Question about Poker etiquette.

[Sgt. Ryan]

2nd hand of the night, I land Pockets Aces. At the flop, I land another Ace to give me trips. I slow play, waiting to pounce. After the River dude raises half his stack, and I come over the top all in. MF calls and has a flush, and I never see it coming. 3 Spades are on the board, with me having the Ace in my hand, but the other in my hand is the Ace of hearts. Dude asks me if I have the Ace, I say Yep, turn it over thinking Ive just put him out, and then it hits me , why he was asking. he had Ks and 7s, and just took this pot, putting me out. Its 8:30, were at my house and Im out of the game. Needless to say, Im a lil pissed.

 

I sit a hand, then a buddy says buy back in at full price, but get half an original stack of chips and play for a while. 5 hrs later, its me and the guy that put me out going head to head, with my buddy giving him a ride home so he is dealing for us. I put my buddy out the hand before and take a 3-1 chip lead on this guy. He asks me if we can split the pot 50/50, but I have 3 times more chips, and I bought back in, so I have $100 invested, to his $50. I decline and he starts to run his mouth about how they let me back in, and I should be appreciative I got to continue to play etc.. etc... I dont know this dude, at all, as he is my buddies buddy, but he is clearly trying to steal half the prize. I say sorry, you put me out, and I want return the favor. Each hand he loses, he bitches more and more, until it finally gets to the point where I say, go all in blind, and Ill match until one of us is out. Didnt take long, one hand, where I hit trip 6s, and put him out. Its now 2:00 Am, and my whole family is asleep, and this dude is getting louder and louder saying its BS I was able to buy back in and it should have been his pot, blah blah blah/. I say oh well. Finally my buddy says lets leave and the 2 jet.

We have never let anyone buy back in before, but I hear its pretty common. We usually try and play 2 games a night, when we all get together, but tonight, no one wanted to raise the blinds, so one game takes all night. At no time was I going to give this guy half the pot, as he couldnt hit sh*t after my buddy was knocked out, and I was pushing him around at every turn.

 

So my question is Should I have made arrangements with this guy for a bigger cut of the prize, because I got to buy back in? Or was I correct saying, no.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Big Country]

You were fine saying no as everyone agreed to let you buy back in. Sounds like you were doing a pseudo tourney where everyone buys in for he same amount, but in tourneys blinds raise over time, whereas in cash games they do not.

 

Also, deal making is not that uncommon and you certainly could have negotiated a deal had you wanted to insure against this guy making a come back, maybe a 2/3 to 1/3 split or 75/25 depending on the chip count and how much of a win 25% comes out to.

 

In future, Iwould reccomend having the rules clearly stated ahead of time, including any rebuy rules and time frame for the raising of the blinds, etc.

[spain]

You were fine saying no as everyone agreed to let you buy back in. Sounds like you were doing a pseudo tourney where everyone buys in for he same amount, but in tourneys blinds raise over time, whereas in cash games they do not.

 

Also, deal making is not that uncommon and you certainly could have negotiated a deal had you wanted to insure against this guy making a come back, maybe a 2/3 to 1/3 split or 75/25 depending on the chip count and how much of a win 25% comes out to.

 

In future, Iwould reccomend having the rules clearly stated ahead of time, including any rebuy rules and time frame for the raising of the blinds, etc.

 

I agree with BC here. Chops are very common, even in tourneys held at casinos. If you were relatively even in chips, then you chop it 50-50. If you had a 3-1 lead over him, chop it 75-25. But those things are certainly negoiable. And if you dont want to chop, dont do it. Nothing ever obligates you to chop but is something most people are willing to do when it gets down to a couple players. Its your call. One caveat: You ALWAYS want to chop when you are in a tourney in Vegas and its down to you and 2 or 3 locals still left and they suggest a chop. If you dont then they will definitely gang up on you to ensure you are next out.

 

The guy agreed to let you re-buy AND take your additional money. It is a little disengenuous for him to come back later and complain about them letting you back in. If he didnt want to allow you to re-buy, he should have said it before you paid to get back in. It was just being a poor sport and I wouldnt ever invite him to a game at my house again. Sounds to be like sour grapes and I would have told him so, but I am not a big old softie like you are Sarge!

 

You must raise blinds in a tourney structure. Otherwise, you should have just played a cash game.

[Menudo]

2nd hand of the night, I land Pockets Aces. At the flop, I land another Ace to give me trips. I slow play, waiting to pounce. After the River dude raises half his stack, and I come over the top all in. MF calls and has a flush, and I never see it coming. 3 Spades are on the board, with me having the Ace in my hand, but the other in my hand is the Ace of hearts. Dude asks me if I have the Ace, I say Yep, turn it over thinking Ive just put him out, and then it hits me , why he was asking. he had Ks and 7s, and just took this pot, putting me out. Its 8:30, were at my house and Im out of the game. Needless to say, Im a lil pissed.

