Azazello1313 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 sounds like he had some sort of epilectic seizure, which more than likely may have been tied to his undiagnosed, untreated autism. undiagnosed and untreated because his parents are lunatic cultists who believe that such disorders do not exist (or are caused by malicious aliens, or whatever), and that he drugs to treat these disorders are poison. was his death totally avoidable? I kinda want to feel outraged at these morans for so clearly putting the health of their kid in jeopardy, but mostly I just feel sad for their loss and their stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 I feel your outrage, but do we allow the govt to force our generic beliefs on families like this or Jehovah's Witnesses or any other religion that restricts medical intervention? I said nothing about having the government force people to do anything. I'm not saying barbarino needs to be criminally prosecuted or anything. although, now that you mention it, is he really any less negligent than, say, this guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) I feel your outrage, but do we allow the govt to force our generic beliefs on families like this or Jehovah's Witnesses or any other religion that restricts medical intervention? I think outrage is often confused with a desire to over legislate. It seems whenever someone mentions something here that pisses them off, among the first things brought up is that we as a country can't go around telling people how to live their lives. That's not the point. At the risk of putting words into Azz's mouth, I think he's simply saying that he thinks Travola should be ashamed of allowing his religion to needlessly put his child at risk. I didn't sense a call for government action in that. Woops, beat me to it. Edited January 5, 2009 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 let's wait til the facts come in, shall we - the story I read was that the kid was taking depakote and may have stopped taking it on the advice of an MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I said nothing about having the government force people to do anything. I'm not saying barbarino needs to be criminally prosecuted or anything. although, now that you mention it, is he really any less negligent than, say, this guy? People endanger their children all the time. Not everyone, but some. I was passed once by a woman in an SUV doing nearly 70 mph with her four or five year old child on her lap. The kid was steering the thing while the woman brushed her hair and called people on her cell phone. I'm pretty sure she was drunk. Called the cops (State Patrol) and tailed the SUV for miles but cops weren't even remotely interested. Makes you wonder how full the prisons would be if everyone who endangered their kid in some way went to jail for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I heard Scientologist don't believe in psychiatric drugs, etc....but they're also against other medical interventions? Not to knock other's beliefs, hopefully no Scientologist around here, but a religion that was created by a sci-fi writer just to see if he could really make it happen, and one that says we were all aliens trapped in some volcano from outer space that erupted and blasted our souls to pieces (that's why were're unsettled) is a truly crazy notion to me. Oh, and if you pay $$$, your alien soul can be repaired. And you can now get a tax-deduction for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I heard Scientologist don't believe in psychiatric drugs, etc....but they're also against other medical interventions? Not to knock other's beliefs, hopefully no Scientologist around here, but a religion that was created by a sci-fi writer just to see if he could really make it happen, and one that says we were all aliens trapped in some volcano from outer space that erupted and blasted our souls to pieces (that's why were're unsettled) is a truly crazy notion to me. Oh, and if you pay $$$, your alien soul can be repaired. And you can now get a tax-deduction for it. No more far-fetched than any other religion, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 No more far-fetched than any other religion, really. not if you include that tax deduction part. that is whack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Jett Travolta was reportedly very sick with Kawasaki Syndrome as a young child, but that wouldn't necessarily be connected to any seizures, I don't think. I actually remember Kelly Preston being interviewed years ago talking about how her son was sick...and I think it was in connection with her concerns about using chemicals around the house, etc. There's no evidence that cleaning chemicals can cause anything like this but maybe this is the Scientologist aspect of the thing? Depakote is a pretty standard antiseizure medication. Don't know why a doc would take him off it unless he'd been seizure free for so long that they wanted to give it a go without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 This is incredibily sad... if it happened as an indirect result of their religious beliefs (or even as a direct result of neglect), then I'm sure that it will cause the Travoltas to do some serious re-evaluations. No amount of ridicule or scorn from