P Rivers....

[xMRogers]

One thing I don't get - why are all the analysts always sayign how good Cutler is - I simply don't see it. PUttig aside the fact that he seemingly came into a playoff team midway through last year and has done nothign but turn them into a mediocre squad record-wise, I don't see much on the field to tell me he's this great QB of the future. Few weeks ago Salisbury was commenting on all the young QB's and said Cutler is head and shoulders over Young and Leinart - really?

 

And everyoen on Denver should give back their paychecks from that game - they were down 3 scores midway through the third and had completely given up. That franchise has very quickly fallen apart.

[G.K.Trey]

It's not revisionist history. All I said was either team could have drafted him. Going into that draft there were experts saying each QB was the best in the draft. There was no clear cut number one, it was a matter of who you trusted.

 

You drafted Rivers because you thought he was the best. In the end he may be, but I don't think he is. That's all. Saying I'm trying to change history is over the top. Disagree all you want but I remember hearing all 3 projected as the top QB in that draft.

 

 

Every single expert had Manning as the clear #1 , saying otherwise , that is revisionist history.

[godtomsatan]

Who is Rivers?

 

Who is Cutler, and why do I have to hear about what a great QB he is every time someone talks about him?

[malta69]

I can tell you he didn't get LT the ball enough. Two more TDs and I win the championship & $525.

 

Are you saying that you DIDN'T enjoy that thrashing???

 

[Bronco Billy]

The Broncos early in the season said they were the class of the division, had the best overall talent and were not just success based on a couple of "superstars". They jawed big time before the gamer in Denver and got their a$$es handed to them in a pretty silk purse. Much of the talk bordered on the same guarantee crap in the Pitt/NE game. You don't see/hear about it because the AFC West does not get the same press that the other divisions do (NFC West is pretty ignored also).

 

I'll take any kind of link that you have that back up these assertions. Everyone I know here stated that SD had the best talent in the division - maybe in the league - and that the division went through SD.

[Bronco Billy]

One thing I don't get - why are all the analysts always sayign how good Cutler is - I simply don't see it. PUttig aside the fact that he seemingly came into a playoff team midway through last year and has done nothign but turn them into a mediocre squad record-wise, I don't see much on the field to tell me he's this great QB of the future. Few weeks ago Salisbury was commenting on all the young QB's and said Cutler is head and shoulders over Young and Leinart - really?

 

Then you aren't watching. Cutler can easily make all the throws required of a Pro Bowl QB. This may sound like homerism - but people here who know me know that I'm one of the Broncos' biggest critics - but once this kid learns the speed & nuances of the pro game he'll be a top 5 QB. He's tough, he's strong, he can gain time & yards with his feet, his arm is just a laser, and he can make all the touch throws also.

[Jackass]

Every single expert had Manning as the clear #1 , saying otherwise , that is revisionist history.

 

Different draft

[AtomicCEO]

Who is Cutler, and why do I have to hear about what a great QB he is every time someone talks about him?

 

Because I'd much rather have him than most of the other QBs in the NFL.

He makes hard throws into small spaces and throws a great long ball.

His passer rating is 10th in the league among QBs that have played all year.

 

I'm not calling him Joe Montana just yet, but I'd way rather have him than Phillip freaking Rivers.

[xMRogers]

Then you aren't watching. Cutler can easily make all the throws required of a Pro Bowl QB. This may sound like homerism - but people here who know me know that I'm one of the Broncos' biggest critics - but once this kid learns the speed & nuances of the pro game he'll be a top 5 QB. He's tough, he's strong, he can gain time & yards with his feet, his arm is just a laser, and he can make all the touch throws also.

 

I don't disagree that he can throw the ball well, but haven't seen the rest of it in any way start to take form. Now, I'll be honest, I'm not sure I can remember watching a game where they performed all that well as a team (mostly cause there haven't been that many since he took over), but the ones I've watched he's made some good throws but played QB somewhere between mediocre and pretty damn bad.