 

I sit a hand, then a buddy says buy back in at full price, but get half an original stack of chips and play for a while. 5 hrs later, its me and the guy that put me out going head to head, with my buddy giving him a ride home so he is dealing for us. I put my buddy out the hand before and take a 3-1 chip lead on this guy. He asks me if we can split the pot 50/50, but I have 3 times more chips, and I bought back in, so I have $100 invested, to his $50. I decline and he starts to run his mouth about how they let me back in, and I should be appreciative I got to continue to play etc.. etc... I dont know this dude, at all, as he is my buddies buddy, but he is clearly trying to steal half the prize. I say sorry, you put me out, and I want return the favor. Each hand he loses, he bitches more and more, until it finally gets to the point where I say, go all in blind, and Ill match until one of us is out. Didnt take long, one hand, where I hit trip 6s, and put him out. Its now 2:00 Am, and my whole family is asleep, and this dude is getting louder and louder saying its BS I was able to buy back in and it should have been his pot, blah blah blah/. I say oh well. Finally my buddy says lets leave and the 2 jet.

We have never let anyone buy back in before, but I hear its pretty common. We usually try and play 2 games a night, when we all get together, but tonight, no one wanted to raise the blinds, so one game takes all night. At no time was I going to give this guy half the pot, as he couldnt hit sh*t after my buddy was knocked out, and I was pushing him around at every turn.

 

So my question is Should I have made arrangements with this guy for a bigger cut of the prize, because I got to buy back in? Or was I correct saying, no.

 

 

He was being a crybaby. Props to you for remembering that you had a family sleeping upstairs & that he was friend of your buddies, and not going off on him. It had to be tempting. As was stated above, he sure was happy to take your re-buy money, and didn't complain when the group allowed you to buy back in. Then to suggest splitting the pot when you have a big lead, that is laughable. Why would you do that ?

 

You didn't do anything wrong here, in my opinion.

[TimC]

Borgata tourney last year and I offered a chop to the guy. He had me outchipped a bit (not much). He declined so I won outright. It's no big deal. It's not bad poker etiquette to turn down the deal.

 

Oh and re-buys cause alot of trouble at the home games we play. You'd better clearly state ahead of time if you will allow it or half will be pizzed. When we allow re-buys, it is only allowed one time but you do get a full stack of chips.

 

And raise blinds!! That is insane not to. I couldn't imagine playing a tourney without the blinds going up. It could last a whole weekend.

[Dr. Sacrebleu]

I think your story omits the part where your acting all pouty, and sniffling because you hosted the tourney and you're already out. And that is Sooo unfair. And what are you going to do nooooow? And maybe you'll have to call it an early night. and so on and so forth.

You guys have never allowed buying back in, and shazam out of nowhere, this game they do?

 

The rules were obviously bent in your favour early on. You should have been out, and that was one less person that everyone at that table needed to beat. As a result of this rule bending done to accomodate you as host I'm guessing, you were able to be in a position to win the whole thing.

Instead the thing ends up in a coin flip if I understand the end of the game correctly.

yeah, I'd be pissed if I was that guy.

[Sgt. Ryan]

I think your story omits the part where your acting all pouty, and sniffling because you hosted the tourney and you're already out. And that is Sooo unfair. And what are you going to do nooooow? And maybe you'll have to call it an early night. and so on and so forth.

You guys have never allowed buying back in, and shazam out of nowhere, this game they do?

 

The rules were obviously bent in your favour early on. You should have been out, and that was one less person that everyone at that table needed to beat. As a result of this rule bending done to accomodate you as host I'm guessing, you were able to be in a position to win the whole thing.

Instead the thing ends up in a coin flip if I understand the end of the game correctly.

yeah, I'd be pissed if I was that guy.

 

 

 

LMAO, No I was going to spend a lil time with the wife, watch a movie and well whatever comes next, until the second game of the night.

