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2008 Week 5 Gamblers (Anonymous) Thread


Steeltown Dre
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Feel free to post anything in here about Picks, Advice, Critique or Info. The more accurate information we have at our fingertips, the better off we are.

 

14-4 so far, 2-1 last weekend. Looking at some very low lines this week, some very tempting +3 and +3.5 home dogs, and another 4 games w/ the home team is favored by 4 or less points. Should be an interesting week. Good luck guys....

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My early play of the week... 3-team teaser:

 

BAL +10 vs. TEN - Tennessee hasn't played anybody. I think they're good, especially on defense, but Baltimore needs this more than they do.

CAR -2.5 vs KCC - I know the Chiefs won at home last week, but it was their division rivals. I think Carolina wins this by at least a FG.

MIA +13.5 vs SDC - Miami coming off a big win and an extra week to prepare. SD defense is not nearly as good w/o Merriman. They may win, but not by two TD's.

 

 

More to follow (once I see Dre's picks). :wacko:

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I really like Buffalo +1 at Arizona. I think they win outright...Arizona is not that good and Bolden probably won't play.

 

 

I couldn't disagree more- I think this is a great spot for AZ - who is very tough at home-

 

haven't had a chance yet to go over the full slate- picks coming

 

ETA: the college forum gets no traffic ------

 

strong play

Utah St +30 tonight

Edited by wildcat2334
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11-2 in posted plays.

 

Holy crap. Let's try to keep this train rolling.

 

I look at this weeks card and I see a ton of games I like. That is not necessarily a good thing. Maybe I am getting over-confident. Maybe this is the week I get tripped up. It will happen. But man I love some of these games.

 

Arizona -1 I see the discussion has already begun on this game. This one is classic. Buffalo is undefeated. 4-1 ATS. Arizona comes off a rough beating at the hands of Jets. Easy one here. You even get a point if you take Buffalo. Trap. While it is possible Warner could fumber or errant pass his team into oblivion, history would suggest it is the Bills that might have touble this Sunday. For all their faults, the Cardinals are actually pretty good at home. They beat Miami in week two, and lost only two home games last year, and only one to a non-division foe. They are 3-0 in their last against the AFC going back to 2007. This is a tough spot for a team traveling for the second week in a row from the east coast. The Bills have had a nice run to start the season but I think it ends here, and Boldin being out will not be the deciding factor.

 

Miami +7 Here is a similar sitution where the West Coast team is traveling to the east coast. San Diego is a better team. But it is clear the Dolphins aren't the pushovers they were last year. The Chargers needed a late game comeback to beat the Raiders on the road last week. Are they really 7 points better than the Dolphins? There are some statistical trends that point to the Chargers in this game. No doubt about it. But there is also a trend (meaningless as it is) that the 'Phins are 6-1 vs. San Diego. As bad as the Dolphins were last year, they actually hung around in a lot of games and just lost all the close ones. This is a better team. Playing against a Chargers team that does not look like the dominant team they have been. I'll gladly take the 7 points here and an outright win by the Dolphins is very much a possiblilty.

 

SF +3 Here we have another AFC team traveling across the country to play a west coaster. Lots of problems with this game from a trend standpoint. The Patriots haven't lost off the by week in the last 5 years. Then again, they had Tom Brady the last 5 years so what does that really mean. Here is the one thing that stands out to me, aside from the fact that the 49ers are young, hungry, and at home. New England is 1-8 ATS. The fact that they are giving a field goal on the road to a decent looking team still screams out the fact that fading the Patriots has become a money making proposition, and this looks like an ideal spot to me.

 

Detroit +3.5 Pretty simple here. We have a bad team, and a so-so team. The bad team is at home off a bye. The so-so team is on the road, on turf, and is favored by more than a field goal. And the so so team has not beaten this bad team in their last 3 attempts. Yeah, I'll take my chances with the 3.5. Another home dog.

