Suggestions/Help needed

[TheGrunt]

Okay, so it's all well known that I am a Marine Corp Vet of Operation Iraqi Freedom, in which I was one of the first to cross the Iraqi border. Four years later this war is now debatable as many Demorats believe this was a wrong decision to go into Iraq, while many Republicans feel this was a right decision.

 

Before continuing I want to stress that this thread is NOT about politics and what YOU believe to be the right course of action in this war. This is more of a question of work-related ethics and how to deal with a boss that is very much against what I did.

 

So last Friday I was staying to work late because we've been having issues with getting our software to run consistently. So I was there to help find a solution. About five minutes before I wanted to leave the office my boss came up to me and began the conversation as such:

 

Boss: "So are you pissed off yet about what's going on?"

Me: "Well, yeah, it's a little frustrating we can't get this thing working consistently, but we're getting there."

 

Boss: "No, I'm talking about our administration and the Iraq war -- how f'ed up it is and how Bush should be impeached, imprisoned, etc.."

Me: "Oh..."

 

The next fifteen minutes was was one of the most awkward moments I've ever had at work, especially because of my relation to the discussion that began to take place. My boss wasn't just talking to me, he was yelling. And by yelling I mean at the top of his lungs screaming, and every other word was a swear-word. At one point of the conversation he asked this:

 

Boss: "Why are we in the Middle East in the first place? This was was a failure from start to finish, and everyone knew this would happen from the beginning, but why did we do it anyway?"

Me: "Well for starters, this war was executed flawlessly. The initial invasion went as planned, but I do agree with you that the long-term strategy is flawed. It's pretty obvious something went wrong wh--..."

 

Boss: "F**K that! That is complete bull-Sh!t and you know it! Everything about this war was poorly executed and showed us how our administration lied to us about every reason for which we invaded Iraq, and how our military can't get the job done!"

Me: "Well I disagree with you there on several different accounts. We did believe Iraq had WMD's or at least the means to create them, and besides, that is in no way the only reason we went into Iraq. There were other missions that our military had when going into Iraq."

Boss: "That is a F**king lie and G*d Dam**t you should be as pissed off as I am! We went in for oil, and because Bush wanted to prove to his daddy that he could get the guy who tried to assasinate him. Bush used his power for f**king selfish reasons! Al Qaeda didn't even exist in Iraq before we went in and f**ked everything up!"

 

The entire time the conversation was taking place I honestly had no idea how to respond, and for two very important reasons. For starters he is my boss. Do I argue with him or just take it and move on? And secondly, I was just trying to focus on work and getting everything ready for deployment to our biggest clients.

 

There was a lot more that was said during this whole ordeal, but I think you get the idea. How should have I responded to these accusations, and was this even right for my boss to be having this discussion with me? There's a place and a time for everything, but I just don't think this was ethically right... am I wrong, or how should have I delt with this?

[Ursa Majoris]

How should have I responded to these accusations, and was this even right for my boss to be having this discussion with me? There's a place and a time for everything, but I just don't think this was ethically right... am I wrong, or how should have I delt with this?

 

That's insane. Your boss should be canned on the spot. There is no place for politics at work, except in the mildest way. There is especially no place for it under the circumstances described here. As to how you react, the only advice I would have is to just try to change the subject. Don't get in an argument and for damn sure don't start shouting back.

[TheGrunt]

That's insane. Your boss should be canned on the spot. There is no place for politics at work, except in the mildest way. There is especially no place for it under the circumstances described here. As to how you react, the only advice I would have is to just try to change the subject. Don't get in an argument and for damn sure don't start shouting back.

 

I definitely didn't shout back. That would have only fueled a much larger debate. I was more trying to ease the situation a bit by trying to understand his point of view. It just took me off guard... I almost didn't even know what to say during the entire "conversation".

[Ursa Majoris]

I definitely didn't shout back. That would have only fueled a much larger debate. I was more trying to ease the situation a bit by trying to understand his point of view. It just took me off guard... I almost didn't even know what to say during the entire "conversation".

 

Perfectly understandable because whatever your politics, boss / subordinate relationships should never have politics inserted into them. I think you handled it well. Has anyone else commented on it? Was there anyone else in earshot?

[TheGrunt]

That's insane. Your boss should be canned on the spot. There is no place for politics at work, except in the mildest way. There is especially no place for it under the circumstances described here. As to how you react, the only advice I would have is to just try to change the subject. Don't get in an argument and for damn sure don't start shouting back.

 

Oh yeah.... he can't really be "fired" either because he is the founder and CEO of the company. If he went down, so does the company because it's a startup. I don't want him fired because I truly believe we are going to be a big-time corporation in the future. I suppose I'm looking for advice the next time this situation arises.

 

I could just tell him that I'm not interested in discussing this while at work, but he was just so fired up. I wanted to shut him down in every possible way, but that's obviously not the correct way to go about it.

