ChuckB Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 (edited) I'm lookin for a sub-compact 40 cal for carrying concealed and I'm deciding between two. So I'm lookin for some advice from our resident gun enthusiasts. The first one I'm thinkin about is the Springfield XD 40 sub compact. The two "salesman" I talked to liked it and one said he had one and enjoyed it, however they were the ones selling it. I talked to a couple of others and they said it was an OK gun but they would prefer a used higher end gun than that one. I've kinda decided to not go the used route so I'm stuck with certain models because of price. The second one I'm lookin at is the Glock 27. I know a lot of people like Glocks and say they're reliable and durable, but my concern for a Glock is comfort. I've held them both and they both feel OK but one thing about the glock is the grip is so short my pinky has no place to go. I've heard you could get an extension for it, or an extended magazine but I wouldn't want to compromise the "concealment" aspect of it. Ideally I would like to find a range that had both to rent and I could shoot them one after the other, but I'm sure that's pretty unlikely. The price difference is only $50 so that's not really a factor. Any input would be appreciated so I don't make an expensive mistake. TIA, Chuck Edited March 10, 2007 by ChuckB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I own a Glock 17 that I love but the shorter grip on the 27 means you would have to shoot one to see if it is an issue for you. Glocks are tremendous for being reliable and durable. They are often lighter weight as well because of the polymer frame. They are not the prettiest gun in the world but for self-defense and reliability it always gets very high marks which is why so many police departments and militaries all over the world use them. If this is a gun for concealment and self-defense, figure in both the weight and actual size of pistol you are looking at. A short barrel gun like that is not going to be super accurate whatever brand you go with, so reliability and comfort should matter most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSab Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Go with the Glock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckB Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 I own a Glock 17 that I love but the shorter grip on the 27 means you would have to shoot one to see if it is an issue for you. Glocks are tremendous for being reliable and durable. They are often lighter weight as well because of the polymer frame. They are not the prettiest gun in the world but for self-defense and reliability it always gets very high marks which is why so many police departments and militaries all over the world use them. If this is a gun for concealment and self-defense, figure in both the weight and actual size of pistol you are looking at. A short barrel gun like that is not going to be super accurate whatever brand you go with, so reliability and comfort should matter most. I have to say I'm leaning towards the Glock but I really would like to shoot it first, so again I would have to find a range that had one/ know someone who owns one in order to do that. When holding it it felt comfortable (as did the xd 40) but the no place for the pinky concerns me. I have read some things on the internet where people said they got used to that quickly. Also I was wondering about the extended magazines and such to do away with the super short grip. I think they make a +2 magazine that would extend it just enough to fix the short grip issue without effecting the concealment. I'm still unsure, but it seems like I'm getting a lot more positives about the Glock over the Springfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckB Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 Go with the Glock. Thanks Nick, I am leaning more and more that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil_gop_liars Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I would like to find a range that had both to rent and I could shoot them one after the other, but I'm sure that's pretty unlikely. What are you going to use this gun for? These are primarily self defense guns, your target gets more than 20 feet away from you...good luck. but they are great for drug deals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckB Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 What are you going to use this gun for? These are primarily self defense guns, your target gets more than 20 feet away from you...good luck. but they are great for drug deals... Completely for personal protection and concealment so this size is definitely what I want. Accuracy is not a factor for me for this purchase (within reason). I understand the loss of accuracy with the shorter barrels and so forth. The next one I buy will likely be a nice tactical gun or something like that but for now I'm just looking for the sub compact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Pistols, just like about everything else, are a matter of personal preference. You need to find one that you like that fills the role that you want it to. You can conceal just about any gun. Obviously, the smaller it is, the easier it is to conceal. However, the smaller it is, the harder it is to shoot. It ain't much fun to fire a subcompact pistol, particularly a .40. Weight is probably a bigger factor. Although you have, for some reason, pooh-poohed the idea, you should go to the range and rent a variety of guns. You are asking