 

I'll say this - I'll be shocked if he is ever a top 5 QB in the league. Maybe I'll be proved wrong, and considering I saw something recently that had him number 8 right now, I probably will, but I just don't get it...especially since the were 7-4 in 2006 before he came in, and 8-12 since then. Know it's not his sole responsibility, but considering the before and after, just don't see why he doesn't take the heat some of these other young QB's take from the media.

[godtomsatan]

Here's Cutler's ranking as a QB each week according to a pretty basic 1/20 pass yds, 4/TD pass scoring.

 

Wk 1-4: #9, #22, #22, #15,

Wk 5-8: #18, BYE, #4, #11,

W,k 9-12: #31, #14, #15, #9,

Wk 13-16: #30, #2, #12, #27

 

Somewhat erratic still, and I'd consider him more polished than Leinart or Young by all means at this point. Definite room (and time) to grow, but I find it difficult to grade him out as more than a borderline QB1 for dynasty purposes.

[AtomicCEO]

I don't disagree that he can throw the ball well, but haven't seen the rest of it in any way start to take form. Now, I'll be honest, I'm not sure I can remember watching a game where they performed all that well as a team (mostly cause there haven't been that many since he took over), but the ones I've watched he's made some good throws but played QB somewhere between mediocre and pretty damn bad.

 

I'll say this - I'll be shocked if he is ever a top 5 QB in the league. Maybe I'll be proved wrong, and considering I saw something recently that had him number 8 right now, I probably will, but I just don't get it...especially since the were 7-4 in 2006 before he came in, and 8-12 since then. Know it's not his sole responsibility, but considering the before and after, just don't see why he doesn't take the heat some of these other young QB's take from the media.

 

As a guy who thought that Griese was a very crappy team leader, and who thought Jake Plummer should just FOAD, Cutler is a very large step in the right direction. He's not an idiot to the media, I remember more of his mistakes being caused by desperation at the end of games we were already going to lose than as game-losing mistakes.

 

The team is not great this year. And I can't blame Cutler for it.

 

He's not Peyton, but he's also not making a lot of stupid rookie mistakes. Some, but not a catastrophic amount. Looking around the league, Denver is very lucky to have a QB like Cutler. They could do a lot worse.

[Avernus]

I thought Rivers showed potential last year....

 

this year he looks like Alex smith when he had that mediocre (at best) year with Norv Turner (the rest of his years sucked)...but that is still bad...

[Menudo]

Well. he has the best record for first two full seasons as a starter, I think EVER was the graphic. Even better than Big Ben

 

Nope....

 

Roethlisberger's first two years:

 

23-3 Regular Season

5-1 Post-Season

 

28-4 Overall

 

 

River's first two years:

 

24-7 Regular Season

0-1 Post-Season

 

24-8 Overall

[Menudo]

Sorry if he didn't live up to your FF needs, but he does have his team sittling comfortably in the NUMBER THREE SEED in the AFC. GIven the Pats and the Colts as #1 and #2, is that really a crappy season?

 

That's OK... You don't have to answer that!

 

I'll answer it. Why do you keep bragging about the Chargers being the # 3 seed ? Also, I don't know if they are sitting comfortable, considering that they, as of now, are # 3 on a tie-breaker with the Steelers. They will likely hang onto it, but, I wouldn't say they are sitting comfortably. Back to my point....... many experts were picking the Chargers to be the best team in the league this year, coming off a 14-2 season a year ago. They have had a good year, but, thus far, haven't lived up to expectations. Neither Phillip Rivers or the Chargers are as good as you seem to think they are.......

 

P.S. Your continuing blind defense of your team. anytime someone says the slightest negative thing about them, ranks up there with other legendary 'homers' on this site.............

[Bronco Billy]

Champ Bailey fires back:

 

"And I don't really care for the guy, first of all," Bailey said of Rivers. "He's not a respectable guy right now because you talk too much trash and do this and that, but you're really not a great player in this league right now.

 

"You're surrounded by great players, but you're not a great player. I think he needs to understand where he stands in this league - where he stands on his team first and foremost."

 

"They've got a lot of classy guys on that team," Bailey said. "He kind of represents the classless guy on that team. He's definitely lost my respect."