us will ever make them feel worse than they do right now. And if this boy's death is indeed tied in some way to the beliefs of Scientology, and the Travoltas still do not wake up from this tragedy, then nothing we could ever say or do will get them to wake up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 No more far-fetched than any other religion, really. +1 and I'm a little religious. out of curiosity did you ever read up on Scientology and their beliefs ? i think if you do , it will clearly appear to be far fetched ...this is not to say that that i have anything against them ( i do not ) but i once read into it deeply and it does seem very far fetched imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 here are some excerpts on Scientology and its beliefes : One belief of Scientology is that a human is an immortal alien spiritual being, termed a thetan, that is trapped on planet Earth in a physical body. Hubbard described these "thetans" in "The Space Opera" cosmogony. Scientology, the cosmic source or life force is represented by the Greek letter theta (Θ).[11][13] Theta is meant to represent life or the life source, it is not part of the physical universe but it can control the universe.[14] The individual expression of theta is called the thetan.[14] This is held to be the true identity of every human being – intrinsically good, all-knowing, non-material, and capable of unlimited creativity.[11] As thetans, people are pure spirit, immortal and godlike, outside of space and time.[11][13] The Scientologist concept of the thetan thus is somewhat similar to the Western concept of the soul, with the distinction that the Western concept does not usually go so far as to assert a godlike true nature for human beings.[11] According to Scientologist mythology, thetans brought the material world into being largely for their own pleasure.[14] The material universe – composed of matter, energy, space and time (MEST) – was created by thetans in a primordial past, a "time before time".[11] It has no independent reality, but derives its apparent reality from the fact that most thetans agree it exists.[ Thetans are believed to have occupied innumerable bodies over time The Church of Scientology holds that at the higher levels of initiation[25] (OT levels), teachings are imparted which may be considered mystical and potentially harmful to unprepared readers. These teachings are kept secret from members who have not reached these levels. The Church states that the secrecy is warranted to keep its materials' use in context, to protect its members from being exposed to materials they are not yet prepared for.[26] They do not condone the use of their materials for personal entertainment, or critical review. These are the OT levels, the levels above "Clear", whose contents are guarded within Scientology. The OT level teachings include accounts of various cosmic catastrophes that befell the thetans.[27] The highest level, OT VIII, is only disclosed at sea, on the Scientology cruise ship Freewinds. It was released in the late 1980s. Since being entered into evidence in several court cases beginning in the early 1980s, synopses and excerpts of these secret teachings have appeared in numerous publications.[25] The material contained in the OT levels have been characterized as bad science fiction by critics, Women are encouraged to be as silent as possible and avoid taking drugs during birth. They can only make sounds but must not utter any words, and neither must the birthing staff, unless absolutely necessary. Newborns are deemed especially vulnerable to induced engrams and trauma transmitted from their mother or acquired from their environment. Scientology has a series of techniques called "assists" which are believed to alleviate injury, trauma or discomfort. These techniques are used are based on the belief that the spirit can solve the body’s difficulties by putting the spirit in communication with the body.[citation needed] Scientology oversees a program referred to as the "Purification Rundown", which is promoted as a method of "detoxification" developed by L. Ron Hubbard. It involves the use of saunas, exercise, vitamins, the drinking of oils, as well as light jogging. The Purification Rundown is usually the first step taken by a Scientologist attempting to attain a state of "Clear."[citation needed] While it is promoted as a health regimen within Scientology and in Scientology's drug rehabilitation program Narconon, the procedure is viewed as dangerous by most medical professionals[who?] who believe that vitamins are taken in excess of what are considered safe levels.[citation needed] [u]Squirreling[/u] When a scientologist hold nuts in their mouth. The Church of Scientology has argued that unauthorized distribution of information about Scientology practices will create a risk of improper application.[citation needed] The Religious Technology Center has prosecuted and harassed individual breakaway groups that have practiced Scientology outside the official Church without authorization.[citation needed] The act of using Scientology techniques in a form different than originally described by Hubbard is referred to within Scientology as "squirreling", and is said by Scientologists to be a "high crime".