Duchess Jack Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 How much should a nice window cost installed (for a townhouse)? also... What questions should I be asking about with regards to a new hot water heater and furnace? I am looking to go energy efficiant, but don't know if my gas lines are large enough for tankless. I have an army of folk coming Thurday and Friday for estimates. Is there anything I need to avoid or assure the furnace and/or hot water heater have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 (edited) Are you replaceing the frame, or just inserting a new window into an existing frame? What do you consider a nice window? What type of glass are you looking for? What thermal properties are yo looking for? What is the size of the opening? Are you looking for wood or Aluminum? What tyep of window ie.. casement, double hung, picture etc.... Your window question is like me asking how much would a nice car cost? If you can do it go with the tankless hot water system. You'll love it. You get hot water faster, and in the long run it is cheaper. Edited October 13, 2008 by Perchoutofwater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 I think the tankless might be too much because hassell, cause I'd need increase the diameter of my gas line. As for windows, all good questions I guess. Not too sure of the size, but in the spirit of me just looking for an estimate, lets call them 'standard'. How nice? I don't know. I am looking to get the best functionality possible (clean opening and closing with great insulation). I live in a town house and the old windows coming out have storm windows with them - which would be coming out as well. I guess this would include the frame. The windows need to be brown, but I could go with wood or aluminum - whichever is going to be more energy efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Regarding hot water heaters: FWIW, Consumer Reports recently did an article (October 2008) that indicated the tankless models aren't all they are made out to be - yet. Due to high initial cost, the break even point is many years down the road (they calculated 22 years based on one model). They also noted that the water temperature can be a little inconsistent. They continue to recommend gas tank water heaters with 9+ year warranties - the make doesn't matter. I looked into windows a bit this past spring, and it all makes me go . There are so many options... Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I think the tankless might be too much because hassell, cause I'd need increase the diameter of my gas line. As for windows, all good questions I guess. Not too sure of the size, but in the spirit of me just looking for an estimate, lets call them 'standard'. How nice? I don't know. I am looking to get the best functionality possible (clean opening and closing with great insulation). I live in a town house and the old windows coming out have storm windows with them - which would be coming out as well. I guess this would include the frame. The windows need to be brown, but I could go with wood or aluminum - whichever is going to be more energy efficient. If you want a nice low-e double hung replacemnt in a standard 3'-1 5/8"w x 4'-8 7/8"h size for under $500. That is material cost only. Installation will vary depending on your local labor market, but you could probably do it yourself. Window installation isn't rocket science, and can be done with tools you probably already have sitting around the house in a couple of hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 If you want a nice low-e double hung replacemnt in a standard 3'-1 5/8"w x 4'-8 7/8"h size for under $500. That is material cost only. Installation will vary depending on your local labor market, but you could probably do it yourself. Window installation isn't rocket science, and can be done with tools you probably already have sitting around the house in a couple of hours. Wow, that's more than I expected. It is what it is though. I thought about doing them myself, but I don't want to put so much focus into energy savings only to not install the window as well as it should be. Also... at $500 a pop (around 18 needed) I don't want to risk my clumsiness getting me in the doghouse with the Wench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 (edited) Wow, that's more than I expected. It is what it is though. I thought about doing them myself, but I don't want to put so much focus into energy savings only to not install the window as well as it should be. Also... at $500 a pop (around 18 needed) I don't want to risk my clumsiness getting me in the doghouse with the Wench. If you aren't wanting the Low-e coatings then you can get them for about $275 - $300 a pop. You can get cheap builders grade windows for $150 to $200 a pop. Edited October 13, 2008 by Perchoutofwater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 If you aren't wanting the Low-e coatings then you can get them for about $275 - $300 a pop. You can get cheap builders grade windows for $150 to $200 a pop. What would I be getting at $500 a pop that I wouldn't be getting at $275? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 What would I be getting at $500 a pop that I wouldn't be getting at $275? At both price ranges you get low-e glass, but the perfromance of the glass at the $500 is significantly better, which will cut your heating in cooling bills significantly. You also get better finishes, hardware, and smooter operation with the $500 window. You also get more color options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Wow, that's more than I expected. You're probably not alone. You can thank dramatic raw material price increases over the last 2 years - especially in plastics, aluminum, and steel. Perch, what do you know about fiberglass windows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 You're probably not alone. You can thank dramatic raw material price increases over the last 2 years - especially in plastics, aluminum, and steel. Perch, what do you know about fiberglass windows? Fiberglass windows are expensive! They are very good insulators, the only other material that comes close is solid wood. I personally still like wood windows, and if paint your house every 5-10 years like you are supposed to that would be the way to go. The problem with wood windows is if you do not paint them on a regular basis, they can deteriorate. FIberglass does not deteriorate. It can be painted but does not have to. Personally if it were me I'd go for wood. If you don't think you will maintain it properly then go for a composite where the interior is wood an the exterior is either aluminum clad wood or a blend of wood chips and plastic which can be painted, but will not deteriorate if the paint in not maintained. Don't get me wrong, fiberglass windows have there place, just not in my house. I just don't like the look of them, and they are the most expensive windows out there right now. Having said all that, I am no means an expert on residential windows. I'm a commercial contractor. I know a whole lot about storefronts, curtain walls, and thermal properties of glass, but not so much about residential punched openings. Most of this is stuff I've learned over the past year or so in researching it for my own use, as I am contemplating changing out the windows at my house in an attempt to get my electric bill under $500 a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 in an attempt to get my electric bill under $500 a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Tell me about it. I'm also looking at changing out my heat pumps and my t-stats. If I can get a commitment out of my wife that we will be in this house for atleast another 10 years, I'll be getting some 19 SEER or higher heat pumps and some programable t-stats with humidity controll and new windows. The only problem with that is to do the HVAC and the Windows it is going to cost me about $35,000. I've run the numbers and I'll break even at current energy prices I need to stay in the house for 9 years and 9 months after changing everything out. Assuming energy prices keep going up, I might break even in 7-8 years, but I'd rather be conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I just put in some nice vinyl windows last year. I paid about $150 -$175 each on average. They were replacemnents windows that my son and I put in. They are low E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsmayes Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Windows are one thing I really hate shopping for. First, there's a million different kinds and unless you really know your stuff there's a high chance of being duped by some sleaze ball salesman. Second, a large percentage of window contractors do those high pressure in home demonstrations where the guy will want you to buy the windows right then, otherwise you lose "discounts". Why the hell do your windows become 40% more expensive once you leave my house? I had one of those guys come over for a "free estimate" and damn near had to throw him out of my house. I'll only buy from contractors where they'll come out, give me a estimate that's good for X numbers of days; giving me a chance to get three competing bids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I would recommend finding a good general contractor and have him install them. They can get very good window at "warehouses". You can go there and pick out what you want. They are good quality windows at reasonable prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Tell me about it. I'm also looking at changing out my heat pumps and my t-stats. If I can get a commitment out of my wife that we will be in this house for atleast another 10 years, I'll be getting some 19 SEER or higher heat pumps and some programable t-stats with humidity controll and new windows. The only problem with that is to do the HVAC and the Windows it is going to cost me about $35,000. I've run the numbers and I'll break even at current energy prices I need to stay in the house for 9 years and 9 months after changing everything out. Assuming energy prices keep going up, I might break even in 7-8 years, but I'd rather be conservative. I would be glad to talk to you about this if you want to PM me your phone number. I typically recommend against going with some higher seer equipment because "actual" ratings don't match what the manufacturers are trying to sell. For example, I sold a 16 Seer Trane Heat Pump today, matched it up will proper coil and variable speed furnace and the ARI rating will only reach 