 

And Rivers makes a weak denial:

 

Rivers said he used no profanity and was only reacting to his defense's play.

 

"We get a fourth-down stop, Wilhelm and Shaun Phillips, those guys been jawing the whole game with them," Rivers told The San Diego Union-Tribune. "We get a good stop. They are jawing. I'm not anywhere involved. I come out to congratulate them on the stop. I come out to congratulate them, and while I'm out there, yeah, there is some eye contact, but I'm saying 'atta baby' to Matt Wilhelm and Shaun Phillips. Sure, there is eye contact. Maybe there is a smirk. But I am speaking to my guys. That's all that was said.

 

"I don't think I have to defend myself. I used no profanity, I said nothing personal to anybody on that field. I was out there playing football. We're not in a tennis match. I understand some of the frustration is they've lost four in a row to this team. People don't like losing four in a row."

 

 

Decide for yourself if he's talking to his D guys or taunting Cutler. What a a tasty morsel to at least not get in front of this and instead denying he ever did anything.

[McBoog]

I liked this Article

 

Fine, the Broncos don't like Rivers. He keeps it between the lines, doesn't swear and makes no guarentees. Champ and other Broncos were running their talk well before the game. Anybody see the pre-game show?

 

Hey, you want to talk and make it mean solmething, score more that 6 points in two games. His team mates call him a FOOTBALL player and NOT a QB. They like him and who gives a crap about what you, non-Charger fans think. Other Chargers defended Rivers.

 

“What they've got to understand is Philip is a football player ,” tight end Antonio Gates said. “If they put him in that category it wouldn't be a problem. But since he's a quarterback, quarterbacks stereotypically shouldn't say or do or act a certain kind of way on the field.

 

 

He is 24-7 as a starter, 15-1 at home, and that is with two OC and HCs in those two years. He is not always consistent, but the team wins with him at QB. Last time I remember, the teams was going in the tank with Turner as HC independent of wo the QB was

 

The Chargers are not a well liked team by many. That is cool.

 

I have never called the SB shot. I go into the season wanting to know who the top five teams are. AT this point in the season, I do think they are a top 5 team. The whole thing is coming together at the right time. They will have to beat NE and Indy on the road assuming they win out and I am not sure they can do that. JAX? The only game that they SHOULD have won and did not was KC at home. The other teams they lost to turned out to be better than all expected. Losing on the road to playoff caliber teams (GB, NE, JAX, MIN) in retrospect is not as suprising as it was at the time. Going on the road to any of the finalists is not promising given this history.

 

Menudo thinks I'm all puffy about them right now (By the way, the Steelers have pretty much CHOAKED that #3 seed away... so don't pretend that it doesn't matter now! ) . Yeah, the number 3 seed is a great accomplishment considering how crappy they were playing in the first 1/4 of the season and after hiring the worst head coach since Harland Svare. They had been written off as the biggest disappointment of the season before it was half over. What about the Bears or Ravens? By the way. How does Rivers have more career starts than Ben. Ben has a post season advantage, but a little hard to evaluate based on one game with Snotty as his HC. All I remember is a graphic showing Ben, Phillip and Kurt Warner as three of the best.

 

You may not like it, but the Chargers are playing about as well as ANY team in the NFL right now and finally getting healthy as well. DO they go all the way? I don't know and guarantee nothing! Do they have a shot? He[[ yeah

[Menudo]

Menudo thinks I'm all puffy about them right now (By the way, the Steelers have pretty much CHOAKED that #3 seed away... so don't pretend that it doesn't matter now! ) . Yeah, the number 3 seed is a great accomplishment considering how crappy they were playing in the first 1/4 of the season and after hiring the worst head coach since Harland Svare. They had been written off as the biggest disappointment of the season before it was half over. What about the Bears or Ravens?

 

O.k., so the Steelers CHOAKED away the number 3 seed. I haven't been bragging about the Steelers at all this year, so, what is your point ? As a Steeler fan, I've grown used to successful season's, and no how to handle them..........

