NOVA: Intelligent Design on Trial

[Hugh 0ne]

How do you completely change your entire lifestyle that quickly? And why would you want to? This concept hurts my head a lot more than trying to figure out how the world started.

[Jumpin Johnies]

So since Jesus claimed to be god that makes it okay to teach in schools?

 

I was raised Nichiren Daishonin Buddhist. You are correct that no Buddhist ever claimed to be god. No one goes to hell and thier are no sinners. It is, essentially, a moral guide that is meant to ease every day suffering. If you would like more info on the subject I would be happy to provide it.

Not once in the 17 pages of this thread have I even mentioned creationism being taught in public schools.

[Jumpin Johnies]

How do you completely change your entire lifestyle that quickly? And why would you want to? This concept hurts my head a lot more than trying to figure out how the world started.

Very easily and I'm glad I did. I'm much better off now then I ever have been.

[Hugh 0ne]

OK moneymakers, give JJ his password back. TIA.

[Hugh 0ne]

Very easily and I'm glad I did. I'm much better off now then I ever have been.

You didn't answer my second question.

[Jumpin Johnies]

You didn't answer my second question.

I wasn't living a good or healthy life anyone that knew me could atest to that.

[DemonKnight]

Not once in the 17 pages of this thread have I even mentioned creationism being taught in public schools.

 

You were responding to the statement that if Christianity is to be allowed in public schools that we should be teaching Buddhism, Judaeism (sp?) and Islam as well.

[Jumpin Johnies]

You were responding to the statement that if Christianity is to be allowed in public schools that we should be teaching Buddhism, Judaeism (sp?) and Islam as well.

I pointed out the differences of the religions.

[Ursa Majoris]

How do you completely change your entire lifestyle that quickly?

JJ has had a "Road to Damascus" moment - and it ain't a Bing'n'Bob movie.

[tbimm]

There are a couple of differences in Christianity over Budhism, Islam and Judaism. Muhammed, Budha, etc. never claimed to be God, Jesus did repeatedly. Islam, Judaism and Christianity are all Abrahamic religions so they all jive up until Ishmael and Isaac and that's where Islam spilts off, Judaism and Christianity agree after Malichi but befor Matthew. I think the three Abrahamic religions have the same creationist theory but I'm not sure. I don't know anything about Budhism, maybe Billay could enlighten us there.

I usually stay away from this type of thing but............

JJ it was my understanding that Jesus was the son of God Not God himself. This was taught to me by the hypocri er I mean Catholics and my step mom is a born again Christian and I seem to recall her calling him the son of God as well.?.?.?

[Jumpin Johnies]

So since Jesus claimed to be god that makes it okay to teach in schools?

 

I was raised Nichiren Daishonin Buddhist. You are correct that no Buddhist ever claimed to be god. No one goes to hell and thier are no sinners. It is, essentially, a moral guide that is meant to ease every day suffering. If you would like more info on the subject I would be happy to provide it.

It sounds interesting but I'm not here to slam it so I won't need any more info.

[Kid Cid]

Hmm, not sure about that. Post it if you find anything. In any case, I am just tryijng to point out that there is indeed evidence to work toward proving the Big Bang. And none to work toward proving Creationism.

Ok, I was off on that String Theory comment, but I did find an Awesome page explaining the Big Bang Theory. FWIW, they stipulate multiple times that the BBT is not about the origin of the universe, but rather its development with time. Well worth a look if this sort of thing interests you. Big Bang Theory

[whomper]

I usually stay away from this type of thing but............

JJ it was my understanding that Jesus was the son of God Not God himself. This was taught to me by the hypocri er I mean Catholics and my step mom is a born again Christian and I seem to recall her calling him the son of God as well.?.?.?

 

 

Its the trinity..Father son and holy spirit all wrapped in one

[Kid Cid]

It sounds interesting but I'm not here to slam it so I won't need any more info.

So you would only want info about another religion if you were going to slam it, not to enlighten yourself?

[whomper]

This could all be settled if you people followed Whompianity..I have never seen arguments over Whompianity..Whompostles are peaceful but carry a big stick

[tbimm]

Its the trinity..Father son and holy spirit all wrapped in one

No. This is not the way I understood it. The Father was God. The Son was Jesus.............. You know what? This is why I stay away from this stuff!

[whomper]

No. This is not the way I understood it. The Father was God. The Son was Jesus.............. You know what? This is why I stay away from this stuff!