 

Actually my buddy called me this morning and apologized for his friend. Ive never played cards with this guy before, and really only played a hand full of times total with alot of this crew. They generally play cash games, so they dont raise the blinds. I usually play at my Dads card game once a month where we play a game in 2-3 hrs. But Ive been told they regularly have buy backs until 10 PM once, and its a full buy in at a half stack. The second game a night, they never let a buy back in. And this joker did the same thing about a month ago, only to lose to the same guy later that night, and he threw a fit then as well. Ive just never played with a buy back in, as we generally play 2 games a night, so what was the point. But these guys do, and everyone was like, yea let him back in. We'll take more of his money. And no one said anything when it didnt happen but this one joker. I agree we need to raise the blinds more often for sure. We started raising them every hour after 10 PM, but it didnt seem to be enough, as many were just waiting for cards, or getting out, which allowed me to steal the blinds for a while to pad my small stack, until I actually hit a boat, when a guy had 3 of a kind. That doubled my stack, then taking my buddy out an hour later, gave me the 3-1 advantage of teh joker.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Big Country]

I agree with BC here. Chops are very common, even in tourneys held at casinos. If you were relatively even in chips, then you chop it 50-50. If you had a 3-1 lead over him, chop it 75-25. But those things are certainly negoiable. And if you dont want to chop, dont do it. Nothing ever obligates you to chop but is something most people are willing to do when it gets down to a couple players.

 

 

Regarding your chop, while most certainly do that kind of chop, and if chips are approx. 50/50 it is a 50/50 split, what you want to do to be fair is calculate what you should get, if doing a chip chop, by first giving everyone the lowest remaining prize, then divvying up the rest by chip count, ensuring that no one gets more than first place money (in case there is a commanding chip lead). This is more important in multiway splits, not head to head splits though. Just something to think about next time you are down to a finl 3,4 or 5 or however many are left and they suggest a chop of some sort.

 

The last tourney I was in, we were down to 3 players, and I had approx. 60% of the chips in play. THe other two looked to be about even. When a chop was discussed, Isaid I would certainly make a deal, but that Iwould not do a stright 3-way split. THe first offer made to me had me make out pretty good so I accepted it quickly.

 

Another group I play with occassionally, we have 6 of us or so, and play a bunch of little $10 sit n go type tourneys, probably getting 4-5 in in a night. I hate the structure, and one of the players is a real little buddy (he's an , thinks he is good but isn't. His wife that sometimes plays is much better, though she is very passive), but it is usually good for a $40-50 win in a night, two of the guys are close friends from college and the others, other than the aforementioned pr!ck are a good group of people. With this group, whenever I make it to heads up, I offer a 50/50 chop regardless of chip count (unless I am up like 4 to 1 or something). The 4 times where I was behind when making this offer and had the chop denied I won outright.

[darin3]

Slightly off-topic but online poker is getting worse. I started my "real money" play on PokerStars and after months of getting rivered by the worst donkeys on the planet, I decided to stop playing... then found that I had $30 or so on Bodog. The play there was much tighter and I slowly built my roll up to well over $600. Well, after a few months of Bodog's "PokerStars-ification", I'm now about ready to call it quits.

 

People play with absolutely anything. Re-raising with drawing hands. And then talking chit like nobody's business. There is absolutely NO etiquette online. Zero integrity. I'm about done with it.

[wildcat2334]

Slightly off-topic but online poker is getting worse. I started my "real money" play on PokerStars and after months of getting rivered by the worst donkeys on the planet, I decided to stop playing... then found that I had $30 or so on Bodog. The play there was much tighter and I slowly built my roll up to well over $600. Well, after a few months of Bodog's "PokerStars-ification", I'm now about ready to call it quits.

 

People play with absolutely anything. Re-raising with drawing hands. And then talking chit like nobody's business. There is absolutely NO etiquette online. Zero integrity. I'm about done with it.

 

 

 

Hellmuth?? is that you. Cmon D3- you may get rivered once in a while- but the donks and fish are easy money if you tight up, play yer game and hammer em. If yer getting yer money in at the right spots, yer gonna take some tough losses- part of the game.

 

If yer game is solid you should welcome the donks............ I love these guys

[darin3]

Hellmuth?? is that you. Cmon D3- you may get rivered once in a while- but the donks and fish are easy money if you tight up, play yer game and hammer em. If yer getting yer money in at the right spots, yer gonna take some tough losses- part of the game.

 

If yer game is solid you should welcome the donks............ I love these guys

 

I think I might be TOO tight. And it's not your garden-variety donk I'm talking about here. Maybe it's just in the lower-limit games. I'm talking $25 buy-in, $.10/.25 games or $5 SnGs.

 

And it's not just "once in awhile". I had KK twice today. Lost both times to QQ. First time the flop brought not one but both remaining Qs. Next time, they were nice enough just to throw one Q out there on the flop. And those aren't the donk moves I'm talking about, really. I mean, QQ's a solid hand in SnG format and the guys got ultra-lucky. Not necessarily jawin' about that. But when someone calls an all-in and an over-the-top re-raise all-in with absolutely NO draws, just A high, and hits an ace on the river to beat QQ and KK (not mine), that's just sick.

