Bier Meister Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 (edited) Young whomper, you are wrong here. Menudo is not a fisherman. He is just a Steeler homer who posts about his team all the time and gets a lot of people riled up about it. He's not fishing. I think you are misunderstanding the concept of being a fisherman. 1283057[/snapback] i read that the same way. I thought this was a post game discussion? Denver got outcoached from the get go. Roth, who was great, went after the rookie Foxworth all day. Smart move. Max protect really caused Denver's D trouble as they didn't get any pressure on the QB. i actually liked shanny's game plan (mostly).... stop the run and let the passing game beat you.... the problem i saw was soft coverage in the first half On the other hand, Pitt's front 3 got pressure on Plummer. How the hell does that happen? I think it would have at least been a closer game if Champ makes the interception on Pitt's first drive, but I don't think Denver would've won either way. i think we would have seen a different game if they get that one..... plummer being forced to throw is not what any brocno fan wants to see. Congrats to Pitt. they flat out earned it. absolutely... pitts truely deserves to be at the SB after knocking off 1,2, and 3 1283072[/snapback] Classy thread here... Anyway. Let me add a heartfelt congratulations to the Steelers... they beat us on both sides of the ball and deserved a win. I can't dislike anything they did. I wish I had a reason to complain, but I don't. They are a great team, and I can't imagine a more deserving team to go to the Superbowl. 3 road wins against the top 3 seeds? Wow. If I had to analyze what Denver's problems were: - Denver receivers dropped key passes. I remember Rod dropping one and Alexander dropping 2. hurt a little bit but not as much as the other points you make atomic - Defenders dropped 3 potential interceptions. The ball just bounced out of their hands... I know they aren't paid to catch the ball, but we've been interceptin' mofos all season long, and we really needed some turnovers. absolutely hugh! - We let up TEN 3rd and long plays. That was 10 opportunities to field a punt and take it back the other way... instead it seems like we gave up points on every drive in the first half. We COULD NOT cover Hines Ward on 3rd down... and it took us until the late 3rd to realize that we needed to adjust. TOO LATE! horrible.... seemed like den would have been better served with 3rd and short That's it. I don't think Jake did anything different than he has done all season. He was not at fault in my mind. We did a great job stopping the run and put the Steelers in plenty of holes on 3rd down. It was those 3rd downs that KILLED us. Ben and Hines really shined when the team needed them. 1283818[/snapback] no hate toward riki at all.... just think he overrates ben. only thing i have every really argued. Edited January 23, 2006 by Bier Meister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 i read that the same way. no hate toward riki at all.... just think he overrates ben. only thing i have every really argued. 1283921[/snapback] Lets make one thing clear about where I stand on Ben, because I think it gets blown way out of proportion sometimes. I think that Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Carson Palmer are clearly better QB's at this point in time than Roethlisberger. There are others that I see in the same grouping with Roethlsiberger. However, because of his age, I think he is on his way to great things, but I don't think he is there yet, no one could be after just 2 years. A win in two weeks though, would be a giant step towards greatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Pimp Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 However, because of his age, I think he is on his way to great things, but I don't think he is there yet, no one could be after just 2 years. 1283937[/snapback] Brady. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 Brady. 1283949[/snapback] Well, if Ben wins it, isn't he at the same place Brady was ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 (edited) Let me as you a few questions CEO, or any other Denver fans that feel inclined to answer: 1. Do you want Jake as your starting next year? 2. Do you think you would have had a chance to win the game with a better QB? 1283852[/snapback] 1. I think Jake did a great job this year. He really minimized his mistakes. I don't know what kind of leader he is... but he did a good job at the QB position. 2. That's a tough question. I think that what Denver needs for sure is more options at WR. Rod Smith is a great receiver, and Putz made all the catches he needed to at TE... but Ashley Lelie, Charlie Adams, and whoever else they put in there as the WR2 and WR3 were not adequate. I cringe everytime the ball is thrown to Lelie because he'll drop it more often than not. If we had 2 consistent WRs, we could have done a lot more in the 2nd half. It's tough to differentiate between what a better QB would do, and what a more talented WR core would do. I think it'd be easier to add some more vet WRs (who aren't about to retire, thank you very much Jerry Rice ). I was so distraught leaving Mile High last night that I actually thought "We would win it all next year if we got Owens". Edited January 23, 2006 by AtomicCEO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I think that Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Eli Manning and Carson Palmer are clearly better QB's at this point in time than Roethlisberger. 