 

By the way. How does Rivers have more career starts than Ben. Ben has a post season advantage, but a little hard to evaluate based on one game with Snotty as his HC. All I remember is a graphic showing Ben, Phillip and Kurt Warner as three of the best.

 

You said that Rivers had the best record of any starter EVER in their first two seasons, even better than Big Ben I simply pointed out that your statement was simply not true. You make a good point though, Ben had to do it immediately his rookie year, and didn't get a year to learn under another QB. Therefore, his accomplishment is even more impressive.

 

Now, go back to your blind defense. I get the feeling that if someone came on here and said that a Charger, any Charger couldn't play Scrabble that well, you would be in here writing a book long post about how the media is spinning said Charger's inability to play Scrabble well, and that, in fact, said Charger was a phenomenal Scrabble player..............

Edited December 27, 2007 by Menudo

[McBoog]

O.k., so the Steelers CHOAKED away the number 3 seed. I haven't been bragging about the Steelers at all this year, so, what is your point ? As a Steeler fan, I've grown used to successful season's, and no how to handle them..........

You said that Rivers had the best record of any starter EVER in their first two seasons, even better than Big Ben I simply pointed out that your statement was simply not true. You make a good point though, Ben had to do it immediately his rookie year, and didn't get a year to learn under another QB. Therefore, his accomplishment is even more impressive.

 

Now, go back to your blind defense. I get the feeling that if someone came on here and said that a Charger, any Charger couldn't play Scrabble that well, you would be in here writing a book long post about how the media is spinning said Charger's inability to play Scrabble well, and that, in fact, said Charger was a phenomenal Scrabble player..............

 

Actually, I SAID I was refferring to a graphic, that with 5 year old twins and a two year old occupying my attention was talked about by the crew. All I know is he is up there.

 

As much as I love LT, I wouldn't put $ on him in a scrabble tournament.

 

I have LOVED the release of many "BAD GUY" players. Boston was one of the many. No Menudo, I am NOT you! I actually do see the "warts" my team has. Nice selective editing of my post though!

[Menudo]

Actually, I SAID I was refferring to a graphic, that with 5 year old twins and a two year old occupying my attention was talked about by the crew. All I know is he is up there.

 

As much as I love LT, I wouldn't put $ on him in a scrabble tournament.

 

I have LOVED the release of many "BAD GUY" players. Boston was one of the many. No Menudo, I am NOT you! I actually do see the "warts" my team has. Nice selective editing of my post though!

 

Dude, I'm just having fun with you. Also, if you think I don't see the problems with my team, you simply haven't been reading what I have typed the last two years.

 

As for selective post editing, I simply replied to the two parts that my points referred to............

 

Both our teams our in the playoffs, which means that we get to have more fun than 20 other team's fans.................

[Riffraff]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/charg...27chargers.html

 

Broncos hate Rivers' talk show

 

Monday night mouthiness creates a flap in Denver

By Kevin Acee

UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

 

December 27, 2007

 

Chargers QB Philip Rivers has been known to occasionally open his mouth during games.

Philip Rivers got the Denver Broncos bucking mad, and he doesn't really understand why.

 

“I don't know what the big deal is,” the Chargers quarterback said yesterday.

 

Two days after the Chargers beat them, the Broncos were still talking about Rivers and his mouth.

 

“I don't really care for the guy, first of all,” Broncos cornerback Champ Bailey told the Rocky Mountain News yesterday. “He's not a respectable guy right now, because you talk too much trash and do this and that, but you're really not a great player in this league right now. You're surrounded by great players, but you're not a great player.

 

“I think he needs to understand where he stands in this league – on his team first and foremost. They've got a lot of classy guys on that team. He kind of represents the classless guy on that team. He's definitely lost my respect.”

 

Even before Monday night's game Bailey told ESPN he didn't like Rivers because of how much Rivers talks.

 

In fact, someone told Rivers about the ESPN report during the game and he asked Bailey on the field, “Champ, what's up? I thought we were tight.”

 

Rivers talks almost constantly on the field. He considers it part of the game and loves getting into exchanges with opponents.