 

Ten -3 Maybe I am just biased because I have adopted the Titans as my "other" team, or maybe is is the fact that they have been an ATS machine to the clip of 5-1 and 12-5. Maybe it is the fact that Baltimore is 2-5 ATS off a division loss. But mostly it is just the fact that the Titans are the better team, and the Ravens coming off a short week from a bruising physical Monday night game. Probably my riskiest pick going with the road favorite in a week where the home dogs all look so good, but I am going to ride this Titans train until it stops chugging. They are better than people think.

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11-2 in posted plays.

 

Holy crap. Let's try to keep this train rolling.

 

I look at this weeks card and I see a ton of games I like. That is not necessarily a good thing. Maybe I am getting over-confident. Maybe this is the week I get tripped up. It will happen. But man I love some of these games.

 

Arizona -1 I see the discussion has already begun on this game. This one is classic. Buffalo is undefeated. 4-1 ATS. Arizona comes off a rough beating at the hands of Jets. Easy one here. You even get a point if you take Buffalo. Trap. While it is possible Warner could fumber or errant pass his team into oblivion, history would suggest it is the Bills that might have touble this Sunday. For all their faults, the Cardinals are actually pretty good at home. They beat Miami in week two, and lost only two home games last year, and only one to a non-division foe. They are 3-0 in their last against the AFC going back to 2007. This is a tough spot for a team traveling for the second week in a row from the east coast. The Bills have had a nice run to start the season but I think it ends here, and Boldin being out will not be the deciding factor.

 

Miami +7 Here is a similar sitution where the West Coast team is traveling to the east coast. San Diego is a better team. But it is clear the Dolphins aren't the pushovers they were last year. The Chargers needed a late game comeback to beat the Raiders on the road last week. Are they really 7 points better than the Dolphins? There are some statistical trends that point to the Chargers in this game. No doubt about it. But there is also a trend (meaningless as it is) that the 'Phins are 6-1 vs. San Diego. As bad as the Dolphins were last year, they actually hung around in a lot of games and just lost all the close ones. This is a better team. Playing against a Chargers team that does not look like the dominant team they have been. I'll gladly take the 7 points here and an outright win by the Dolphins is very much a possiblilty.

 

SF +3 Here we have another AFC team traveling across the country to play a west coaster. Lots of problems with this game from a trend standpoint. The Patriots haven't lost off the by week in the last 5 years. Then again, they had Tom Brady the last 5 years so what does that really mean. Here is the one thing that stands out to me, aside from the fact that the 49ers are young, hungry, and at home. New England is 1-8 ATS. The fact that they are giving a field goal on the road to a decent looking team still screams out the fact that fading the Patriots has become a money making proposition, and this looks like an ideal spot to me.

 

Detroit +3.5 Pretty simple here. We have a bad team, and a so-so team. The bad team is at home off a bye. The so-so team is on the road, on turf, and is favored by more than a field goal. And the so so team has not beaten this bad team in their last 3 attempts. Yeah, I'll take my chances with the 3.5. Another home dog.

 

Ten -3 Maybe I am just biased because I have adopted the Titans as my "other" team, or maybe is is the fact that they have been an ATS machine to the clip of 5-1 and 12-5. Maybe it is the fact that Baltimore is 2-5 ATS off a division loss. But mostly it is just the fact that the Titans are the better team, and the Ravens coming off a short week from a bruising physical Monday night game. Probably my riskiest pick going with the road favorite in a week where the home dogs all look so good, but I am going to ride this Titans train until it stops chugging. They are better than people think.

Totally agree with Miami.

 

You have me just about sold on Arizona. After all, they trailed by 2+ TD's the past two weeks to bad teams, and were very fortunate to win both. They won't be so fortunate in their third straight road game, against a team on the other coast that can score points. They get down by doubled-digits to the Cardinals, and I just don't see them coming back.

 

SF - I think this may be the most intriguing matchup of the week. This game will tell us a lot about both teams, in my opinion. Are the Niners just early-season pretenders once again, or are they ready to make that next step and compete for the division (although it is a weak division at that)? And for NE, are they still good enough to beat average teams on the road, or is this season going to be a huge struggle because of the Brady injury? I'll probably stay away from this one, although I'll definitely watch the game.