1283937[/snapback] Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 Fixed. 1283962[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I was so distraught leaving Mile High last night that I actually thought "We would win it all next year if we got Owens". 1283957[/snapback] Not a bad thought. I think he'll end up in your division. I'm leaning toward KC, but Denver makes sense for TO as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 (edited) Not a bad thought. I think he'll end up in your division. I'm leaning toward KC, but Denver makes sense for TO as well. 1283965[/snapback] TO will be b*tching and whining about Plummer after about 3 weeks. That would be classic, I'd love it. TO would have a fit on a team that almost had 2 1000 yard backs. Edited January 23, 2006 by Hugh 0ne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Not a bad thought. I think he'll end up in your division. I'm leaning toward KC, but Denver makes sense for TO as well. 1283965[/snapback] Let me clarify... I do NOT want Owens in Denver. Sure, we might go to the Superbowl next year... but in 2007 we'd be a shattered rag of a team... like Philly was this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdawg Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 TO will be b*tching and whining about Plummer after about 3 weeks. That would be classic, I'd love it. TO would have a fit on a team that almost had 2 1000 yard backs. 1283968[/snapback] TO as a blocking WR. Man, that would be priceless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Lets make one thing clear about where I stand on Ben, because I think it gets blown way out of proportion sometimes. I think that Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Carson Palmer are clearly better QB's at this point in time than Roethlisberger. There are others that I see in the same grouping with Roethlsiberger. However, because of his age, I think he is on his way to great things, but I don't think he is there yet, no one could be after just 2 years. A win in two weeks though, would be a giant step towards greatness. 1283937[/snapback] in the past i've seen you go way beyond these statements..... he is an average to good qb (call it about C+/B-). i still see him as a system guy. you have finally admitted that the running game and d carried him last year..... took you a long time to do so. yes.... he is taking steps.... he is efficient... but he is not great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Classy thread here... Anyway. Let me add a heartfelt congratulations to the Steelers... they beat us on both sides of the ball and deserved a win. I can't dislike anything they did. I wish I had a reason to complain, but I don't. They are a great team, and I can't imagine a more deserving team to go to the Superbowl. 3 road wins against the top 3 seeds? Wow. If I had to analyze what Denver's problems were: - Denver receivers dropped key passes. I remember Rod dropping one and Alexander dropping 2. - Defenders dropped 3 potential interceptions. The ball just bounced out of their hands... I know they aren't paid to catch the ball, but we've been interceptin' mofos all season long, and we really needed some turnovers. - We let up TEN 3rd and long plays. That was 10 opportunities to field a punt and take it back the other way... instead it seems like we gave up points on every drive in the first half. We COULD NOT cover Hines Ward on 3rd down... and it took us until the late 3rd to realize that we needed to adjust. TOO LATE! That's it. I don't think Jake did anything different than he has done all season. He was not at fault in my mind. We did a great job stopping the run and put the Steelers in plenty of holes on 3rd down. It was those 3rd downs that KILLED us. Ben and Hines really shined when the team needed them. 1283818[/snapback] what he said. the broncos defense got back on their heels in a bad way in the second quarter, and that basically sealed the game. i honestly didnt feel great about the game all week, as i thought most of the season that pittsburgh was a helluva team. i think i said last week coaching would be the difference, and that the broncos had an edge there. i feel like i was right on the first part, wrong on the second. the steelers offensive gameplan matched up against the broncos defensive gameplan perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 (edited) in the past i've seen you go way beyond these statements..... he is an average to good qb (call it about C+/B-). i still see him as a system guy. you have finally admitted that the running game and d carried him last year..... took you a long time to do so. yes.... he is taking steps.... he is efficient... but he is not great. 