[broncosn05]

I had $30. I built my roll up to well over $600. I'm about ready to call it quits.

 

I can see your point.

[SheikYerbuti]

2nd hand of the night, I land Pockets Aces. At the flop, I land another Ace to give me trips. I slow play, waiting to pounce. After the River dude raises half his stack, and I come over the top all in. MF calls and has a flush, and I never see it coming. 3 Spades are on the board, with me having the Ace in my hand, but the other in my hand is the Ace of hearts. Dude asks me if I have the Ace, I say Yep, turn it over thinking Ive just put him out, and then it hits me , why he was asking. he had Ks and 7s, and just took this pot, putting me out. Its 8:30, were at my house and Im out of the game. Needless to say, Im a lil pissed.

 

I sit a hand, then a buddy says buy back in at full price, but get half an original stack of chips and play for a while. 5 hrs later, its me and the guy that put me out going head to head, with my buddy giving him a ride home so he is dealing for us. I put my buddy out the hand before and take a 3-1 chip lead on this guy. He asks me if we can split the pot 50/50, but I have 3 times more chips, and I bought back in, so I have $100 invested, to his $50. I decline and he starts to run his mouth about how they let me back in, and I should be appreciative I got to continue to play etc.. etc... I dont know this dude, at all, as he is my buddies buddy, but he is clearly trying to steal half the prize. I say sorry, you put me out, and I want return the favor. Each hand he loses, he bitches more and more, until it finally gets to the point where I say, go all in blind, and Ill match until one of us is out. Didnt take long, one hand, where I hit trip 6s, and put him out. Its now 2:00 Am, and my whole family is asleep, and this dude is getting louder and louder saying its BS I was able to buy back in and it should have been his pot, blah blah blah/. I say oh well. Finally my buddy says lets leave and the 2 jet.

We have never let anyone buy back in before, but I hear its pretty common. We usually try and play 2 games a night, when we all get together, but tonight, no one wanted to raise the blinds, so one game takes all night. At no time was I going to give this guy half the pot, as he couldnt hit sh*t after my buddy was knocked out, and I was pushing him around at every turn.

 

So my question is Should I have made arrangements with this guy for a bigger cut of the prize, because I got to buy back in? Or was I correct saying, no.

 

 

I would have said to the guy "You had no problem with me re-buying at the time. If you want to make a deal based on the stack sizes, I'll listen. But 50/50 when I have you grossly outchipped is out of the question. And don't ever come into my home as a guest and raise your voice or bitch at me."

 

When his friend called and apologized, I'd said I'll only accept it out of his mouth. That chit don't fly in my neighborhood. The fact that you were allowed to re-buy has nothing to do with what transpires when you got heads up with the guy. I wouldn't invite the guy back again, ever.

[Menudo]

Slightly off-topic but online poker is getting worse. I started my "real money" play on PokerStars and after months of getting rivered by the worst donkeys on the planet, I decided to stop playing... then found that I had $30 or so on Bodog. The play there was much tighter and I slowly built my roll up to well over $600. Well, after a few months of Bodog's "PokerStars-ification", I'm now about ready to call it quits.

 

People play with absolutely anything. Re-raising with drawing hands. And then talking chit like nobody's business. There is absolutely NO etiquette online. Zero integrity. I'm about done with it.

 

 

Cash games or SNG's ???

 

I'm enjoying the SNG, but, I gave up the cash games for the same reason as you stated.

[darin3]

Cash games or SNG's ???

 

I'm enjoying the SNG, but, I gave up the cash games for the same reason as you stated.

 

Both really. I started playing the REAL small limit cash games and that was like playing keno. So I moved up one level and noticed a pretty significant difference in the play. Played on these tables (and the occasional SnG, which were equally as solid) for many months (say, 6-8 months?) and just recently noticed the play deteriorating.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I should have taken my big roll and moved up to $1/2 cash tables or $25+ SnGs and rode the wave.

 

I can only imagine how bad the play at PokerStars is nowadays.

 

Oh, and sorry to hijack your thread, Sarge. You shouldn't have slowplayed trip aces.

[Menudo]

Both really. I started playing the REAL small limit cash games and that was like playing keno. So I moved up one level and noticed a pretty significant difference in the play. Played on these tables (and the occasional SnG, which were equally as solid) for many months (say, 6-8 months?) and just recently noticed the play deteriorating.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I should have taken my big roll and moved up to $1/2 cash tables or $25+ SnGs and rode the wave.

 

I can only imagine how bad the play at PokerStars is nowadays.