 

DET - I llike the fact that they're coming off a bye, and they finally have the Millen thing off of their shoulders. I also did not realize that they've beaten Chicago 3 straight times. I'll have to think about this one a little more...

 

TEN - I don't know... They haven't played anyone yet, and Baltimore coming off a tough road loss tends to make me believe they will want this game more. Should be a great game between two solid defenses. It could go either way, but I just don't like TEN enough on the road to think they'll cover here.

 

All in all, I like at least 3 of your picks (especially Miami). The other two would be games I will really be interested in, but not leaning enough either way to play them.

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totally agree with tenn -3, flacco won't cut it against this Defense!! -3 is easy

 

Also like the detroit pick, chicago doesn't have a good pass defense, tillman is hurt. calvin johnson is a beast!! already mentioned tough game vs philly.

Also, Detroit has to be hyped about the firing of Millen, those fans are going to be nuts!!

 

Disagree with Ari though,

 

1. They busted their arses off in a high scoring game vs NYJ, I highly doubt Warner will put up those numbers again.

2.Weak run game

3. Boldin is out, also you have to wonder what's going on in the other wr's head as they watch Boldin limply lay on the ground. You think they will still jump and reach in the middle of the field a week later?

 

You are right it looks trappish, Zona is gr8 at home, but like your Tenn theory, Buffalo is for real. Best to stay away imo.

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1PM 4 team teaser (13 points)

 

Baltimore +16 vs. Tennessee

Houston +17.5 vs. Indy

Carolina +3.5 vs KC

Washington +19 at Philly

 

 

4PM 4 team teaser (13 points)

 

Denver +9.5 vs. Tampa Bay

San Franchisco +17 vs. New England

Arizona +14.5 vs. Buffalo

Dallas -2.5 vs. Cincy

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I don't know why Dre hasn't shown back here, but I will give his picks for those of you waiting for them.

 

Dre is on Miami and Ten - which also happen to be 2 of my plays.

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I took Ten -2 (dres pick)

 

I took Mia/SD under 44.5

 

I teased Tenn +8 Miami +16 and under 54.5 in Mia /SD

I'm not so great on totals, but if you can stick those I think you are money today. Good luck.

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Dre actually found Ten -1 somewhere and that is his play. Forgot to mention that.

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:wacko: Ack... well, hopefully they'll come out and pound 'em. Don't see any reason why they can't.

No, I like it just as good at 3 as at 1. That game is actually the least worrisome of my plays today. Flacco will be wishing he was playing Pittsburgh again by halftime.

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Sorry posting here late - lots of money came in on Bal today - now the line is a pick at most places. Makes me a little nervous but still confident Ten can get a W here.

 

All plays:

 

Miami +7 (Bodog/5Dimes)

Tennessee -1 (-123 @ Pinny)

Chicago -3

 

 

Miami +7

 

* Chargers are 0-4 ATS since 2001 when traveling to the East Coast to play an opponent who has a losing record. (they are 2-2 ATS when that opponent has a winning record)

* In the last two seasons, San Diego is a mere 3-7 ATS on the road vs. non-divisional opponents, including 1-4 ATS in the first 9 weeks of the season. As road favorites of more than 1 point in these games, they are 1-4 ATS, failing to cover by an average of 4 points and winning by an average of 2 points.

* Miami is 5-2-1 ATS off their bye week since 2001, including 1-0-1 at home. Last year off their bye, Miami held Buffalo to a tight, low scoring 13-10 loss as +3 dogs.

* Miami is 6-1 ATS and 4-3 SU as a home dog of 3.5 or more in a non-division game, covering by an average of 10 points. If home dog of 4 or more they are a perfect 5-0 ATS, winning 3 outright and covering by an average of 15 points.

* A line of Mia +7 marks the 4th largest home underdog line in 20 years for Miami. Larger lines inclued +16 to the 2007 Undefeated NE Patriots and their early season covering machine, +9.5 to the 2007 SB Champion NY Giants, and +9.5 to the 2004 SB Champion NE Patriots on MNF, a game which Miami won outright. In those three prior games, Miami was 2-1 ATS, including a 3 point loss to the Giants last year.