[TheGrunt]

Perfectly understandable because whatever your politics, boss / subordinate relationships should never have politics inserted into them. I think you handled it well. Has anyone else commented on it? Was there anyone else in earshot?

 

There was one person still in the office, but he left quickly once things started heating up. He did try and offer help by stating that he likes Bush, and thinks he's doing a great job. It was probably more of a comment to help our boss understand that he might be alone with his over-the-edge thinking.

[whomper]

My boss is an aethiest stone cold liberal and hes 80 years old. He slams religion every chance he gets and also prints anti war articles and leaves them on our desks. Hes brutal with the religion and politics work chatter and hes the senior partner.

[Chavez]

Is he a pretty reasonable guy most days?

[Chavez]

It was probably more of a comment to help our boss understand that he might be alone with his over-the-edge thinking.

 

I don't think your boss is alone in his thinking; I just think he used his position to be a f*cking bully and ram his opinion in your face.

 

I asked if he was a reasonable man on most days, and if he is, I'd knock on the door and tell him that while you certainly respect (heck, if you really want to try to make him feel low, tell him you "risked your life for-") his right to his opinion on the situation, it made you feel very uncomfortable, you felt it was inappropriate, and you felt that a dissenting opinion may have a negative effect upon your continued employment there.

[TheGrunt]

Is he a pretty reasonable guy most days?

 

Well yeah, for the most part. I have nothing against him personally, but I do find it odd that he likes to vent his frustration about the war towards me. This has happened several times in the past, but not to this extent.

[TheGrunt]

I don't think your boss is alone in his thinking; I just think he used his position to be a f*cking bully and ram his opinion in your face.

 

I asked if he was a reasonable man on most days, and if he is, I'd knock on the door and tell him that while you certainly respect (heck, if you really want to try to make him feel low, tell him you "risked your life for-") his right to his opinion on the situation, it made you feel very uncomfortable, you felt it was inappropriate, and you felt that a dissenting opinion may have a negative effect upon your continued employment there.

 

I like your thinking here...

 

Should I send it in an email (he's usually out of the office on most days promoting our business to potential clients), or should I wait until I can talk to him about it in person?

[Chavez]

Failing reason, you could just reply "well, what the f*ck do you want ME to do about it?" when he gets in your face about Iraq next time.

 

Unless he's trying to recruit you to shoot W - which at this point would be the WORST thing to happen to the left - he really shouldn't expect you to do much.

 

Oh, and as an aside, when my cousin in the Army comes back, I generally don't get into that side of things; but he's made some comments that indicate that he's pretty much of the opinion our commander in chief couldn't command a tank out of a wet paper bag. I mainly just tell him I'd like him to come back with his ass intact.

[Chavez]

I like your thinking here...

 

Should I send it in an email (he's usually out of the office on most days promoting our business to potential clients), or should I wait until I can talk to him about it in person?

 

 

I prefer person-to-person contact myself, but that may be just because I'm too lazy to write letters.

[tonorator]

tell him that you respect his right to have strong opinions on the matter but that you would rather not debate the topic at work. invite him to go get a beer outside the office sometime for a lively political chat.

 

it becomes an ethical situation when it impacts your ability to do your job successfully and advance within the company. if you sense this or have direct evidence of it, then you have a bigger issue on your hands that you should address more seriously.

[TheGrunt]

Failing reason, you could just reply "well, what the f*ck do you want ME to do about it?" when he gets in your face about Iraq next time.

 

Unless he's trying to recruit you to shoot W - which at this point would be the WORST thing to happen to the left - he really shouldn't expect you to do much.

 

Oh, and as an aside, when my cousin in the Army comes back, I generally don't get into that side of things; but he's made some comments that indicate that he's pretty much of the opinion our commander in chief couldn't command a tank out of a wet paper bag. I mainly just tell him I'd like him to come back with his ass intact.

 

One of the questions I did ask him was what he would have done differently if he were President during 9/11. He responded with something along the lines of blowing the sh!t out of Afghanistan and Iran, but not sending any troops there. Just bombing them or something. I think at that point I decided he is just a crazy guy that simply doesn't like Bush.

 

And it's not to say he isn't right with certain points. I did try and explain to him that there are major flaws that our administration made with their long-term strategy for the war. I just felt like he wanted me to agree with him that what I did was wrong. And I don't think I'll ever say that what I did was wrong because of my direct relationship with the subject.

[cre8tiff]

Document this, so if the bastard ever tries to screw you, you got major ammunition on his ass for harboring a 'hostile work environment'. Look, I'm about a anti Iraq as they come but I would no more rail on one of my employees for thier views (or in your case, sticking your neck out for the rest of us), than I would grope the hot OA next door. This guy is an El Guapo and will eventually fugawie you. Document everything, save it.

 

 

 

The problem here is not one of dissenting views, it is he using a position of power to blast you for something totally unrelated to your job. It is shameful, ridiculous and uncalled for.