 

“I talked no more in that game than any game in my life,” he said. “ . . . We get after our guys more in practice than in that game.”

 

Bailey and other Broncos spoke yesterday in response to questions about Rivers being caught on camera yelling toward the Broncos during the fourth quarter, long after he had been taken out of the game in the 23-3 rout.

 

After a failed fourth-down pass by Jay Cutler, Rivers was shown going a few steps onto the field to greet linebackers Shaun Phillips and Matt Wilhelm. While doing so, he was looking toward the Broncos.

 

“We get a fourth-down stop,” Rivers recalled yesterday. “I'm not in the game anymore, so I'm way into the defense more than I normally am. . . . Matt Wilhelm and Shaun Phillips, those guys have been jawing the whole game with them. We get a good stop. They are jawing. I'm not anywhere involved. I come out to congratulate them on the stop, and while I'm out there, yeah, there is some eye contact, but I'm saying, 'Atta baby' to Matt Wilhelm and Shaun Phillips. Sure there is eye contact. Maybe there is a smirk. But I am speaking to my guys.”

 

Cutler could be seen at midfield looking in their direction, and Phillips said yesterday that it was Cutler who started the talking.

 

“It's funny,” Phillips said. “Philip walked out and told us not to say anything, that we're winning. And Cutler is yelling. . . . Cutler does a lot of talking. I thought it was funny they were talking and losing.”

 

Phillips said in the fourth quarter Cutler was “just letting us know he wasn't a punk. I respect that. He was letting us know he'd see us next time.”

 

In the exchange, Wilhelm was seen waving good-bye to the Broncos, and Phillips was pointing at the scoreboard.

 

But there was immediate reaction from the television commentators and in the ensuing days from fans about how the behavior was unbecoming for Rivers.

 

Rivers has heard the talk for more than a year that he gets too riled up during games. He has long maintained it's simply how he plays and that it even helps him.

 

“I'm not going to change,” he said. “ . . . I'm not saying I'm trying to be the guy who goes nuts and acts crazy. That's not who I am. But the thing is there are no bad intentions. It's all in fun.”

 

Other Chargers defended Rivers.

 

“What they've got to understand is Philip is a football player,” tight end Antonio Gates said. “If they put him in that category it wouldn't be a problem. But since he's a quarterback, quarterbacks stereotypically shouldn't say or do or act a certain kind of way on the field.

 

“That's the thing that's not known about him. We know him as a person. He does it in the locker room, in practice, on the field. He plays the game with his heart. That's why he's that way.”

 

Rivers also explained yesterday another time he was caught talking by ESPN's cameras on Monday. Rivers said after a play in which Broncos linebacker Jamie Winborn had gotten past fullback Andrew Pinnock, Winborn came near the Chargers sideline and yelled, “Where's Lo Neal?”

 

Rivers said he yelled back, “The ball is over there,” and then yelled to Winborn, “You're glad he ain't playing.”

 

Cutler said yesterday the Broncos had discussed Rivers' antics.

 

“It's an unfortunate situation,” he said. “They talk a lot of stuff. It got heated between the two teams. Personally, I don't think the teams like each other, which is fine. It's just going to add to it later next year and the year after that. It should be exciting.”

 

Of all the teams to question what Rivers has done, Denver seems an odd antagonist.

 

In four career starts against the Broncos, Rivers has a 119.8 passer rating, and the Chargers have won all four by an average of 39-13. In those games, he has completed 69.6 of his passes for 960 yards and seven touchdowns with two interceptions.

 

“I understand some of the frustration is they've lost four in a row to this team,” Rivers said. “People don't like losing four in a row.”

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Then you aren't watching. Cutler can easily make all the throws required of a Pro Bowl QB. This may sound like homerism - but people here who know me know that I'm one of the Broncos' biggest critics - but once this kid learns the speed & nuances of the pro game he'll be a top 5 QB. He's tough, he's strong, he can gain time & yards with his feet, his arm is just a laser, and he can make all the touch throws also.

19 picks in 20 games.

