rajncajn Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 When/if you lose do you find that it's because you are not patient enough to wait for a good hand to play, are not aggressive enough with bluffs, cautious enough with good hands, all/some of the above or other? Me, I often get tired of waiting for a fair hand to play & end up blowing it trying to bluff a crappy hand. I consider myself a pretty good bluffer, but the best bluffs will always get beat by a good hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 Afraid to show your weaknesses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Are you talking about losing a particular hand, or having a losing session? Very different scenarios with very different answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) Are you talking about losing a particular hand, or having a losing session? Very different scenarios with very different answers. Either or, but was specifically talking about a hand. Usually the only time I lose a session is when I either have crappy cards or lose an all-in with a good hand. For example, played Texas hold em' the other night & lost two all-ins in a row. One a flush(lost to straight flush) & one a high full house(I was packing queens to his kings). Edited June 23, 2006 by rajncajn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 For me- I tend have a losing session when I get impatient and am getting in with less than premium hands. Although ring & tourney are 2 diff things, and I play different for each. Another big key, that I am geting better at, is letting hands go when you know you are a substantial dog, or beat. Too many times I have made that river call, knowing they had me. I am not a blind stealer, per se, until they get big enough for it to matter. A good rule of thumb for me is when I get down to 7xBB, or around bubble time of a tourney- then I mix it up alot more. Lately I have been playing mostly online, so bluffing is a bit tougher- you got watch patterns pretty close. Especially bc online players will get in with marginal hands. Such a great game, and you are always learning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I consider myself a pretty good bluffer, but the best bluffs will always get beat by a good hand. that's deep man ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 that's deep man ... I never said I was smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seattle LawDawg Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I never said I was smart. If you think there's a question about your play, get PokerTracker and confirm it. I'm on the worst cold streak I've ever had losing about $700 in the past 2 days. With the exception of one hand, I've gotten my money in with the best hands though. The cards just haven't been coming....or have been coming for opponents. It always turns around though and I'm still up on the week, but barely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Losing Hand - If I lose, and this is assuming taking a hand to the river and either calling or getting called, not just seeing a flop and not winning the pot, their are countless reasons I lose. One is simply I was up against a better hand. I had a good non-nuts hand and was priced into calling a bet, or had my bet called. Hands like say a queen high flush to an opponents king high flush. Now, if it was an instance where I had two of the suit and hit my flush, and my opponent only had one of the suit but a 4th came on the river, then it is my fault if I gave the free card or did not bet enough to make it mathematically incorrect for him to call. If I had bet enough to make it mathematically incorrect for him to call, but he called anyway and won the pot, so be it. In the long run that player will make me a lot of money. For example, a couple nights ago I was playing online, no-limit cash game. One player was seeign literally every flop, whether it was limped to him or raised to 5 or 6 times the BB. And he would call down with 2nd pair and hands like that. Unfortunately, he was hitting hands, like playing 82suited for a 5 times BB raise and he was the first caller (had one caller behind him) then calling an all-IN on the flop when he hit two clubs to my trips and rivered a club.... that had me take a hit... but, over the course of the next 45 minutes, he was still in every pot and I proceeded to take the $25 I lost on that hand back from him as well as $40 more. SO, while I lost that particular hand, I made the mathematically correct play, so I did not feel bad about losing the hand. Regarding not having the patience to wait for good hands, a good way to counter this is multitabling. You are seeing more hands, so you are getting more playable hands in the same time frame, which in turn makes it easier to toss the marginal hands. THis is real easy in the online limit games where playing straight forward ABC poker is usually good enough for a very solid win rate. Also, what I do when I am in the multi-table tournies that will alst fo a while is to open up a low-limit cash game on the side. THis helps to keep me from gettins antsy and playing a poor hand in the tourney that has a bigger payoff. By the time I reach the first break, I generally close down that cash game to focus on the tourney, as after an hour to an hour and a half, most of the donkeys are out and you will actually be at a table long enough with players that pay attention that you can make moves to set up later moves and get solid reads on players that you can use. That covers hands. Now for a losing session - Everyone has these. And it is generally not just becasue you got it all-in with a good hand and lost, it is a lot of factors... you were playing against tough opponents and missed bets you should have gained or paid off an extra bet you shouldn't have, even if you end up folding on the turn, etc. Or a bad run of cards where you basically play nothing, but the few times you do you are up against a monster. Or you play at less than optimum times.. maybe you are tired or have had a few beers etc. Just a few thoughts off the top of my brain. This is something that could easily be discussed for hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 If you think there's a question about your play, get PokerTracker and confirm it. Good info here.... of course, I have yet to reinstall it since reformatting my computer a few months ago. But, with it I found I was not a ssuccesful as I thought I would be with the pocket jacks through nines and with hands like AQ and AJ. All were winning hands for me (AQoffsuit a small loser), just not at a very high rate. I had about 20000 hands IIRC so, a fairly small sample size in the grand scheme of things but it was enough for me to make a few tweaks in my game, particularly in tournies where I have seen my results go way up by letting those marginal hands go early in a tourney and waiting to get my money in with a bigger edge. As Sklansky said, I believe in Tournament Poker for Advanced Players, possibly Theory of Poker, in tournaments, it is sometimes the correct play to fold a hand even if you are the favorite if you believe you are likely to be able to get in with an even bigger edge in the future. Why risk it all on a 55/45 shot when you may be able to get it all in on a 75/25 shot. In a cash game, you have to push all of those small edges or you will end up costing yourself too much money to make up for it by waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) I havent had time to read all this thread but thought I would tell you guys my bad beat story from last night. I am in Memphis on business and slipped down to Tunica for a quick Tournament. $150 buy in at Sams Town(They have actually upgraded their poker room from the dump it used to be and made it non-smoking). ~50 players. Everyone starts with $4000 chips. I play my normal conservative style staying out of alot of hands, but doubling up a couple times. Lost 1 big pot on a suck out full house after I had hit my flush. Lost another pot when I had trips and the other guy had a full house. But then I sucked out on a guy when I pushed all in with pocket 10's and the other guy had Sigfeid and Roy with rags on the flop. Caught my 10 on the river and saved my ass. Last hand and I am about the middle of the pack. I am in BB with 15 players left. One caller, and then the button goes all in. I look down to see pocket rockets. I go all in. The 1 caller folds leaving us heads up. Button turns over A 10 unsuited and I flip over my AA. I know I will money now since this will put me in the lead or close to it and we are getting close to final table. Anybody want to take a guess at the flop? yep, KQJ. Guy hit the nut straight and cracked by Aces. I couldnt do anything but sit there and stare at the board until they made me leave... Edited June 23, 2006 by spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Patience is key. As is position. BC offers very sage advice in his posts. I see spain is fervently typing as I type here... and he will no doubt offer excellent advice, as watching him take down a few recent tournies has taught me to play even tighter (patient) than I have in the past. It's all about timing... position... patience. You will spot the "fish" and eventually take his/her money. If you don't, well then that's the breaks... again, be patient on a grander scale and hope you get better cards next time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 When/if you lose do you find that it's because you are not patient enough to wait for a good hand to play, are not aggressive enough with bluffs, cautious enough with good hands, all/some of the above or other? Me, I often get tired of waiting for a fair hand to play & end up blowing it trying to bluff a crappy hand. I consider myself a pretty good bluffer, but the best bluffs will always get beat by a good hand. Patience is THE #1 reason that I am a wining poker player overall. Without it, I'd be below-average at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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