* Teams who were favored the week before yet were losing at the start of the 4th quarter and then scored 12+ more points then their opponent in the 4th quarter are 1-8-1 ATS as a road the following week including 0-7-1 ATS. On average, they have failed to cover by 8 points. In addition, they are just 5-5 SU and have, on average, lost outright by an average of 4 points.

 

Yes, Miami has a slight bit of value sucked out of them for destroying the Patriots, but clearly based on historical lines, Miami is getting a TON of points here. May not seem like it, but the numbers don't lie - 4th largest line for them in the last 20 years. This line also ties the third largest line that the Chargers have ever laid in a non-divisional road game in the last 20 years. They were favored twice by 10 in Cleveland (04) and SF (06) and covered in both. But they were favored by 7 in Minnesota (07) and 6 in NY (Jets 05) and were 0-2 ATS.

 

If Miami played this game immediately after the NE game, I would not be siding with them. They really expended maximum effort and came away on cloud 9. But they have had 1 week extra to humble themselves and actually have a chip on their shoulder because many commentators have stated the only way they beat NE was to use the tricky Wildcat Formation. The Dolphins are eager to prove that they can win no matter what tricks are used, and are looking to prove a point on Sunday. San Diego has no chance to relax, and after they really dug deep and brought up all emotion and energy last week to come from behind and score 25 4th quarter points. Now they have to travel to Miami as a large road favorite with the enemy New England Patriots awaiting them at home as soon as this game is over. It won't be easy, and may be ugly, but I'll take the TD and hope for a cover.

 

 

Ten -1 (-123 @ Pinny)

 

First a note on the line. This one is a variety of numbers at a variety of outlets, so do some shopping to get the best line you can. As I type, Skybook and 5Dimes both have -2 out there. I recommend using your own judgement in terms of what you want to buy down to if you can't play at Pinny. My only advice is to not spend more than you would if you didn't buy at all. In other words, if you are laying $500 and you line is -2, lay $500 @ -1.5 but not more than $500. Reason being, I don't want you to be out of pocket more than you would be if the play loses, and any play can lose.

 

* The last 4 years, the Ravens are 2-5 ATS overall including 1-3 ATS at home and 0-3 ATS as underdogs the week after facing the Steelers

* If they lost to the Steelers in that game, they are 0-3 ATS, failing to cover by an average of 10 points.

* The past 2 seasons, teams who have faced the Steelers the week prior are 3-13 ATS, including 1-6 ATS and 1-6 SU as a dog. If after week 2, they are 0-6 ATS and 0-6 SU, losing by an average of 21 points and failing to cover by an average of 15.

* The Ravens are 4-8 ATS as home dogs on Sundays since 2002, including 1-5 ATS and SU in non-divisional home dog games. They have lost by an average of 10 and failed to cover by an average of 14 points.

 

* There have been 19 times since 1990 where a team has ridden a 4 game win streak up to it's final game before a bye. That team has gone 16-5 SU and 11-8-2 ATS in that game, winning by an average of 12 points.

* If the team started out 4-0, they are 6-1 SU and 5-1-1 ATS in their week 5 matchup, winning by an average of 15 and covering by an average of 6.

* Small sample size, but in the first half of the season, teams with no losses and at least 3 wins, heading into their bye week next week are 3-0 SU and 3-0 ATS as road favorites

* Since division restructuring in 2002, Tennessee is 5-1 ATS and 5-1 SU prior to their bye week, though this number included 4 games where they were underdogs, in which they went 3-1 ATS and 3-1 SU in those games.

* As favorites prior the a bye, they are 2-0 ATS and SU.

