wiegie Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I'm not sure I know any people for whom pot was a gateway into more serious drug addiction. but I know more than a couple for whom pot was very much a gateway into complete and utter loserdom. I think it should be legal, and in general I think it almost certainly has less overall negative impact on society than alcohol does, but I think it's a bit pollyannish to pretend that it doesn't lead a lot of people down some bad paths. I pretty much agree with this (although I personally might have chosen not to be quite so mean to Atomic). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 The variation of Josh Gordon called skunk is slowly ruining the pot experience. Exit mellow pothead with munchies, enter raving knife wielding psychopath. I am the last guy that will defend smoking pot, but I think the more relavent part of this story is here Ezekiel Maxwell, a paranoid schizophrenic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I agree with all of what has been said. Perhaps my passion on this subject has more to do with personal experience within my family and the horrible effects it has had on them. Because of my experience it's difficult for me to not personalize it. Both my daughter and son began smoking Josh Gordon when their Mom and I were in the midst of a separation and impending divorce in the mid 90's. This use escalated into stronger drugs (i.e.- cocaine, ecstacy, etc.) I was granted custody of both of my children during this time and their mother moved away and was an infrequent participator in their lives. Obviously, the break-up of our marriage and the departure of my childrens Mom contributed to the problem. My childrens drug use, starting with Josh Gordon, had a huge impact on our family and a incredible financial impact on me as I paid for 5 inpatient programs, multiple outpatient sessions and personal counseling. Two years ago I sent my son to a 6 month program in San Diego at the tune of 30K. It has been a very, very hard road. My daughter has been clean and sober for over 6 years and is now a drug and alcohol counselor helping other children and young adults. My son has not been as fortunate and is dealing with some mental illness due to extensive drug use. It's very painful for me to even talk about this and it's why this topic is such a hot button for me. I do agree that Josh Gordon use does not have the same affect on some as it does others but I also feel that the Josh Gordon use contributed greatly to the problem that my children and I have faced during the last 10-15 years. I'm certainly not trying to be naive ....... Well, I can certainly understand your perspective. Suffice it to say that legal, taxed, and regulated would be a better situation than the illegal, unregulated turf wars we have now but that doesn't mean that a decision to legalize it wouldn't come without it's own challenges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I am the last guy that will defend smoking pot, but I think the more relavent part of this story is hereEzekiel Maxwell, a paranoid schizophrenic Of course, there is this: 13% of schizophrenia from cannabis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Believe me, I get that. I'm sorry if my post was unnecessarily personal or harsh. It wasn't my intention to be an chalupa, but I think wiegie's right that I probably was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I am the last guy that will defend smoking pot, but I think the more relavent part of this story is here I think you might have cause and effect the wrong way round here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I'm sorry if my post was unnecessarily personal or harsh. It wasn't my intention to be an chalupa, but I think wiegie's right that I probably was. I think you misunderstood my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mucca Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Lets just make pot legal to buy, but outlaw inhaling it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) Name me one person whose live was basically lost to drug use who didn't first start smoking pot before their other drugs. Name One. One. Crackheads started with pot. Meth heads started with pot. Heroin addicts started with pot...at least all the ones I've ever met. Nobody is saying its worse than booze. Booze will never be illegal because it has gone too far and the policy can't be reversed without some sort of revolt. It doesn't make booze a good thing. Have any of you ever been to amsterdam?? Like I said, nice place to visit, but I would not want every major city in the US to start to become Amsterdam, which is exactly what would happen. It is a drug infested, weirdo inhabiting dump of a city. You guys are calling for personal control, but you know as well as I do that the kids are the ones that are going to abuse this, not those of us that have decided not to do drugs anymore. Just because we are losing the war on drugs, and tons of people do use this drug, doesn't mean we need to give up and make it legal. IMO it means we need to enforce it with harsher penalties, not the opposite. You know what, lets just skip this step, and walk around handing out crack. That would make this country such a wonderful place to live!! Crackheads and hookers on every corner, paradise!! Edited March 12, 2009 by Seahawks21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Name me one person whose live was basically lost to drug use who didn't first start smoking pot before their other drugs. Name One. One. Crackheads started with pot. Meth heads started with pot. Heroin addicts started with pot...at least all the ones I've ever met. Nobody is saying its worse than booze. Booze will never be illegal because it has gone too far and the policy can't be reversed without some sort of revolt. It doesn't make booze a good thing. Have any of you ever been to amsterdam?? Like I said, nice place to visit, but I would not want every major city in the US to start to become Amsterdam, which is exactly what would happen. It is a drug infested, weirdo inhabiting dump of a city. You guys are calling for personal control, but you know as well as I do that the kids are the ones that are going to abuse this, not those of us that have decided not to do drugs anymore. Just because we are losing the war on drugs, and tons of people do use this drug, doesn't mean we need to give up and make it legal. IMO it means we need to enforce it with harsher penalties, not the opposite. You know what, lets just skip this step, and walk around handing out crack. That would make this country such a wonderful place to live!! Crackheads and hookers on every corner, paradise!