14.25. And I would most definitely stay away from 19 seer. Be glad to help if you want some suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 What questions should I be asking about with regards to a new hot water heater and furnace? I am looking to go energy efficiant, but don't know if my gas lines are large enough for tankless. I have an army of folk coming Thurday and Friday for estimates. Is there anything I need to avoid or assure the furnace and/or hot water heater have? Do not buy a tankless for energy efficiency. Buy it for endless hot water. Here's why? 1. Using Rheem as an example, their marketing literature estimates yearly operating costs to be $230. A standard 40 gallon tank costs about $310 per year, so you will save about $80/year for tankless. Cost to install one is about $1800 more than a standard water heater, so your payback is about 22 years. 2. If you are in a cold climate, your flow rate will DROP in the winter. The tankless is designed to maintain consistent hot water, and in the winter the water coming from the ground is colder, so the tankless will decrease flow rate to maintain the hot water temperature coming out the other end. So your water pressure WILL suffer in winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Do not buy a tankless for energy efficiency. Buy it for endless hot water. Here's why? 1. Using Rheem as an example, their marketing literature estimates yearly operating costs to be $230. A standard 40 gallon tank costs about $310 per year, so you will save about $80/year for tankless. Cost to install one is about $1800 more than a standard water heater, so your payback is about 22 years. 2. If you are in a cold climate, your flow rate will DROP in the winter. The tankless is designed to maintain consistent hot water, and in the winter the water coming from the ground is colder, so the tankless will decrease flow rate to maintain the hot water temperature coming out the other end. So your water pressure WILL suffer in winter. Typically, what size gas line do you need for the tankless water heater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerx Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Do not buy a tankless for energy efficiency. Buy it for endless hot water. Here's why? 1. Using Rheem as an example, their marketing literature estimates yearly operating costs to be $230. A standard 40 gallon tank costs about $310 per year, so you will save about $80/year for tankless. Cost to install one is about $1800 more than a standard water heater, so your payback is about 22 years. 2. If you are in a cold climate, your flow rate will DROP in the winter. The tankless is designed to maintain consistent hot water, and in the winter the water coming from the ground is colder, so the tankless will decrease flow rate to maintain the hot water temperature coming out the other end. So your water pressure WILL suffer in winter. How hard is it to install a tankless water heater the do-it-yourself way? I'm pretty handy, and have installed a regular water heater by myself, is there anything difficult I'm unaware of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Plumbing- Friday's Payday, chit runs downhill and don't chew your fingernails........as far as windows, I liked vinyl doublehung retrofits.....chicks dig how easy they drop back into the room to clean....sandstone low E with muttons really gets'em moist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojoMan Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Can any of the experts speak to the value of attic insulation, new windows, and their effects on heating and cooling bills? We live in the DC metro so the weather is not extreme. We tend to like the house on the cool side. We have a 56 year old single family about 2000 sq ft. Part of it is an addition with adequate insulation and modern windows. The old part has some disentegrating attic insulation and old, single-pane, double-hung windows. So, if we had infinite money, we'd do both the insulation and windows in the old part of the house. Please confirm or contradict my understanding. 1. Improving the insulation/windows will lower my heating bills (gas heat) more than my A/C. 2. Attic insulation is more effective than new windows. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Typically, what size gas line do you need for the tankless water heater? 3/4" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 How hard is it to install a tankless water heater the do-it-yourself way? I'm pretty handy, and have installed a regular water heater by myself, is there anything difficult I'm unaware of? You HAVE to have a specific vent kit, and most typical installations vent out the side of the house. So most are mounted on an outside wall in the basement and vented horizontally. So usually this means moving gas lines as well. You can not use the existing water heater vent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 1. Improving the insulation/windows will lower my heating bills (gas heat) more than my A/C.2. Attic insulation is more effective than new windows. Once the water-heater, furnace and windows are done, the next step is the attic. thank you Eli Lilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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