I Break into your house..

[untateve]

I propose a new temporary worker program that will match willing foreign workers with willing American employers, when no Americans can be found to fill the jobs. This program will offer legal status, as temporary workers, to the millions of undocumented men and women now employed in the United States, and to those in foreign countries who seek to participate in the program and have been offered employment here. This new system should be clear and efficient, so employers are able to find workers quickly and simply.

 

All who participate in the temporary worker program must have a job, or, if not living in the United States, a job offer. The legal status granted by this program will last three years and will be renewable -- but it will have an end. Participants who do not remain employed, who do not follow the rules of the program, or who break the law will not be eligible for continued participation and will be required to return to their home.

 

Under my proposal, employers have key responsibilities. Employers who extend job offers must first make every reasonable effort to find an American worker for the job at hand. Our government will develop a quick and simple system for employers to search for American workers. Employers must not hire undocumented aliens or temporary workers whose legal status has expired. They must report to the government the temporary workers they hire, and who leave their employ, so that we can keep track of people in the program, and better enforce immigration laws. There must be strong workplace enforcement with tough penalties for anyone, for any employer violating these laws.

 

Undocumented workers now here will be required to pay a one-time fee to register for the temporary worker program. Those who seek to join the program from abroad, and have complied with our immigration laws, will not have to pay any fee. All participants will be issued a temporary worker card that will allow them to travel back and forth between their home and the United States without fear of being denied re-entry into our country. (Applause.)

 

 

This proposal was made in January 2004. Any progress on this proposal? Any progress been attempted?

[Ursa Majoris]

This is what I was gonna drive at. The costs of labor would be forced to go up, meaning the cost of goods goes up, meaning we would need to make more to accomodate thehigher prices. Just a downward spiral.

 

So, is there an acceptable answer for enforcing the immigration laws without messing up the economy?

 

Sure there is. Have a legal immigration system, offering temporary or permanent immigration. It already exists at the top end with the H1-B system, allowing entrance to a limited number of company-sponsored workers who bring skills we don't have or don't have enough of. If these people lose their jobs for whatever reason, they're automatically deported within 10 days.

 

The exact same principle could apply at the bottom end. Companies should declare their need and the government should set the quotas based on that need. Companies also would have to show they cannot get the workers internally, exactly as is done with the H1-Bs. Visas should be issued based on the period the company needs the workers for, whether weeks, months or years and the number of available visas adjusted annually or as appropriate. We already do this at the low end with youth workers who staff places like fun fairs during summer.

 

Workers would be subject to the laws and have the same rights as citizens, as provided by the Constitution (which applies to everyone in the US, not just citizens).

 

All illegal immigrants should then be deported and those employing them sent to prison and a $100,000 fine levied for every instance.

[spain]

I have my own proposal. Lets bring all of our troops home that are stationed overseas. Let them protect our borders. Treat our border like a battle front. Shoot all wetbacks on site. That will effectively end our immigration problem.

 

Next question...

[Clubfoothead]

I'm not getting the argument for not requiring companies to at least pay the feredal minimum wage for every job they offer. Why would that drive up the costs of produce?

[Kid Cid]

I totally agree that fining the companies that hire illegals is the only deterrent that will work.

[untateve]

I'm not getting the argument for not requiring companies to at least pay the feredal minimum wage for every job they offer. Why would that drive up the costs of produce?

 

 

 

Because fruits/vegetables are often picked by illegal immigrants who are paid far below minimum wage and none of those payments are "on the books" so the employer does not have to pay tax/social security on those wages. If those jobs go to American citizens, then legally, the employee must be paid minimum wage and the employer has to pay taxes. Therefore, it's more expensive to gather the fruits/vegetables. That cost gets passed along to the consumer.

Edited February 14, 2007 by untateve

[Clubfoothead]

Because fruits/vegetables are often picked by illegal immigrants who are paid far below minimum wage and none of those payments are "on the books" so the employer does not have to pay tax/social security on those wages. If those jobs go to American citizens, then legally, the employee must be paid minimum wage and the employer has to pay taxes. Therefore, it's more expensive to gather the fruits/vegetables. That cost gets passed along to the consumer.

 

 

It's only more expensive to the consumer if the companies refuse to accept a reduction in their profitability correct?

[Ursa Majoris]

Because fruits/vegetables are often picked by illegal immigrants who are paid far below minimum wage and none of those payments are "on the books" so the employer does not have to pay tax/social security on those wages. If those jobs go to American citizens, then legally, the employee must be paid minimum wage and the employer has to pay taxes. Therefore, it's more expensive to gather the fruits/vegetables. That cost gets passed along to the consumer.

 

I've seen this patented Unta fishing trip before.

[isleseeya]

It is a difficult argument ..illegals provide a service getting paid far below minimum wage which helps keeps costs down to the consumer

 

Replacing them with americans who will be paid much higher will cause the costs to rise for consumers which ofcourse will effect many products which may not be bought because people either don't want or can not afford to pay

 

Ofcourse illegals create additional costs for healthcare , etc because they have no insurance which also effects us

 

Vicious circle and I am not sure their is a clear cut solution because in the end americans will suffer one way or the other

 

This argument can be extended to china ...people complain that everything is made in china ...but because it is made china so cheaply we can afford it ...if we decided to manufacture and produce even a fraction of items made in china here in th US for the most part they could not be affordable

 

We have become to reliant on non americans

 

I work in the export market and I can tell you we ship only raw materials out throughout the world while we import more and more finished goods each year

 

Not a pretty picture

[Clubfoothead]

I see how illegals maintain the profitability of the companies, not how they keep the price of produce down.

