Hugh 0ne Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I don't think a thread will get locked down unless it becomes an insult-fest. DMD has been clear in his actions that insult-fests get locked down. Cork it, Sparky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 christianity started as a cult not a written religion Liberty University ... jerry was a swindler and his moral majority has been trying to ruin the founding fathers ideals for years .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Yes they did exist. Liberty University which is located here in Lynchburg had a dinosaur bone that it submitted for testing. They didn't identify the bone as that of a dinosaur so the experts couldn't classify it from a specific time period. The experts did their Carbon dating and came back with an answer of 12,000 years. it was a cow bone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 it was a cow bone You're the first person I've heard that claim from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Liberty University ... jerry was a swindler and his moral majority has been trying to ruin the founding fathers ideals for years .... Jerry Falwell plowed everything back into that school and Thomas Road Baptist Church. You can call him many things but swindler is not accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted November 21, 2007 Author Share Posted November 21, 2007 You're the first person I've heard that claim from. Yukon has many ideas only he has thought of...we blame the mushrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I'm not a scientist but I love Cosmology and Theoretical Physics on a very amateur level. As a Christian, this does absolutely nothing to shake my faith in the existance of a good and loving God... just as the Theory of Evolution does nothing to shake my faith. I can accept the truth that is written in the very fabric of the Universe as being consistant with my faith, because God is the author of all truth. To ignore the data that we are given in uncovering the truth of our environment is an intellectual sin in my opinion (yes, there can be sins of reason). Physics (and mathematics in particular) can be absolutely beautiful. Long complex equations show us the wonder of the world we live in... and in some cases that I've heard of, seeing that beauty inherent in mathematics is the very things that has sparked a faith in a Creator God in some scientists. I am a scientist who believes in evolution, but also agrees with everything you've said here. The guy who headed the Human Genome Project (can't recall his name) has also been very vocal about seeing God in science. Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Jerry Falwell plowed everything back into that school and Thomas Road Baptist Church. You can call him many things but swindler is not accurate. I visited the campus once... partied my ass off. I wouldnt have known it was a Christian school unless you told me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Actually it is evidence, but isn't there a debate surrounding String Theory that kinda deflates the Big Bang Theory? I'll have to go look that up. I saw a show recently that talked about parallel universes and how they are almost certain they exist. One theory that is floating around out there is that several parallel universes came in to sync (think like several sine waves) and the resulting collision was the big bang. Another interesting case observing evolution in action:: link Also, in that case, they talked about how those South America frogs weren't the menace they are in Australia because the predators in the same area evolved with them so they are immune to the frogs venom. On another note, just look at the flu for instance. Yep, when people start talking about different strains, that is the organism evolving to better be able to withstand the medicines being developed to fight it. On other example...African officials have noted that more and more elephants have smaller and smaller tusks. Why? Because the animals with the big tusks are being killed off ,which means they don't reproduce. So the animals left to pro-create pass on the smaller tusk gene, which means they will be less likely to be hunted. Extrapolate that out, and soon enough, elephants won't have much in the tusk department in a relatively short time (thanks to human intervention, I might add). There are all kinds of examples out there of evolution happening as we speak. It's nice to see that this thread hasn't degenerated to name calling and insults, and there's been a lengthy discussion/debate on a topic that is very important/emotional to many people. Nice to see the powers that be not locking down a religion thread. I've been thinking the same thing as I have kept up on this entire thread. Thanks to all of the contributors for keeping the insults out...I truly take something from these threads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I visited the campus once... partied my ass off. I wouldnt have known it was a Christian school unless you told me. Did you snort coke with Eric Green? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 No. This is not the way I understood it. The Father was God. The Son was Jesus.............. You know what? This is why I stay away from this stuff! that was very much the understanding of paul, the author of all three synoptic gospels (mark, matthew and luke), and major components of organized christianity throughout its history, even up to today. so it's not like you're alone in being baffled by the concept of the trinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Thanks to all of the contributors for keeping the insults out...I truly take something from these threads... No problem shorty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Did you snort coke with Eric Green? You know, I was more into herbals back then. I went with this chick who had friends who owned a house on a mountain right outside of town, I dont doubt they did blow. They had a huge house and didnt seem to have a job outside of selling bud. Dude drank Boones Farm cause he was allergic to beer. Older white couple. Ring any bells? One night we went to some little dance club in town. Place was a dive but I had a blast. Was hitting on this dudes girlfriend all night right in front of him. Chick was bangin. Ended up out in the parking lot alone with her... Then went back home with the chick that I came with. She wasnt hot but way cool. I hit it anyway... ahhh, I miss those days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17) i don't see how this passage argues for the trinity, in fact it is one of the primary texts the opponents of the text have always turned to, as it portrays a very human jesus, who the spirit of God enters into (implying it wasn't there beforehand). this is the text that arianism latches onto more than any other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I was just starting some similarities in where Big Bang was 100 years ago. this statement is not correct, at all. the big bang theory came about after a number of very specific scientific observations, most notably edwin hubble's observation that all galaxies in the universe are moving away from each other. then the observation of the cosmic background microwave radiation. these specific observations led directly to the development of the theory as the only real way to explain them. ID developed because the supreme court said you couldn't teach creationism in public schools. comparing the two is a bit kooky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 (edited) You know, I was more into herbals back then. I went with this chick who had friends who owned a house on a mountain right outside of town, I dont doubt they did blow. They had a huge house and didnt seem to have a job outside of selling bud. Dude drank Boones Farm cause he was allergic to beer. Older white couple. Ring any bells? One night we went to some little dance club in town. Place was a dive but I had a blast. Was hitting on this dudes girlfriend all night right in front of him. Chick was bangin. Ended up out in the parking lot alone with her... Then went back home with the chick that I came with. She wasnt hot but way cool. I hit it anyway... ahhh, I miss those days. Sounds like my parents house but without the Boones Farm and Josh Gordon, you probably to Cattle Annies or Millenium. Maybe even Trotters. Edited November 21, 2007 by Jumpin Johnies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 i don't see how this passage argues for the trinity, in fact it is one of the primary texts the opponents of the text have always turned to, as it portrays a very human jesus, who the spirit of God enters into (implying it wasn't there beforehand). this is the text that arianism latches onto more than any other. I had never heard of arianism thanks for the link. I know that Jesus needed to be Baptized to fulfill the prophecies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Sounds like my parents house but without the Boones Farm, you probably to Cattle Annies or Millenium. Maybe even Trotters. I think it was Millenium. This had to be like 7-8 years ago. I remember Trotters though. They had sick beer deals IIRC. Gotta love college towns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I don't think that anyone has said that spirituality and science can't co-exist. And JJ, I'm not trying to single you out here because I really do hope you find what you're looking for. It's just that you happen to be the most prominent example in this thread. IMO, the problem stems not from spirituality, but from belief in a concept without external proof. And before you jumping all lover me, I agree that this cuts both ways. Christianity is the worst of the offenders in this regard and JJ happened to provide a couple of examples earlier. His insistence that Jesus Christ is all the evidence needed to validate that the Old Testament was the complete an infallable word of God is a prime example. That's like me saying that I have this book and in it I say that the sky is orange and then later on in this book, I have a quote of someone else saying that the sky is orange. I then take the stance that because this guy in the book said it, it proves what was said earlier in the book, basically that the sky is orange. What this boils down to is very circular logic where because something later in the book validates something that came earlier in the book, it absolutely must be true. There is not one other subject, topic, or train of thought where you could get away with that, yet because of this (as yet otherwise unannounced) supreme being that supposedly inspired these writings, it must be so. We clearly live in a world where logic and observation and evidence can over time explain, validate, or at a very minimum, lead to the next set of questions. Yet we insist on we insist on holding fast to the belief that logic, observation, and evidence cannot possibly stand in the face of the divine. The logic is: because it's divine, that proves it's divine. It's a closed system that doesn't allow for questioning its validity. That is the core of the problem. Anything that can be held up as truth, has to be able to stand up to the scrutiny to prove it is the