[xMRogers]

In four career starts against the Broncos, Rivers has a 119.8 passer rating, and the Chargers have won all four by an average of 39-13. In those games, he has completed 69.6 of his passes for 960 yards and seven touchdowns with two interceptions.

 

 

Wow - i definitely don't consider Rivers a great QB anymore than I do Cutler, but between his rating and their 26 pt average MOV in these games, he's gotta lick his lips when he sees the Bronco's on the schedule.

 

oh, and this whole thing is a joke - athlete talks trash on field? Why is this a story? Cause he's a QB...that's about it.

[Bill Swerski]

Then you aren't watching. Cutler can easily make all the throws required of a Pro Bowl QB. This may sound like homerism - but people here who know me know that I'm one of the Broncos' biggest critics - but once this kid learns the speed & nuances of the pro game he'll be a top 5 QB. He's tough, he's strong, he can gain time & yards with his feet, his arm is just a laser, and he can make all the touch throws also.

 

+1

 

I've only seen a handfull of Broncos games over the past year and a half, but it's pretty obvious to me that Cutler's going to be a high-tier QB within the next year or two, and most likely a Pro Bowler at some point. He's a playmaker, he has a strong arm, AND he's accurate (63% this year... and that's without significant contribution from Javon Walker or Rod Smith). His development is already far ahead of where guys like Brees and Roethlisberger were less than two years into their careers.

[xMRogers]

+1

 

I've only seen a handfull of Broncos games over the past year and a half, but it's pretty obvious to me that Cutler's going to be a high-tier QB within the next year or two, and most likely a Pro Bowler at some point. He's a playmaker, he has a strong arm, AND he's accurate (63% this year... and that's without significant contribution from Javon Walker or Rod Smith). His development is already far ahead of where guys like Brees and Roethlisberger were less than two years into their careers.

 

Maybe I'm just missing it - just don't see the intangible quality you normally see with guys that end up top tier. Hate to say this aloud, but who he reminds me of in terms of his presence on the field (that I've seen I admit - maybe 4 full games and a handful of partials) is Manning...and not the good one.

 

You could tell pretty quickly that Roethl.., Brady, Brees, Romo and a few other guys (homer pick, but I'd put McNabb in there from back when he started out) were goign to be pro-bowlers probably by the way they commanded the field. Of the young guns, the only guy I see that with is VY and he's debatable cause while he does command the field, I'm just not sure he has the arm mechanics.

 

Phillips, Cutler, Leinart, Croyle, Clemens, Cambell, EManning plus some of the rookies or guys currently 2nd string - sure 2 or 3 will be pro-bowlers eventually out of that 1 to 4 years experience group, but i don't see any of them as pro bowl type locks.

[Bill Swerski]

Maybe I'm just missing it - just don't see the intangible quality you normally see with guys that end up top tier. Hate to say this aloud, but who he reminds me of in terms of his presence on the field (that I've seen I admit - maybe 4 full games and a handful of partials) is Manning...and not the good one.

 

You could tell pretty quickly that Roethl.., Brady, Brees, Romo and a few other guys (homer pick, but I'd put McNabb in there from back when he started out) were goign to be pro-bowlers probably by the way they commanded the field. Of the young guns, the only guy I see that with is VY and he's debatable cause while he does command the field, I'm just not sure he has the arm mechanics.

 

Agreed about Brady and Romo, but Brees was a massive flop during his first three years in the league and Roth initially spent more time handing the ball off to Bettis and FWP than making plays with his arm. When he was forced to make plays with his arm, he tanked from SB XL through last November or so. Cutler is ahead of both of those guys right now. IMO, Vince is massively overrated and only time will tell if he'll be even an average NFL QB.

 

I'm not saying that Cutler is going to be the next Brady or even the next Romo, but his accuracy, arm strength, and ability to keep a play alive when it breaks down are definitely there. The season opener against the Bills was a good example of his ability to make big plays when his team needed them. Also consider that Brandon Marshall has been Cutler's only halfway decent healthy WR this year. With apologies to the underrated Daniel Graham, he hasn't exactly been helped out by a supporting cast of studs.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Bill Swerski