about DAO (double action only) pistols. However, for your purposes, you may want to consider a snub nose revolver. Simple and reliable. As far as polymer DAO pistols go, you probably want to select something from Glock, a Springfield XD or something from Kahr Arms. Each manufacturer features a variety of sizes in different calibers. I think that a 9 mm is just fine, although many people will differ. I'm thinking that, for the price range that you are in, a Kahr CW9 fits the bill. Rent one. Rent a Glock 27 and a Glock 23 (the compact .40). If you want something from Glock that it a little slimmer, try the singlestack 36 (which is a. 45 caliber). The Kahr PM series are light and really small, but more expensive. And try a snubnosed .38 while you at it. Fire tham all. Handguns are great because you can (and must) try before you buy. The biggest mistake that you can make is to buy a handgun without being familiar with it. And Neutron and some of the other 1911 boys will be by to tell you that a 1911 is the only way to go. Ignore them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckB Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 Pistols, just like about everything else, are a matter of personal preference. You need to find one that you like that fills the role that you want it to. You can conceal just about any gun. Obviously, the smaller it is, the easier it is to conceal. However, the smaller it is, the harder it is to shoot. It ain't much fun to fire a subcompact pistol, particularly a .40. Weight is probably a bigger factor. Although you have, for some reason, pooh-poohed the idea, you should go to the range and rent a variety of guns. You are asking about DAO (double action only) pistols. However, for your purposes, you may want to consider a snub nose revolver. Simple and reliable. As far as polymer DAO pistols go, you probably want to select something from Glock, a Springfield XD or something from Kahr Arms. Each manufacturer features a variety of sizes in different calibers. I think that a 9 mm is just fine, although many people will differ. I'm thinking that, for the price range that you are in, a Kahr CW9 fits the bill. Rent one. Rent a Glock 27 and a Glock 23 (the compact .40). If you want something from Glock that it a little slimmer, try the singlestack 36 (which is a. 45 caliber). The Kahr PM series are light and really small, but more expensive. And try a snubnosed .38 while you at it. Fire tham all. Handguns are great because you can (and must) try before you buy. The biggest mistake that you can make is to buy a handgun without being familiar with it. And Neutron and some of the other 1911 boys will be by to tell you that a 1911 is the only way to go. Ignore them. I did consider a S&W 38 snub nose hammerless, My gf stepfather said he'd sell me (practically new) but I want to go semi auto. I will be trying different ones out since I will not be buying for almost two months. I am pretty much a noob when it comes to guns and knew I could get some good info here. I didn't really poo poo the idea of trying them at the range I was just pointing out that finding a range that had the two I was lookin at was probably not to good. Believe me when I say I am not taking this decision lightly and have been and will continue to do some homework before I make a final decision. Tks for the input. Please let me know where I can mail a check for your professional advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Do you need a glock that is untraceable and with the serial numbers removed? Only used a couple times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Do you need a glock that is untraceable and with the serial numbers removed? Only used a couple times... Don't forget he's from Detroit. Those are available on every street corner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo20 Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 (edited) ChuckB, I carry an HK 40 compact both on and off duty. It's slightly larger then the Glock but very similar in shooting feel. I would recomend trying both. We (my department) tested both when switching over from our Baretta 9's 6 years ago and about 75% of the guys preferred the HK. I completely agree with Furd you must try different guns before you buy them. The 16 guys on my SWAT team carry probably 6 different variety of guns due to personal preference. If it feels right in your hand and when you shoot that sometimes matters more then the gun type itself. Good Luck Bro. BTW Furd what don't you like about 1911's? I find them super easy to shoot but have only shot them a few times. HK USP Compact Edited March 10, 2007 by Mojo20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Don't forget he's from Detroit. Those are available on every street corner That right. I heard they are offering a free pistol with every 3rd crack rock purchase.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Row Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Do you need a glock that is untraceable and with the serial numbers removed? Only used a couple times... You got pacmans pistol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Row Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Chuck B, is this going to be your primary carry? & Are you settled on .40 as a cal.