Gameday Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) I have two boys. The older one is in 2nd grade and is in his second year of scouting. The other boy is four. Last year my older boy was too young to do much of the work on his pinewood derby car by himself, but I spent a lot of time teaching him about safety and the basics of using tools. He pitched in whenever he could, but I ended up doing most of the work. His car won his division at the Pack race and he finished 3rd overall. He also went on to win his division at the District race. This year he did a lot more of the work and was involved in every step of the process. About the only thing he didn't do was cut his block on the table saw. But, he did use the scroll saw, bench mounted belt sander, drill press, and he did almost all the painting. We did a lot more research this year and learned about all kinds of speed tricks. We spent hours and hours discussing them and he made the final decision on the design. Anyhow, he blew everyone away at the Pack meet and won the overall title. It was especially sweet because the two boys he finished behind in the overall standings last year are brothers and that family has won the race for the last 5 years or so. The older brother crossed over to Boy Scouting and couldn't compete anymore. But, a few months ago he told me 'maybe your son can win once my younger brother crosses over. Until then, he doesn't have a chance.' Well, that younger brother finished second. But the real highlight of the day was watching my 4-year old race his car. He's a big Elmo fan so we made a car that looked just like 'ol Elmo. Elmo was absolutely the hit of the Derby and he drew a big audience. And Elmo was blazingly fast! He had to run in what's called the Open division (for Dads and siblings) but if he had been able to run in the main races he would have finished 3rd overall. Here are some pic of the cars. http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8783/1323250zm5.jpg http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4594/13232851qd.jpg http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1458/1323251ui0.jpg Edited January 30, 2007 by Gameday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Very cool. I did this when I was very young. Nice to have those memories with your young sons. Believe me, they will always remember these good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 That Elmo car is awsome! Nicely done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I really miss doing this stuff with my boy. I just can't get into the girl scout thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameday Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 Thanks for the nice comments, guys. The best thing about the whole derby was the time we spent together planning and making the car. We started in late Nov and just had the derby a week ago. Nearly every night all three of us were in the workshop doing one thing or another. The minute we were done with dinner they couldn't wait to dash on downstairs and get started. The day of the derby my older boy woke up at 5. I came downstairs about an hour later and he was so nervous and anxious it was hilarious. Before the race I had the talk with him about how to handle himself it he didn't win, but I forgot to have the talk about how to handle himself if he won. I was pretty proud of him when he was announced as the overall winner and walked right over, shook the hand of the kid who finished in 2nd, and congratulated him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Very cool GD. That's a nice story. Sounds like you are raising two fine young men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 We did a lot more research this year and learned about all kinds of speed tricks. We spent hours and hours discussing them and he made the final decision on the design.I remember those days. The common speed tricks that I remember being people swore worked where the flatest, thinest car usually won, always make sure you are as close to 5oz as possible with the weight as centered as possible, clean up the nails to remove any moulding remnants, and put some graphite on the wheels. My dad ran the Pine Wood Derby at the district level for several years. One year he decided to make a bunch of test cars to do some semi-scientific testing. He made various different shapes and sizes, shorter or longer then "regulation", various axle configurations, shaving wheels down real skinny or to a point, etc. Anything that he could think of. In the end it came out that it really didn't make a whole lot of difference on the shape or wheel configuration. The wind resistance was negligable at that speed on that short of a track and as long as you did something from the original block, that was enough. The two things that did make a noticeable difference was cleaning up the nail as well as the axle hole. Polishing them with ultra fine sand paper followed with polishing with graphite powder made the wheels spin very easy. That being said, the fastest time my dad ever saw while running the council level derby was put in by a kid who spent relatively little time on all those tricks. My dad asked him what his tricks were and he and his mom just looked puzzled and asked what he meant. They had just cut out a shape and hammered the nails into the car. They didn't really make sure they were straight or clean them up. On his car, only 3 wheels ever touched at one time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I remember when pinewood cars were made exclusively by the boys themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 On his car, only 3 wheels ever touched at one time... Actually, that kid of makes sense. 1 less wheel = 1/4 less friction than other cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameday Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 I remember when pinewood cars were made exclusively by the boys themselves. Until my boy joined scouting last year I never had any involvement in it so I'm not sure how it used to be. The way most of the Dads and scouts I know view it is that it's a cool project to do together, with the focus on teaching the kid and on spending time together. In his first year our focus was on safety. This year it was on the basics of using tools. Next year he's expected to do everything himself with the exception of using the table and band saws. The year after that I expect he'll be able to use even those tools. Since he won the whole thing this year I think next year I'll challenge him to come up with a very cool, complex design, and not focus so much on speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameday Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 Actually, that kid of makes sense. 