truth. Otherwise, it is nothing more than a statemnet or opinion. Christianity and Hinduism fail miserably at this, Islam only slightly less so. Buddhism and other Eastern derivitives or precursors are philosophical paths for individuals to take, they stand.up to this test far better. Zen is an oddly comforting state of denial that eventually falls into the same trap. Again, this is clearly my not so humble opinion on the matter. The end goal is as Bill and Ted once said, "Be good to each other." How you get there is up to you. And that my friends, brings us to the crux of the biscuit. Spreading your message to those willing to listen is not a bad thing. Forcing your message upon a captive audience (i.e. religion being taught in schools) is. (note: you knew I'd eventually get back to the topic at hand, thanx for reading this far) If Intelligent Design is a scientific theory that has been advanced, investigated, experiments designed to prove even small pieces of the theory, results gathered and reported to the world at large for inspection, investigation and review, and finally proven to hold some element of truth as defined by my above statements, then by all means it should be part of the public education cirriculum. Until such time as it has been held to contain some element of truth be these methods, then it is no more than religious dogma, without even and historical writings to back it up and as such, has no place in our public education system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Christianity and Hinduism fail miserably at this, Islam only slightly less so. Buddhism and other Eastern derivitives or precursors are philosophical paths for individuals to take, they stand.up to this test far better. Zen is an oddly comforting state of denial that eventually falls into the same trap. Again, this is clearly my not so humble opinion on the matter. The end goal is as Bill and Ted once said, "Be good to each other." How you get there is up to you. And that my friends, brings us to the crux of the biscuit. Spreading your message to those willing to listen is not a bad thing. Forcing your message upon a captive audience (i.e. religion being taught in schools) is. (note: you knew I'd eventually get back to the topic at hand, thanx for reading this far) If Intelligent Design is a scientific theory that has been advanced, investigated, experiments designed to prove even small pieces of the theory, results gathered and reported to the world at large for inspection, investigation and review, and finally proven to hold some element of truth as defined by my above statements, then by all means it should be part of the public education cirriculum. Until such time as it has been held to contain some element of truth be these methods, then it is no more than religious dogma, without even and historical writings to back it up and as such, has no place in our public education system. I guess faith is required for one to believe in creationism but faith has got to be there for anyone to believe in any theory, it just varies what you have faith in. I've put my faith in Jesus, some people think that's stupid. "Being good to each other "is also something they're told to do over at Footballguys (it's listed under their rules). Never once did I even mention teaching Creationism in public schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 ...find more in common with Az, a non-believer with sound Theology...uth. That's very encouraging! i am very much a believer. i believe in god. i believe that jesus uniquely among all men understood god, and that approaching jesus is the way to approaching god. i find fellowship and communion with all who strive toward that same goal, but i find consternation at the fact that so many are led down dogmatic paths created by other men in the name of jesus that in reality have little to do with jesus. if it ever seems i am confronting someone because of their faith in jesus, please know that i am actually confronting doctrines that, in my judgment, lead more people away from jesus than toward him. it is my own fault that this often comes across badly, as non-belief or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I think it was Millenium. This had to be like 7-8 years ago. I remember Trotters though. They had sick beer deals IIRC. Gotta love college towns. My dad started Trotter and owned the building up until a year ago. Did you have a bartender that looked like Chuck Norris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 IMO, the problem stems not from spirituality, but from belief in a concept without external proof. to put it slightly differently, the problem is that so many people think the "faith" that jesus and paul and abraham talked about has to do with believing with certainty concrete assertions without concrete evidence. in reality, faith has nothing to do with that. faith is the courage to stand face to face with the unknown. faith is trust and courage, not unsupported belief in particular assertions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 My dad started Trotter and owned the building up until a year ago. Did you have a bartender that looked like Chuck Norris? I cant remember. Does the name Collette Prenet ring a bell? Shes who I went down there with. Blonde short hair, kinda thick, awesome personality. She was a blast to hang out with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 i am very much a believer. I guess I've just always pictured you burning in hell for all eternity. Weird. Oh well, my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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