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 You'll shoot your eye out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 As others have said - you really need to shoot the two models you are looking at. Ergonomics are important in such a decision and you'll usually end up going with what feels best. I don't think you can go wrong with the Glock or XD, they are both very solid choices for CC. I don't happen to like them because of their fat, double stack grip, but as Furd said, I'm a 1911 man all the way. Don't worry about the short grip on any pistol. You can get mag floor plates for almost any model that extend the grip with a little "pinky curl" to keep your mitt where it belongs during fire. I'm assuming you're familiar with the .40 cartridge. It's a snappy little bugger, especially out of a sub-compact. This is usually OK for CCW, but if you plan to shoot at the range much (and I think folks should always shoot their carry piece a bunch) you may not like a gun with that much snap to it. Once you decide on a gun and carry load, play with the spring weight until you find the right balance. Many guns with light, short slides are under-sprung and that increases the snappy recoil problem because the slide slams back too hard. Whatever your choice is, invest $150-200 in quality leather - both gun belt and holster. It makes all the difference in comfortable carry. Lou Alessi, Gary Brommeland and Milk Sparks are my favorites. I guess it doesn't matter much with a little girlie composit gun but when you pack a 5" steel 1911 that weighs 43 oz empty, good leather makes all the difference. When yer done messin' around with the little noise makers, come over to the school of John Moses Browning - SLD and I will make believers out of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 ChuckB, I carry an HK 40 compact both on and off duty. It's slightly larger then the Glock but very similar in shooting feel. I would recomend trying both. We (my department) tested both when switching over from our Baretta 9's 6 years ago and about 75% of the guys preferred the HK. I completely agree with Furd you must try different guns before you buy them. The 16 guys on my SWAT team carry probably 6 different variety of guns due to personal preference. If it feels right in your hand and when you shoot that sometimes matters more then the gun type itself. Good Luck Bro. BTW Furd what don't you like about 1911's? I find them super easy to shoot but have only shot them a few times. HK USP Compact HKs are great, but they are significantly more expensive than a Glock. I like 1911s plenty. I just like to bust on the 1911 snobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I just like to bust on the 1911 snobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 This is what I'm buying for CC.It's a .40 and very slim. Great gun. http://www.kahr.com/review_ap_0402.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckB Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 Chuck B, is this going to be your primary carry? & Are you settled on .40 as a cal.? Yes, and I'm looking at .40 cal based on talking to others. I want the stopping power but really don't want to go to a .45. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Yes, and I'm looking at .40 cal based on talking to others. I want the stopping power but really don't want to go to a .45. IMO, the whole "stopping power" argument is overblown. Well placed shots with proper ammunition is the key. 9 mms are easier to fire, which increases your accuracy. They have a higher capacity. 9mm ammo is pretty cheap. When you are renting those pistols, do a side by side - G26 v G27. If you're really concerned about "stopping power," get yourself a .45 and load it with 230gr hollowpoints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 HKs are great, but they are significantly more expensive than a Glock. I like 1911s plenty. I just like to bust on the 1911 snobs. My ears are burning and my trigger finger is itching! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 IMO, the whole "stopping power" argument is overblown. Well placed shots with proper ammunition is the key. 9 mms are easier to fire, which increases your accuracy. They have a higher capacity. 9mm ammo is pretty cheap. When you are renting those pistols, do a side by side - G26 v G27. If you're really concerned about "stopping power," get yourself a .45 and load it with 230gr hollowpoints. That's why I opted for the 9mm over the .40 Glock. Cheaper to shoot, slightly smaller and at close range for self-defense there is no difference between a 9mm and a .40. If I was getting rushed by some drug-crazed lunatic in my own home, he's going to get a lot more than one bullet anyway. If you expect to get into a shootout like a cop trying to shoot through windows and car doors, then the bigger bullet of the .40 makes sense (or the 10mm). But purely for a self-defense gun that would be used to protect you and yours in the unlikely event that something happened which called for deadly force, I just cannot see why anyone would need more than a 9mm which has less recoil in addition to the other benefits. There are a ton of people on the internet that argue the virtues of the two calibers and most probably come down on the side of the larger load but many of them are police/military who will have different needs and situations. A very small gun with a very big bang is all the harder to handle for some as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 If you're really concerned about "stopping power," get yourself a .45 and load it with 230gr hollowpoints. Pistol rounds are pretty marginal man-stoppers. Shot placement is nearly everything, but bigger wounds bleed more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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