 

 

 

 

 

And keep your eyes open for another job. Anyone this stupid is going to go down in flames eventually.

Edited April 29, 2007 by cre8tiff

[Savage Beatings]

You need to have an immediate conversation with your HR representative! If he is bringing his politics into the work place in such an incontrollable manner AND he sees you as a political adversary you could very well be setting yourself up for a hell of a lot of trouble. Write down as much of the conversation as you can remember (verbatim if possible) and bring it to your HR rep ASAP.

[TheGrunt]

Document this, so if the bastard ever tries to screw you, you got major ammunition on his ass for harboring a 'hostile work environment'. Look, I'm about a anti Iraq as they come but I would no more rail on one of my employees for thier views (or in your case, sticking your neck out for the rest of us), than I would grope the hot OA next door. This guy is an El Guapo and will eventually fugawie you. Document everything, save it.

The problem here is not one of dissenting views, it is he using a position of power to blast you for something totally unrelated to your job. It is shameful, ridiculous and uncalled for.

And keep your eyes open for another job. Anyone this stupid is going to go down in flames eventually.

 

You need to have an immediate conversation with your HR representative! If he is bringing his politics into the work place in such an incontrollable manner AND he sees you as a political adversary you could very well be setting yourself up for a hell of a lot of trouble. Write down as much of the conversation as you can remember (verbatim if possible) and bring it to your HR rep ASAP.

 

I like where this is going. I'll write everything down (well, type it in MS word) and just save it for a 'rainy day', or when needed.

 

I do have another job already lined up just in case. I suppose I'm in a lucky situation with that because of my connections. For the time being I don't think I'll make a hugh stink about it simply because of where we're at with the business, but if things start going down hill for myself I'm pretty sure this could be placed under a harassment of some sort.

[nuke'em ttg]

Bring the saw to work....... set it on your desk...... point at his office......

[Savage Beatings]

I like where this is going. I'll write everything down (well, type it in MS word) and just save it for a 'rainy day', or when needed.

 

I do have another job already lined up just in case. I suppose I'm in a lucky situation with that because of my connections. For the time being I don't think I'll make a hugh stink about it simply because of where we're at with the business, but if things start going down hill for myself I'm pretty sure this could be placed under a harassment of some sort.

 

 

The thing is... you can have a completely confidential conversation with HR, adn ask them not to do anything about it, but file the conversation in case that rainy day comes. You need to take that one step (if nothing else) now so that it is a matter of record in case Howard Dean decides to can your ass a year from now because he heard you donated to a Republican candidate or something like that.

[Ursa Majoris]

The thing is... you can have a completely confidential conversation with HR, adn ask them not to do anything about it, but file the conversation in case that rainy day comes. You need to take that one step (if nothing else) now so that it is a matter of record in case Howard Dean decides to can your ass a year from now because he heard you donated to a Republican candidate or something like that.

 

Bear in mind this is the CEO and owner, not some manager.

[TheGrunt]

Bear in mind this is the CEO and owner, not some manager.

 

That, and I don't even think we have an HR manager yet. We've got about 20 people working with the company at this point. There is someone I can bring it up to, and I probably will. It also helps that there was someone there who heard the first part of the conversation. So if need be I can use him as a reference.

[spain]

The thing is... you can have a completely confidential conversation with HR, adn ask them not to do anything about it, but file the conversation in case that rainy day comes. You need to take that one step (if nothing else) now so that it is a matter of record in case Howard Dean decides to can your ass a year from now because he heard you donated to a Republican candidate or something like that.

 

If you take something to HR, they are obligated to do something about it. There are no "confidential conversations" with HR. I advise against using this remedy.

[Hugh B Tool]

First off dude sounds like a right winger

 

Secondly in his position with this company, his thoughts and process of showing them foolish as they may be really can't be contested unless you quit. Plain and simple, most places are right to work places. That said you can politely tell him one on one that your views vastly differ from his and you would feel much more comfortable not debating them at work. Also if he does ever do it again you may show him what you learned as a Jarhead, i.e. an Iraq necktie or something similar. Because you have just as much right to quit that bisnotch as he does canning you for serving our Country as you did, which again he should be thanking you for. Some people that have never learned the COC of the Military will never ever get it though. No matter which way they lean

[Savage Beatings]

Bear in mind this is the CEO and owner, not some manager.

 

 

That, and I don't even think we have an HR manager yet. We've got about 20 people working with the company at this point. There is someone I can bring it up to, and I probably will. It also helps that there was someone there who heard the first part of the conversation. So if need be I can use him as a reference.

 

 

Ahhhh yes, I see. That does change things a bit.

 

In that case I would highly suggest messing with him until he has a nervous breakdown (which it sounds like he is on the verge of as it is). Sign him up as a member of the RNC and the NRA. Get him a subscription to Rush Limbaugh's newsletter. Find a W in 04 bumper sticker and hid it in his desk. You get the idea.