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) Name me one person whose live was basically lost to drug use who didn't first start smoking pot before their other drugs. Name One. One. Crackheads started with pot. Meth heads started with pot. Heroin addicts started with pot...at least all the ones I've ever met. Nobody is saying its worse than booze. Booze will never be illegal because it has gone too far and the policy can't be reversed without some sort of revolt. It doesn't make booze a good thing. Have any of you ever been to amsterdam?? Like I said, nice place to visit, but I would not want every major city in the US to start to become Amsterdam, which is exactly what would happen. It is a drug infested, weirdo inhabiting dump of a city. You guys are calling for personal control, but you know as well as I do that the kids are the ones that are going to abuse this, not those of us that have decided not to do drugs anymore. Just because we are losing the war on drugs, and tons of people do use this drug, doesn't mean we need to give up and make it legal. IMO it means we need to enforce it with harsher penalties, not the opposite. You know what, lets just skip this step, and walk around handing out crack. That would make this country such a wonderful place to live!! Crackheads and hookers on every corner, paradise!! Me, buthead. I never new I was an alcoholic/addict until I had a back injury and got started taking opiate pain pills. You must be about 16 because you sure know everything. ETA - I had never done Josh Gordon and had probably been drunk less than 10 times in my life before I started the pain pills. Additionally, studies have shown that the drug issue would be mostly solved by spending less than half what we do on the "War on (some) Drugs" on treatment. You'd also see gang violence go away. You ever see Pete Coors ridin' by the house of the Busch heirs looking to do a drive-by? Edited March 12, 2009 by westvirginia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Me, buthead. I never new I was an alcoholic/addict until I had a back injury and got started taking opiate pain pills. You must be about 16 because you sure know everything. about 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 about 30 That's right, he's the one who shares a house with five other guys. From Mommy's house to buddies house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) Name me one person whose live was basically lost to drug use who didn't first start smoking pot before their other drugs. Name One. One. Crackheads started with pot. Meth heads started with pot. Heroin addicts started with pot...at least all the ones I've ever met. Nobody is saying its worse than booze. Booze will never be illegal because it has gone too far and the policy can't be reversed without some sort of revolt. It doesn't make booze a good thing. Have any of you ever been to amsterdam?? Like I said, nice place to visit, but I would not want every major city in the US to start to become Amsterdam, which is exactly what would happen. It is a drug infested, weirdo inhabiting dump of a city. You guys are calling for personal control, but you know as well as I do that the kids are the ones that are going to abuse this, not those of us that have decided not to do drugs anymore. Just because we are losing the war on drugs, and tons of people do use this drug, doesn't mean we need to give up and make it legal. IMO it means we need to enforce it with harsher penalties, not the opposite. You know what, lets just skip this step, and walk around handing out crack. That would make this country such a wonderful place to live!! Crackheads and hookers on every corner, paradise!! Name one pot smoker who didn't have a drink of alcohol prior to smoking doobie. Your logic is terribly flawed. The city I live in , Los Angeles, has already more or less legalized it. And I've been to Amsterdam. It is STILL a nicer city, though I prefer the weather here. Edited March 12, 2009 by Pope Flick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) Sigh....some people will never understand the very complex society we exist within. Making sex and drug activites a crime has done exactly what for this society? It has generated an underground culture of those that choose to engage in these activities in spite of the law, it has been used to marginalize and oppress those members of the underground culture and it has generated a ton of money for those involved in enforecement and punishment (remember, prison is a growth industry!). With no legal means to enforce their commercial enterprise and/or brands, members of the underground culture have turned to violence to keep what they feel is rightfully theirs (gangs and pimps). Most importantly, it has not done one thing to slow down or suppress these activities in the least. The bottom line is that regardless of the fears associated with leagalizing sex and drugs and other victimless crimes, just throwing more money and more resources at the issue can not and will not work. Edited March 12, 2009 by Kid Cid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Sigh....some people will never understand the very complex society we exist within. Making sex and drug activites a crime has done exactly what for this society? It has generated an underground culture of those that choose to engage in these activities in spite of the law, it has been used to marginalize and oppress those members of the underground culture and it has generated a ton of money for those involved in enforecement and punishment (remember, prison is a growth industry!). With no legal means to enforce their commercial enterprise and/or brands, members of the underground culture have turned to violence to keep what they feel is rightfully theirs (gangs and pimps). Most importantly, it has not done one thing to slow down or suppress these activities in the least. The bottom line is that regardless of the fears associated with leagalizing sex and drugs and other victimless crimes, just throwing more money and more resources at the issue can not and will not work. It hasn't done anything to slow down these activities!?! Go to Amsterdam for one week, and you will thank your lucky stars that we have laws against drugs and prostitution. I think you guys may be onto something. Lets just give the drug dealers and prostitutes free reign to walk the streets of our cities and do whatever they please. That won't negatively impact our children in any way. Nah, not at all. There is an underground culture that mutilates women. Maybe we should make the mutilation of females legal as well, so our law enforcement doesn't have to try and stop the crime. Maybe the government can make money on female mutilation as well. We can just tax the little scalpels they use. Better yet, lets just drop all the laws. All