 

Oh, and sorry to hijack your thread, Sarge. You shouldn't have slowplayed trip aces.

 

 

I've been playing SNG's at Bogdog in the $15-$40 range and have been enjoying it. The heads-up games have been easy money for me lately.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Menudo

[wildcat2334]

Both really. I started playing the REAL small limit cash games and that was like playing keno. So I moved up one level and noticed a pretty significant difference in the play. Played on these tables (and the occasional SnG, which were equally as solid) for many months (say, 6-8 months?) and just recently noticed the play deteriorating.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I should have taken my big roll and moved up to $1/2 cash tables or $25+ SnGs and rode the wave.

 

I can only imagine how bad the play at PokerStars is nowadays.

 

Oh, and sorry to hijack your thread, Sarge. You shouldn't have slowplayed trip aces.

 

 

 

Yeah- I think is real key to find a good comfort level. One where your confident, but not cocky, where there is at least semi-quality play, and one where you are comfortable $$-wise. I know when I play over my head a bit, I tighten up and play not to lose, get run over a bit.......and do not cash.

 

For me, I in the 25-55 SNG's depending on BR-

 

And Sarge, you hit a set of Aces, not trips

Edited June 17, 2007 by wildcat2334

[Big F'n Dave]

I'd have drug his ass to the dojo and kicked the sh*t out of him. But that's just me.

[Menudo]

I'm in the $10,000 guaranteed right now on Bogdog. It started with 463 players, and is down to 77. It was $22 to enter, and top prize is $2500. 45th gets you in the money. I'm just a bit over the $9019 average at $9375.... We'll see how it goes.

 

Anyway, I got a hand that I've never gotten before, and I'm not sure I've even seen it before. I had Cowboys, and two Kings came out on the flop. The best news, I got payed off on it. Checked, and one guy went all in with Jacks.

Edited June 17, 2007 by Menudo

[Menudo]

I'm in the $10,000 guaranteed right now on Bogdog. It started with 463 players, and is down to 77. It was $22 to enter, and top prize is $2500. 45th gets you in the money. I'm just a bit over the $9019 average at $9375.... We'll see how it goes.

 

Anyway, I got a hand that I've never gotten before, and I'm not sure I've even seen it before. I had Cowboys, and two Kings came out on the flop. The best news, I got payed off on it. Checked, and one guy went all in with Jacks.

 

 

Damn, placed 54th

 

I could have probably sat back, and made the money, but, I was getting low in chips, and from like 45th to 35th, you only win $40, so, I figured, I would try to get in better position for the money, that didn't work too well

[Big Country]

I was playing in the 4500 guaranteed . Third hand in, I flop a flush. Money gets all in from not one, but two other players. All three of us had flopped flush and I was second best... though I had runner runner shot at a str8 flush. I quadded up on the next hand but finally got knocked out in a classic two overs vs low pair confrontation where I did not hit.

[Sgt. Ryan]

 

Oh, and sorry to hijack your thread, Sarge. You shouldn't have slowplayed trip aces.

 

 

 

For some reason I have a reputation, of not playing unless I have a hand. If I dont slow play, and come over the top, I wasnt having any luck getting the table to play. Though I bluffed a few small hands just to keep them honest later, and that loosened up the table a bit when I played.

[Sgt. Ryan]

 

 

And Sarge, you hit a set of Aces, not trips

 

 

How do you figure. pocket aces, and one on the flop. I call that trips.

[spain]

For some reason I have a reputation, of not playing unless I have a hand. If I dont slow play, and come over the top, I wasnt having any luck getting the table to play. Though I bluffed a few small hands just to keep them honest later, and that loosened up the table a bit when I played.

 

If you have the reputation as a rock who want play hands unless you have a monster, then you will never get paid off. You need to get caught bluffing a few times so folks will know you arent just playing the nuts. If you never get caught bluffing, then you arent bluffing enough. And if people think you only play big hands, then you arent bluffing enough. Getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar from time to time is a GOOD thing!

[Menudo]

Though I'm enjoying the play on Bogdog, some of these idiots and their comments are laughable. Last night, I'm playing head to head with some guy ($30). Early in the game, I have a Str8 after the turn and there are two hearts on the board, I make a decent size bet of $400 (You start with $1,500), he ponders a bit and then calls. I notice that immediately AFTER the river is overturned (it is a 3rd heart), the guy writes in the chat window "C'mon heart !!!!" I've never seen someone do this, and I got immediately suspicious. He makes a big $500 bet, and I immediately raise, as I smell a rat. He folds, and writes "I'm so sick of playing with you f'n fish"