 

[Ursa Majoris]

I see how illegals maintain the profitability of the companies, not how they keep the price of produce down.

 

 

I think it's a specious argument. Companies simply have to set their price by the market. If their costs go up, so will the price - but only to what the market will tolerate, thus their profits will be limited by the two countervailing forces. The argument about needing illegals to pick fruit and veg or the price will go through the roof is nonsense.

[Clubfoothead]

I think it's a specious argument. Companies simply have to set their price by the market. If their costs go up, so will the price - but only to what the market will tolerate, thus their profits will be limited by the two countervailing forces. The argument about needing illegals to pick fruit and veg or the price will go through the roof is nonsense.

 

 

I think that's the case. I also think it would allow family farms to compete more readily with corporate ones, simply because in theory they require/desire/need, whatever, less profitability.

[Retrograde assault]

America will act when their so called guests wear out their welcome, if its not too late by then.

[untateve]

I think it's a specious argument. Companies simply have to set their price by the market. If their costs go up, so will the price - but only to what the market will tolerate, thus their profits will be limited by the two countervailing forces. The argument about needing illegals to pick fruit and veg or the price will go through the roof is nonsense.

 

 

 

Economics is not my strength. I'm like wiegie in that regard.

[alchico]

Why not take all the jobs that illegals are doing and give them to all the people on unemployment, welfare and all the other government programs that give FREE money to people for doing nothing. Then when the cost of goods goes up becuse of the increase in labor costs, we can offset it with the reduction in taxes since we won't have to support all these FREE money programs. Our paychecks will increase and we can now afford the higher prices. I know this isn't eloquently(sp) written but i think you get the gist of it.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

I have my own proposal. Lets bring all of our troops home that are stationed overseas. Let them protect our borders. Treat our border like a battle front. Shoot all wetbacks on site. That will effectively end our immigration problem.

 

Next question...

 

 

A far more effective method would be to litter the border with land mines.

[spain]

A far more effective method would be to litter the border with land mines.

 

Whatever it takes to defend our borders from invaders!

[spain]

Why not take all the jobs that illegals are doing and give them to all the people on unemployment, welfare and all the other government programs that give FREE money to people for doing nothing. Then when the cost of goods goes up becuse of the increase in labor costs, we can offset it with the reduction in taxes since we won't have to support all these FREE money programs. Our paychecks will increase and we can now afford the higher prices. I know this isn't eloquently(sp) written but i think you get the gist of it.

 

Oh uh! The liberals will certainly not want to hear this solution. Take people off of welfare and make them actually work for a living? That is anathema to everything the Democratic Party stands for.

[cre8tiff]

Why not take all the jobs that illegals are doing and give them to all the people on unemployment, welfare and all the other government programs that give FREE money to people for doing nothing. Then when the cost of goods goes up becuse of the increase in labor costs, we can offset it with the reduction in taxes since we won't have to support all these FREE money programs. Our paychecks will increase and we can now afford the higher prices. I know this isn't eloquently(sp) written but i think you get the gist of it.

 

 

I blame the Republicans.

 

Edited February 14, 2007 by cre8tiff

[spain]

I blame the Republicans.

 

 

Yes, right. The Dems are the party of welfare and more social programs. They dont deny that for a second. That is their claim to fame so dont deny your roots boy.

[cre8tiff]

Yes, right. The Dems are the party of welfare and more social programs. They dont deny that for a second. That is their claim to fame so dont deny your roots boy.

 

Hey man, we're in "Lola-land" here. Rebs will be Libs and Libs will be Repubs.

 

Its a mixed up muddled up shook up world.

 

Cept for Lola.

[spain]

Hey man, we're in "Lola-land" here. Rebs will be Libs and Libs will be Repubs.

 

Its a mixed up muddled up shook up world.

 

Cept for Lola.

 

True dat! I have long wondered why you libs didnt love W who apparently is a big bloated federal gobment advocate!

[cre8tiff]

True dat! I have long wondered why you libs didnt love W who apparently is a big bloated federal gobment advocate!

 

 

It's that whole war thing. We turned on Johnson, too. Comes from having too many free thinkers. I sometimes think trying to get the liberal vote is like herding cats.

[spain]

It's that whole war thing. We turned on Johnson, too. Comes from having too many free thinkers. I sometimes think trying to get the liberal vote is like herding cats.

 

Actually, its more like herding the wetodds onto the short bus and getting them to strap on their hockey helmets. But you were on the right track.

[cre8tiff]

Actually, its more like herding the wetodds onto the short bus and getting them to strap on their hockey helmets. But you were on the right track.

 

Clearly you have not herded weetods. They act a LOT more like Repubs; i.e. blindly following the leader while holding hands, sticking to the same plan despite common sense saying it is flawed & needing someone else to interpret what they are "really thinking".

Edited February 14, 2007 by cre8tiff