1283979[/snapback] Well, see you are still below where I'm at. I'd put Peyton, Brady, & Carson in the A- to A+ range and Ben at the B to B+ range. Roethlisberger has done everyting asked of him, and has rarely failed. It has been said over and over again that he can't put the team on his back and win it with the passing game. He proved that wrong in both of the last two games. I think proving that wrong in the 2 most important games of your life is quite impressive. I do think he is a great QB, just not as great as the 4 others that were mentioned. There is still room for improvement though. I guess a lot of it depends on what you want out of your QB. I want efficiency, and he was 5th in the NFL last year, and 3rd in the NFL this year in that department. Edited January 23, 2006 by Menudo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Well, see you are still below where I'm at. I'd put Peyton, Brady, & Carson in the A- to A+ range and Ben at the B to B+ range. Roethlisberger has done everyting asked of him, and has rarely failed. It has been said over and over again that he can't put the team on his back and win it with the passing game. He proved that wrong in both of the last two games. I think proving that wrong in the 2 most important games of your life is quite impressive. I do think he is a great QB, just not as great as the 4 others that were mentioned. There is still room for improvement though. 1283990[/snapback] You might as well give up on this Menudo. As Pats fans will tell you, it's an argument that will never end, and it's one that's not even worth having until he's got 10 years or so under his belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 You might as well give up on this Menudo. As Pats fans will tell you, it's an argument that will never end, and it's one that's not even worth having until he's got 10 years or so under his belt. 1283997[/snapback] You are probably right. As with all players, we will have more of a definiton on his career towards the end, rather than at the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 You might as well give up on this Menudo. 1283997[/snapback] Are you not yet familiar with menudo Hugh? I have no quarrels with menudo at all, but he does rival the two Billies (Bronco and Swerski) for pit bull-like qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 in the past i've seen you go way beyond these statements..... he is an average to good qb (call it about C+/B-). i still see him as a system guy. you have finally admitted that the running game and d carried him last year..... took you a long time to do so. yes.... he is taking steps.... he is efficient... but he is not great. 1283979[/snapback] i'd rate him higher than that. a system guy? pitt doesn't really have a great passing system. he doesn't have great weapons either....one very good WR in ward, and mediocrity after that. a pretty good young TE, and obviously a running game that keeps some pressure off of him. a good system to succeed, but not one that any moran could drop in and succeed in. if anything the "system" holds him back as far as being able to shine individually. it's a bit like elway under dan reeves in that respect. to me roth shows a lot of poise, an ability to make all the throws, and a propensity to play well during the crucial moments in a game. i'd rather have him than any of the other young QBs in the league except maybe palmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 You are probably right. As with all players, we will have more of a definiton on his career towards the end, rather than at the beginning. 1284001[/snapback] Especially when you're dealing with someone who is called a "system QB". Eventually that system is gone, and then you see what the QB produces without the system. Just like Brady. A big part of his system was gone this year, and he had to carry a lot more of the load, and as a result, put up some big numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) i'd rate him higher than that. a system guy? pitt doesn't really have a great passing system. he doesn't have great weapons either....one very good WR in ward, and mediocrity after that. a pretty good young TE, and obviously a running game that keeps some pressure off of him. a good system to succeed, but not one that any moran could drop in and succeed in. if anything the "system" holds him back as far as being able to shine individually. it's a bit like elway under dan reeves in that respect. to me roth shows a lot of poise, an ability to make all the throws, and a propensity to play well during the crucial moments in a game. i'd rather have him than any of the other young QBs in the league except maybe palmer. 1284018[/snapback] by system guy i specifically mean that he is a guy that benefited from the system that he is in. pitt has traditionally been a run first type of team... similar to brady the past few years with respect to the running game and defense. years that brady had his best numbers they didn't reach playoffs one year and missed the sb this year. pitt's system allows him to take fewer risks. i wouldn't argue that it holds him back, but it is to his advantage. he does a fine job.... doesn't turn it over often.... but i really don't think he can carry a team like brady finally did this year. riki... while i think he did well vs indy, i still don't think he did anything anyone else couldn't have done vs denver with the pass protection and soft coverage. edit: just for kicks i looked up his game log for the year: - 1 300 yd game (lost) - 6 games with 20 or fewer attempts (6-0) - 6 games with less than 200 yards (5-1) - he did not play in 4 games (2-2) - passed for 30 or more attemps 2 times (1-1) - defense allowed fewer than 17 pts 8 times (7-1) - defense allowed 10 or fewer pts 6 times (6-0) - defense allowed more than 20 pts 7 times (3-4) (ben was 3-3) Edited January 24, 2006 by Bier Meister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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