 

 

Can you explain the Trinity?

 

 

Q: "What about the doctrine of the Trinity, the Holy Trinity?"

our A: "Trinity" is a term that is not found in the Bible but a word used to describe what is apparent about God in the Scriptures. The Bible clearly speaks of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit...and also clearly presents that there is only one God. Thus the term: "Tri" meaning three, and "Unity" meaning one, Tri+Unity = Trinity. It is a way of acknowledging what the Bible reveals to us about God, that God is yet three "Persons" who have the same essence of deity.

 

Some have tried to give human illustrations for the Trinity, such as H2O being water, ice and steam (all different forms, but all are H2O). Another illustration is an egg having a shell, egg yolk and egg white, but this egg illustration shows that there would be "parts" to God, which isn't the case.

 

God the Son (Jesus) is fully, completely God. God the Father is fully, completely God. And God the Holy Spirit is fully, completely God. Yet there is only one God. In our world, with our limited human experience, it's tough to understand the Trinity. But from the beginning we see God this way in Scripture. Notice the plural pronouns "us" and "our" in Genesis 1:26 -- Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

 

Though not a complete list, here is some other Scripture that shows God is one, in Trinity:

 

"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" (Deut. 6:4)

 

 

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." (Isa. 45:5)

 

 

There is no God but one. (1Cor. 8:4)

 

 

And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)

 

 

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19)

 

 

Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

 

 

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)

 

 

"He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)

 

 

If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Rom. 8:9)

 

 

"Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 1:20)

 

 

And the angel answered and said to her [Mary], "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35)

 

 

[Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him." (John 14:16-17, 23)

[tbimm]

Can you explain the Trinity?

Q: "What about the doctrine of the Trinity, the Holy Trinity?"

our A: "Trinity" is a term that is not found in the Bible but a word used to describe what is apparent about God in the Scriptures. The Bible clearly speaks of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit...and also clearly presents that there is only one God. Thus the term: "Tri" meaning three, and "Unity" meaning one, Tri+Unity = Trinity. It is a way of acknowledging what the Bible reveals to us about God, that God is yet three "Persons" who have the same essence of deity.

 

Some have tried to give human illustrations for the Trinity, such as H2O being water, ice and steam (all different forms, but all are H2O). Another illustration is an egg having a shell, egg yolk and egg white, but this egg illustration shows that there would be "parts" to God, which isn't the case.

 

God the Son (Jesus) is fully, completely God. God the Father is fully, completely God. And God the Holy Spirit is fully, completely God. Yet there is only one God. In our world, with our limited human experience, it's tough to understand the Trinity. But from the beginning we see God this way in Scripture. Notice the plural pronouns "us" and "our" in Genesis 1:26 -- Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

 

Though not a complete list, here is some other Scripture that shows God is one, in Trinity:

 

"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" (Deut. 6:4)

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." (Isa. 45:5)

There is no God but one. (1Cor. 8:4)

And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19)

Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)

"He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)

If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Rom. 8:9)

"Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 1:20)

And the angel answered and said to her [Mary], "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35)

[Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him." (John 14:16-17, 23)

Whomper, I mean no disrespect here but I didnt buy it then and still dont buy it. I have faith in a higher power but the Bible makes me question my faith more than strengthen it. I will continue reading this thread as much of what is being said here is very interesting to me. However I will not post in it anymore because I have no desire to try to make sense of it all!

[Caveman_Nick]

You see, we have evidence that the Big Bang occured such as the Hubble redshifting of galaxies which indicate they are moving away from a central point, radiometric dating of stars and an ever cooling ambient temprature of the universe. Pretty sound evidence, if you ask me. Wheres your evidence that life was started by some god. Just one piece of evidence is all I ask.

 

 

Er, I am not arguing for or against ID. I was just stating some similarities in where Big Bang was 100 years ago. Also note that I came right out and stated that ID is based on what is almost certainly unprovable assumption.

Edited November 21, 2007 by Caveman_Nick

[Savage Beatings]

I know that Steven Hawking is working on a theory of how the Universe could have spontaneously come into existance from nothing. I remember reading about this years ago (the same kind of language regarding bubbles as an analogy). He still hasn't gotten to the point where he can say how this would be possible, but he says he believes it, and is working on it.