* Teams who have faced the Vikings the prior week are 13-4 ATS, including 5-2 ATS if favored. So far this season, they are 2-1 ATS with the only loss being Jaguars's upset over the Colts

 

A lot of trends here I uncovered in my research. The scariest one from a Ten backer's perspective:

 

* Home dogs w/ a line of between +2 and +3 and a low total (less than 35) are 15-7-2 ATS since 1992, and 14-10 SU

* Since 2000, they are 7-2-1 ATS and 7-3 SU, the only losses coming in weeks 13 and 16. Prior to week 13, they are 7-0-1 ATS and 7-1 SU.

* If they covered their last game, the dog is 4-0-1 ATS and if the game is not a primetime game, they are 4-0 SU and 4-0 ATS

 

It is a scary trend to be sure, but looking specifically at the Ravens as home dogs:

 

* Any home game where the Ravens were lined as dogs between +2 and +3.5 since 2002, they wound up 1-6 ATS and 1-6 SU, losing by an average of 6 points and failing to cover by an average of 9

 

I will first put out on the record that both of my systems show Baltimore winning this game. However, after studying this game I think if you can get Ten down from 3 (preferably to 1.5) I think it is the play. All Monday Night we had to hear about how great the Baltimore D looks and how dominant they are. And as bad as the Steelers looked and played, and as injured as they were, they still pulled off the victory against this "dominant" Baltimore unit. I also heard Baltimore's Head Coach talking about how they are a "dynasty" in waiting type of team. Big talk from a team that:

 

* Beat Cincy by 7 at home week 1

* Week 3 was losing 10-6 to Cleveland at home, before taking 2 Cleveland turnovers inside their own 20 for Ravens TDs. In fact, Baltimore's 4 TDs all came from starting the drive at the Cle 12, 35 and 43, as well as a turnover at the Cle 22 returned for TD. Drives started in Baltimore territory resulted in zero points for the Ravens.

* Week 4 beat up on a Steeler team that is not a power that they were in Week 1. In fact, against Cleveland and Philly, Pittsburgh put up no more than 10 points total, yet put up 23 on the Ravens.

 

As much as anyone wants to say that Tennessee is a "public" team for being 4-0, they are no where near that level where they should be faded just because they have covered well. Also realize, this matchup pits the only two teams who are undefeated ATS, Bal is 3-0 and Ten is 4-0. Believe it or not, the MNF loss in Pittsburgh HELPED the Ten side more than it hurt it. Baltimore really came out and took advantage of Pittsburgh's poor O-Line, and once Pittsburgh slowed down on the blitzing, they could not pressure Flacco, (realize they were missing two starters along their D-Line), and so Flacco actually looked decent. Most who I have talked to see the Steelers as lucky to win, and Baltimore played a much better game. That really helps us here. I see a close game in Baltimore's first real test against a team with both a top defense and rushing attack who can also execute effectively through the air. I look for Tennessee to win this game and therefore I will lay the 1 point.

 

 

Chi -3

 

* Since division restructuring in 2002, winless teams off their bye and are home dogs of a TD or fewer points are 1-4-1 ATS and 1-5 SU. In their 5 losses, they have lost by an average of 8 points and failed to cover by an average of 4 points.

 

The last 3 seasons, Chicago is 3-2-1 ATS vs. Detroit. Last season, it has been well documented that Detroit won SU in both games and won both ATS. Therefore, prior to 2007, Chicago was 3-0-1 ATS, including 2-0 SU in Detroit.

 

What happened in 2007? In February, Chicago went to the Superbowl and lost, and we all know what happens after Superbowl appearances. In addition, Chicago was a team in turmoil last year. Losing several coaches, including their DC, losing their starting RB (Thomas Jones), Tank Johnson, and Lance Briggs sat out much of training camp. It's not an excuse, it is the facts. So let's reflect back on those two losses to Detroit:

 

Week 4 - A 1-2 Chicago team after losing 34-10 to Dallas traveled to Detroit. Deciding to switch QBs, they turned to Brian Griese to start. This game featured two quick scores - a Griese INT returned for a TD, and a Hester kick return for a TD. Griese threw 2 other Ints, and Chicago's starting RB (Cedric Benson) could only run for 50 yards. After allowing 34 fourth quarter points (!!!) by Detroit, Chicago lost by 10.