[35] Legal Waivers The Church of Scientology requires legal agreement to be signed for every member, which covers the relationship between the Church of Scientology and its members.[citation needed] It has become standard practice within the church to require members to sign lengthy legal waivers before engaging in Scientology services.[36][37] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 And yes, what I've read seems quite far fetched, but not much more far fetched than, AND GOD SAID, "LET THERE BE LIGHT"... I see a sunrise each day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 i want to emphasize that while i do not beleive in Scientology or agree to its creed , i am not saying anything damning about those who beleive in it ... I merely am pointing out some of the items in Scientology that i personally have a hard time beleiving in or agreeing to but I have said it many times on this board and i will say it again i am not judging anyone who believes differently than what i do ( Chirstianity ) ...thats not my job or role to do so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) When a scientologist hold nuts in their mouth. well now I know how they reeled in tom cruise. Edited January 5, 2009 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 I've found no completely credible source as they apparently guard their beliefs quite, uhh, religiously. I would question any thing that you read since it's not approved by their church. And yes, what I've read seems quite far fetched, but not much more far fetched than, AND GOD SAID, "LET THERE BE LIGHT"... who the fook was he talking to? this is pretty dumb. first of all, they won't even tell you what they believe....you have to pay higher and higher levels of money to gain those levels of wisdom. what legitimate religion operates like that? you know, I'm not a jew, or a muslim, or a catholic, or a buddhist....but I find plenty to respect and admire in those religious traditions. I would find plenty to quibble with, but I'm not going to call any of them kooky cults full of nothing but gullible idiots, because I know that's simply not true. I'm pretty sure it IS true with scientology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Why does Isle hate the Scientologists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I thought John would be comforted in knowing that his son isn't dead per se, but rather on a spaceship back to the home planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Why does Isle hate the Scientologists? I am ok with scientologists , its scientists I hate ....them with their E= MC2 and big fancy lab coats .... And bunsen burners wast more gas than a chevy yukon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 so we all know the major Scientolgists: Travolta, Cruise, Kirstie Alley, Lisa Marie & Momma Priscilla, but I was recently reading a list and Greta Van Sustern is a Scientologist....blew my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Oh, and if you pay $$$, your alien soul can be repaired. Meh, reminds me of a certain religion in the Middle Ages. Give Scientology another 1000 years or so and lets see how it has evolved in that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Oh, and to the point of Jett Travolta dying...can you really have a more fantasy like living being the son of a famous actor who is seemingly cool as the other side of the pillow with a hot mom and nothing to want for and an incredible life ahead of you...and you die at age 16? Jeebus, how sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 sounds like he had some sort of epilectic seizure, which more than likely may have been tied to his undiagnosed, untreated autism. undiagnosed and untreated because his parents are lunatic cultists who believe that such disorders do not exist (or are caused by malicious aliens, or whatever), and that he drugs to treat these disorders are poison. was his death totally avoidable? I kinda want to feel outraged at these morans for so clearly putting the health of their kid in jeopardy, but mostly I just feel sad for their loss and their stupidity. Wow, classy post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Wow, classy post! Yeah, Az's "mostly I just feel sad for their loss" was waaay over the top. :stirringpot: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I think Azz is showing a side of anger for people who's beliefs may interfere and prevent them from using beneficial, positive , medical care that is so readily available My father knew a person who lost a family member because they were jehovah's witness and would not allow for a simple transfusion that may have saved the persons life if the truth is that travolta's son died because his parents did not believe in a condition ( be it autism or complication from it ) that could have been treated with medication , I could understand the anger towards it Each day there are millions of children who die who could not be saved by modern medicine and modern medical procedures ...its just that much sadder when other children die who could have been saved or helped but who's parents did not allow for it or believe in it .... I Think Its sad that travolta's son died , period and regardless of why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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