1 less wheel = 1/4 less friction than other cars? Yes, that's right. Some of the other things we learned were: 1) as already mentioned, the most important thing is to have very smooth axles and extremely round wheels. The axles are made smooth by filiing, sanding, and then polishing. Also, the heads can be tapered to eliminate even more resistance. The wheels are made round by shaving or sanding them as they're mounted in a drill press or by using a simple hand lathe. Also, it helps to cone the hubs (where the wheel touches the car) to reduce friction, and to polish the bore (the hole that the axle runs through). As a side note, my boy did all the wheel and axle prep by himself. 2) you have to maximize the weight and have it as far back as practical without having the front-end lift up as it goes down the track. We used tungsten weights since tungsten is 3.2 times more dense than lead. 3) the fastest way to the end-line is a straight line (duh). But, what it means is that if you can keep the front from oscillating back and forth it's a huge advantage. We did that by aligning the car so that it veered into the center guide strip and 'rode' it all the way down the track. I know, I know, that seems ridiculous since that involves creating friction, but everything we found on the web showed that these 'rail riding' cars were winning everything. So, we did it, and it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Actually, that kid of makes sense. 1 less wheel = 1/4 less friction than other cars? It also means 2x the weight/friction on which ever wheel is opposite the one not touching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoopazz Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 (edited) Wow, those cars look alot different than when I was makin them (60's vintage ). But very cool GD, they'll always remember it. I won the thing in third or fourth grade with a car that I helped (watched) my dad build. Well I painted it at least. Edited January 31, 2007 by whoopazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 oldest boy took 2nd in tiger scouts this year... he did everything but cut it on the bandsaw... he told me after the races were all finished.... " next year you need to help me like the other dads." i said " what do you mean." he said " well all the other kids just painted theres and there dads did the rest." looks like ill be busy next year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 oldest boy took 2nd in tiger scouts this year... he did everything but cut it on the bandsaw... he told me after the races were all finished.... " next year you need to help me like the other dads." i said " what do you mean." he said " well all the other kids just painted theres and there dads did the rest." looks like ill be busy next year... Yup ... too many dads make the cars while the kids simply watch or worse yet too many dads make the cars without their sons even present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameday Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 Yup ... too many dads make the cars while the kids simply watch or worse yet too many dads make the cars without their sons even present. That's a shame and isn't what it's supposed to be about. That's why in the 3rd pic you can see two cars. We built the one in the background as a test and to understand the process. Then, when we built the one in the foreground my boy had an idea of how he was supposed to do things. I'll have to admit, I was pretty nervous when he was cutting out the middle of the car with a scroll saw, and there was some angst when he ran his finger tip into the belt sander, but otherwise it was pretty uneventful. As a side note, one of the coolest things we did was to run a workshop for our Pack. Many dads and their boys showed up and we went through the whole process. We had a slide show of pics of cool cars we had collected over the last year, handouts on the basic process, and gave out a participation gift (a interchangable screw driver to begin their own tool collection) that they absolutely loved. We even divulged every speed tip we had discovered. By the end of the workshop every boy had a completely prepped set of wheels and axles. I got calls for days afterwards from dads telling me what a great time they and their boy had. My son helped do demos and took a lot of pride in doing them. We'll be holding more of them next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Very cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 As a side note, one of the coolest things we did was to run a workshop for our Pack. Many dads and their boys showed up and we went through the whole process. We had a slide show of pics of cool cars we had collected over the last year, handouts on the basic process, and gave out a participation gift (a interchangable screw driver to begin their own tool collection) that they absolutely loved. We even divulged every speed tip we had discovered. By the end of the workshop every boy had a completely prepped set of wheels and axles. I got calls for days afterwards from dads telling me what a great time they and their boy had. My son helped do demos and took a lot of pride in doing them. We'll be holding more of them next year. this is what i plan to do when my boys are all in.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Awesome! I've had a blast making these cars with my kids the last few years. Even the girls get into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameday Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 (edited) Update: This past weekend the District Derby was held. The kids that win top places at their Pack race move on to compete in the District. I'm not sure how many Packs make up a District, but I suspect it approaches around 1,000 kids. At any rate, my older boy's car was a screamer and he won the overall top spot. He had a sheepish grin on his face when he went up to accept his trophy. His younger brother entered the Open division with his Elmo car and was easily the crowd favorite. Kids in the stands were changing "Elmo . . . Elmo". And Elmo didn't dissapoint. He ripped off faster times than his older brother's car. He, too, won a trophy. Here's a pic of the proud brothers. Check out the Elmo costume. This dude came ready for business. Edited March 12, 2007 by Gameday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 This will be a great memory for the boys to cherish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xMRogers Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 very cool - have a 21 month old daughter and 7 month old son and looking forward to such things - due to circumstances, i didn't have many experiences like this as a child, and have made it a goal to do as much of this kind of stuff in all facets as possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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