 

I'm not a scientist but I love Cosmology and Theoretical Physics on a very amateur level. As a Christian, this does absolutely nothing to shake my faith in the existance of a good and loving God... just as the Theory of Evolution does nothing to shake my faith. I can accept the truth that is written in the very fabric of the Universe as being consistant with my faith, because God is the author of all truth. To ignore the data that we are given in uncovering the truth of our environment is an intellectual sin in my opinion (yes, there can be sins of reason).

 

Physics (and mathematics in particular) can be absolutely beautiful. Long complex equations show us the wonder of the world we live in... and in some cases that I've heard of, seeing that beauty inherent in mathematics is the very things that has sparked a faith in a Creator God in some scientists.

 

I think that in general some of you here are being kind of hard on JJ. I disagree with his Theology (and in truth, find more in common with Az, a non-believer with sound Theology) but he is being very respectful and trying his best to answer your tough questions.

 

Sometimes truth unfolds in stages... and until everything is fully revealed, we can make some pretty serious errors. The one thing that I can take from EVERYBODY in this thread, is a sincere and healthy desire for the truth. That's very encouraging!

[Jumpin Johnies]

I usually stay away from this type of thing but............

JJ it was my understanding that Jesus was the son of God Not God himself. This was taught to me by the hypocri er I mean Catholics and my step mom is a born again Christian and I seem to recall her calling him the son of God as well.?.?.?

He is the Son of God and He is also the second person of the Trinity and sits at the right hand of the Father. Jesus pre-existed before His birth, technically, His birth can be called the Incarnation, i.e., God taking on human flesh, “And the Word became flesh” (John 1:14). He is God's submissive equal and at many times claimed to be God. Most people remember that He said, "I Am" which is a claim of being Jehovah. He also said He is the Son of Man which the Jews understood correctly to mean that He was calling Himself the Messiah. The accusations against Jesus were blasphemy and treason. Blasphemy because He claimed to be God.

[Jumpin Johnies]

Can you explain the Trinity?

Q: "What about the doctrine of the Trinity, the Holy Trinity?"

our A: "Trinity" is a term that is not found in the Bible but a word used to describe what is apparent about God in the Scriptures. The Bible clearly speaks of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit...and also clearly presents that there is only one God. Thus the term: "Tri" meaning three, and "Unity" meaning one, Tri+Unity = Trinity. It is a way of acknowledging what the Bible reveals to us about God, that God is yet three "Persons" who have the same essence of deity.

 

Some have tried to give human illustrations for the Trinity, such as H2O being water, ice and steam (all different forms, but all are H2O). Another illustration is an egg having a shell, egg yolk and egg white, but this egg illustration shows that there would be "parts" to God, which isn't the case.

 

God the Son (Jesus) is fully, completely God. God the Father is fully, completely God. And God the Holy Spirit is fully, completely God. Yet there is only one God. In our world, with our limited human experience, it's tough to understand the Trinity. But from the beginning we see God this way in Scripture. Notice the plural pronouns "us" and "our" in Genesis 1:26 -- Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

 

Though not a complete list, here is some other Scripture that shows God is one, in Trinity:

 

"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" (Deut. 6:4)

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." (Isa. 45:5)

There is no God but one. (1Cor. 8:4)

And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19)

Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)

"He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)

If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Rom. 8:9)

"Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 1:20)

And the angel answered and said to her [Mary], "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35)

[Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him." (John 14:16-17, 23)

Thank you for saving me the trouble of digging this stuff up.

[Jumpin Johnies]

Whomper, I mean no disrespect here but I didnt buy it then and still dont buy it. I have faith in a higher power but the Bible makes me question my faith more than strengthen it. I will continue reading this thread as much of what is being said here is very interesting to me. However I will not post in it anymore because I have no desire to try to make sense of it all!

Have you ever read the Bible?

[Jumpin Johnies]

So you would only want info about another religion if you were going to slam it, not to enlighten yourself?

This thread is moving kind of fast and I can't read up on Budhism for the sake of it being an interesting philosophy.

[The Holy Roller]

I have enjoyed the evolution of this thread completely but I believe when JJ created it several days ago it had a purpose only known to JJ. As time has passed we are coming to a better understanding of what he meant. Sorta.

 

 

 

JJ, I am blessed to see that you have accepted Christ as Lord of your life. Thank God for His mercy and grace and for His help in all that you do. Congrats , Brother.

Edited November 21, 2007 by The Holy Roller