of em. F it. We don't follow them anyways. Lets see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Name one pot smoker who didn't have a drink of alcohol prior to smoking doobie. Your logic is terribly flawed. The city I live in , Los Angeles, has already more or less legalized it. And I've been to Amsterdam. It is STILL a nicer city, though I prefer the weather here. well, me for one. How about all the little 13 year olds that are now part of the Josh Gordon culture? As was mentioned before, it is much easier for these kids to get pot than booze, and they also have less of a chance at getting caught. As a Jr. high coach, I am very sure that I have coached a lot of kids that were Josh Gordon users, and I'm sure some or most of them have drank before, but I'm also sure many have not. Are you talking about Oakland? Oakland is becoming a little amsterdam, but still isn't nearly as freakish. You can still walk around in Oakland at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 That's right, he's the one who shares a house with five other guys. From Mommy's house to buddies house. Oh man, what I wouldn't give to be back in mommie's house!!! You just might be onto something there. You guys may not remember, but there is something scary about smoking pot the first few times. Why? I dunno, maybe cause it's Illegal!?!?!? If you give these kids nothing at all to fear, many more will use. You are no longer sending a message that they will somehow be less of a person if they use drugs. Or prostitutes. Geez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missoula Griz Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Name me one person whose live was basically lost to drug use who didn't first start smoking pot before their other drugs. Name One. One. Crackheads started with pot. Meth heads started with pot. Heroin addicts started with pot...at least all the ones I've ever met. Nobody is saying its worse than booze. Booze will never be illegal because it has gone too far and the policy can't be reversed without some sort of revolt. It doesn't make booze a good thing. Have any of you ever been to amsterdam?? Like I said, nice place to visit, but I would not want every major city in the US to start to become Amsterdam, which is exactly what would happen. It is a drug infested, weirdo inhabiting dump of a city. You guys are calling for personal control, but you know as well as I do that the kids are the ones that are going to abuse this, not those of us that have decided not to do drugs anymore. Just because we are losing the war on drugs, and tons of people do use this drug, doesn't mean we need to give up and make it legal. IMO it means we need to enforce it with harsher penalties, not the opposite. You know what, lets just skip this step, and walk around handing out crack. That would make this country such a wonderful place to live!! Crackheads and hookers on every corner, paradise!! That may just be the most ignorant post I have read this year. Put down the crack pipe and grab a beer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Hookers are just a gateway to beastiality... trust me, I know! I don't think we should legalize pot. Let's just (continue to) let the CIA distribute it to undeseriable races in order to keep them from becoming too sucessful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 That may just be the most ignorant post I have read this year. Put down the crack pipe and grab a beer... Oh yeah, which part in particular, or do you just feel like piling on here? Grab a beer. There's a solution. I know I'm not ever going to win a battle over beer in this crowd, but I've seen what alcohol can do, and I've seen the fool the average man becomes after enjoying his "reward" for working hard all week. I know far too many people whose lives have been forever changed in the negative direction from alcohol to "grab a beer". No thanks. More for you, as long as you stay off my roads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Name me one person whose live was basically lost to drug use who didn't first start smoking pot before their other drugs. Name One. One. Crackheads started with pot. Meth heads started with pot. Heroin addicts started with pot...at least all the ones I've ever met. Nobody is saying its worse than booze. Booze will never be illegal because it has gone too far and the policy can't be reversed without some sort of revolt. It doesn't make booze a good thing. Have any of you ever been to amsterdam?? Like I said, nice place to visit, but I would not want every major city in the US to start to become Amsterdam, which is exactly what would happen. It is a drug infested, weirdo inhabiting dump of a city. You guys are calling for personal control, but you know as well as I do that the kids are the ones that are going to abuse this, not those of us that have decided not to do drugs anymore. Just because we are losing the war on drugs, and tons of people do use this drug, doesn't mean we need to give up and make it legal. IMO it means we need to enforce it with harsher penalties, not the opposite. You know what, lets just skip this step, and walk around handing out crack. That would make this country such a wonderful place to live!! Crackheads and hookers on every corner, paradise!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Hookers are just a gateway to beastiality... trust me, I know! I don't think we should legalize pot. Let's just (continue to) let the CIA distribute it to undeseriable races in order to keep them from becoming too sucessful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I think you misunderstood my post. Oh yeah... well that doesn't mean that what I misunderstood is any less true. well, me for one. How about all the little 13 year olds that are now part of the Josh Gordon culture? Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?!?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vt700guy Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Oh yeah, which part in particular, or do you just feel like piling on here? Grab a beer. There's a solution. I know I'm not ever going to win a battle over beer in this crowd, but I've seen what alcohol can do, and I've seen the fool the average man becomes after enjoying his "reward" for working hard all week. I know far too many people whose lives have been forever changed in the negative direction from alcohol to "grab a beer". No thanks. More for you, as long as you stay off my roads. I didn't know it was possible to disagree with 100% of another persons beliefs in life until I started reading your posts. I don't think I've found a single issue that we agree on yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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