 

Week 8 - A 3-4 Chicago team faced a 4-2 Detroit team, this time in Chicago. The results were not much different. Griese threw 4 interceptions, Benson rushed for 50 yards (again), each team scored only 1 TD but Detroit added 3 FGs to come away with the win. Detroit improved to 5-2 and was on its way to try and match Kitna's 10 win prophecy.

 

The only reason I went into this detail is to illustrate how different these teams are from last season. Chicago is NOT off a Superbowl appearance, they are 2-2 with 2 FG losses against arguably two of the more impressive teams in the NFC right now, the Panthers and the Bucs, and victories over Indy and Philly. Detroit is underachieving and under performing and while typically that does indicate some value, I really don't see it happening this week. Chicago is starting Orton, who has thrown 2 Ints each of the last 2 weeks, but those came against TB and Phi, teams doing very well in takeaways this season.

 

Meanwhile, Detroit has faced three teams who each are starting QBs who never started a NFL game before this season. GB, SF and ATL have combined to turn the ball over 18 times this year, yet Detroit has taken a whopping ZERO Ints this year and 1 total turnover recovery, a fumble (ranking them last in the NFL). Contributing 6 turnovers themselves, they rank dead last in the NFL at a differential of -5.

 

The line is not a trap, either. Since 2001, the average line for games in Det nets to a pickem. Chi was road favorites in 4 of those 7 games, and the lines were: -5, -3, -5, -2.5. A -3.5 line here is not a setup, at least not in my mind. It is lined both fairly and correctly, and I will give the FG and pull for a Chi cover.

 

The only trend that really does scare me is:

 

* Teams who are off at least 3 losses in a row prior to their bye, who then face a divisional opponent who won the week prior are 8-0-1 ATS and 8-1 SU. If an underdog, they are 5-0-1 ATS, winning outright by an average of 5 points and covering by an average of 9.

 

It is scary, that is for sure. Fortunately, I can state that teams who are winless and have never covered and are off their bye are 5-5 ATS since 2002, and just 2-3 ATS if dogs of less than 1 TD.uuuu

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My gut says Baltimore needs the game much more than Tennessee, but I'm going with Dre's information and making a small play on TEN -1. I have been high on Miami being such a huge underdog at home all week, and have more on MIA +6 (odds changed right before I played, but I still like Miami to cover). Also did a 10-point teaser, so I have:

 

10 Point Teaser (3 Teams:

 

Lions(Detroit) +13

Panthers(Carolina) 0

Eagles(Philadelphia) +3.5

 

 

Titans(Tennessee) -1

 

 

Dolphins(Miami) +6

 

 

And, my teaser from earlier in the week:

 

4) BET ID=256716611

 

Dolphins(Miami) +13

Panthers(Carolina) -3

Saints(NewOrleans) +3.5 (-120)

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:wacko: God bless you Dre' :D

 

 

werd - well done, no harm in me laying of Balt/Tenn would have pushed

 

3-0 for me so far- looking for a huge day hopefully after crushing college football yesterday- dayum I love these streaks!!!

 

 

looks like everyone is on the plus side so far!

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My gut says Baltimore needs the game much more than Tennessee, but I'm going with Dre's information and making a small play on TEN -1. I have been high on Miami being such a huge underdog at home all week, and have more on MIA +6 (odds changed right before I played, but I still like Miami to cover). Also did a 10-point teaser, so I have:

 

10 Point Teaser (3 Teams:

 

Lions(Detroit) +13

Panthers(Carolina) 0

Eagles(Philadelphia) +3.5

LOST

 

Titans(Tennessee) -1

WON - Thanks for convincing me, Dre.

 

Dolphins(Miami) +6

WON

 

And, my teaser from earlier in the week:

 

4) BET ID=256716611

 

Dolphins(Miami) +13

Panthers(Carolina) -3

Saints(NewOrleans) +3.5 (-120)

Need NO to win or lose by a field goal or less to win this.

 

Also did another 10-pointer, with:

 

DAL -6

ARI +7.5

TBB +14

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