what? Lemme, help ya out... The Sagarin rankings begin the year based on the polls, the polls developed by humans... Arbitrary polls released prior to any games being played. Sagarin believes that after 8 games there is enough connectivity of teams played to cease using these ratings.... However, to get to his point the rankings have already been bastardized by the influence of the initial rankings set by humans.

 

So I ask... From where was this in conference strength/ranking derived. It was derived from humans saying at the beginning of the season the following:

Oklahoma is #1

Okie St. #8

A&M #9

Missou #21

TX #24

 

This weighting of those high ranked teams, before they hit the field mind you, weights the analysis in the favor of the Big 12 for the balance of the season.

 

You then have a game where #1 Oklahoma knocks off #5 FSU, lending more weight to the SOS of the conference. You pretty much enter league play, since the season is top loaded with weak teams, with the rankings much the same. Week 4 looks like this:

Oklahoma #1

Okie St. #6

A&M #8

Texas #18

Baylor #19 (because they beat TCU)

 

OK and Baylor are the only two teams that have played anyone thus far and the preseason weighting is holding, no losses for A&M, Okie St, Okie or Texas. THey start playing one another (not real occurence, for example) 8 plays 2 and wins, well 8 is good 2 is better... but 8 beat 2 so they must really be, say 5, but we know 2 is good so they are 6... and it goes on. The weights aren't realistic and the in conference strength becomes self fulfilling.

 

So, look outside of conference and see who they played... Which is what I did and the SEC played a much tougher OOC schedule.

I'm not going to argue much of this, because both of us share the same "adoration" of computer rankings of conferences. That said, the SEC often benefits from the same thing you're referencing, getting more credit for their conference wins than they might deserve, simply because so many in their conference get the benefit of the doubt.

 

Honestly, it's why the whole mess is a crock. If you asked me, I'd guess that Bama is a better team. But I also know that's a pretty effing lame way to decide who should play for the title. It's one step less lame than just voting who the best team is.

 

Despite the reason why I think Bama is likely a better team, I want OSU in the game because, if the BCS isn't going to give me what I want, the least they can do is be consistent. And if they're going to feed me this crap about the regular season being a play-off, then make it an effing play-off. And what Bama did down the stretch to "earn" its way into the NC game resembles a play-off in no way what-so-ever.

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I'm not going to argue much of this, because both of us share the same "adoration" of computer rankings of conferences. That said, the SEC often benefits from the same thing you're referencing, getting more credit for their conference wins than they might deserve, simply because so many in their conference get the benefit of the doubt.

 

Honestly, it's why the whole mess is a crock. If you asked me, I'd guess that Bama is a better team. But I also know that's a pretty effing lame way to decide who should play for the title. It's one step less lame than just voting who the best team is.

 

Despite the reason why I think Bama is likely a better team, I want OSU in the game because, if the BCS isn't going to give me what I want, the least they can do is be consistent. And if they're going to feed me this crap about the regular season being a play-off, then make it an effing play-off. And what Bama did down the stretch to "earn" its way into the NC game resembles a play-off in no way what-so-ever.

 

I can't disagree with you. THis is the reason I look at who these teams played OOC this year, to get a clearer picture of what is going on relative to the rest of the conferences.

 

SEC teams went out of conference and played the following "good" teams:

Clemson (AU and USC) - 1-1

GT - 1-0

FSU - 0-1

Boise - 0-1

Penn St. - 1-0

WV - 1-0

A&M - 1-0

Oregon - 1-0

 

I look at this and say, okay, we took down the Big East Champ, Split with the ACC Champ, Beat a top 25 PSU team, Beat a Big 12 Team who was anked # 8 at the time (and beat them more solidly than did Okie St. the week before), beat a solid ACC team in tech and beat the PAC 12 Champ. We lost to a good Boise team, the ACC champ and a poor FSU team. In the final rankings 6 of these teams are in the top 25 and the others had respectable seasons. Of those 7 games against top 25 teams the SEC is 5-2.

 

The Big 12 OOC was comprised of a few good teams... Iowa, BYU, Ari. St., FSU, TCU, the U and Arkansas... How did this work out:

Beat Iowa

Beat BYU by 1

Lost to Ari St.

Beat FSU

Beat TCU

Beat the U

Lost to Arkansas

 

Of these teams 2 are in the top 25 at year end and you lost to one of them. So out of conference against top 25 teams, of which you played 2, the Big 12 is 1-1.

 

Now, you can say all you would like about how strong the Big 12 is, but where did they prove how big and bad they were? By playing one another in conference or by beating other good teams OOC?

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