Will the United States ever not be in debt?

[Kid Cid]

I was thinking about things the other day and I had to ask, is there any chance that this nation ever pays off this debt that we've amassed? I'm pretty convinced that the day this country ceases to exist there are going to be plenty of pissed off people that are going to want to get paid.

[Caveman_Nick]

Puddy: The country will be in debt until the Gubment collapses financially, taking the rest of us down with it.

[Azazello1313]

how in the world would you pay down the debt while running a deficit? I think that one is mathematically impossible.

 

in any case, a little bit of debt is not really a problem. debt that is equivalent to an entire year's worth of GDP is scary, unsustainable, and it seems to me a possible prelude to a REAL financial crisis.

[Perchoutofwater]

Your poll is flawed. I doubt we will ever pay off all our debt, but I do not agree that the country runs better with a carrying some debt. I agree that a balanced budget is needed, but budgets need to be two or three year cycles to take care of any anomalies that may come up. Face it we are on the path to ruin. How many of the people that voted in the last election actually were net tax payers? How many will be net tax payers in 2012? As long as people that don't contribute continue to vote for hand unfunded hand outs, we are screwed. The whole problem goes back to FDR. Had he not fundamentally changed federal government and the services it provides, we would have never gotten into this mess. Our founding fathers saw this day and warned against it.

[Perchoutofwater]

"We believe--or we act as if we believed--that although an individual father cannot alienate the labor of his son, the aggregate body of fathers may alienate the labor of all their sons, of their posterity, in the aggregate, and oblige them to pay for all the enterprises, just or unjust, profitable or ruinous, into which our vices, our passions or our personal interests may lead us. But I trust that this proposition needs only to be looked at by an American to be seen in its true point of view, and that we shall all consider ourselves unauthorized to saddle posterity with our debts, and morally bound to pay them ourselves; and consequently within what may be deemed the period of a generation, or the life of the majority." --Thomas Jefferson to John Wayles Eppes, 1813.

 

"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world." --Thomas Jefferson to A. L. C. Destutt de Tracy, 1820.

[whomper]

If FDR would have went straight to the police..This would have never had happened .

[Cunning Runt]

I voted Puddy on the 2nd question, but only because of how it was worded.

 

I believe the answer is "no", but you added that the country runs better when we're carrying some debt. How would we know? I would think we'd actually run better if we weren't carrying debt. I just don't think we'll ever see it.

[Ursa Majoris]

I would have liked to see a "No, we're screwed" option in the first poll.

 

And we are until the populace gets it through their heads that we're all in this together, many sacred cows are going to have to be slaughtered and as goes the nation, so go we.

 

Judging by the savings rate, many have got the message on an individual basis but the bottom line is that, like any business, USA Incorporated needs to at least balance it's finances. To do that, we, the voters, have to understand that some expectations we may have need to be radically modified.

[dmarc117]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4e02aeba-6fd8-11...?nclick_check=1

[dmarc117]

I would have liked to see a "No, we're screwed" option in the first poll.

 

And we are until the populace gets it through their heads that we're all in this together, many sacred cows are going to have to be slaughtered and as goes the nation, so go we.

 

Judging by the savings rate, many have got the message on an individual basis but the bottom line is that, like any business, USA Incorporated needs to at least balance it's finances. To do that, we, the voters, have to understand that some expectations we may have need to be radically modified.

 

 

In Recession vs. Collapse published in March, this blog explained that in a normal recession existing savings are used to support government debt issuance and that those who remain employed increase their savings to also support government debt issuance. Neither phenomenon is at work today. Yes, the savings rate has soared in the US. But this has not resulted in any actual accrued savings. Because private sector debt came to define the internal structure of the US system, savings currently is little more than debt service. Also, bank purchases of US Treasuries are really just a result of the circularity of monetization. It’s just money from the FED being recycled into Treasuries. There is no privately driven growth of bank deposits, in the aggregate. Americans as a class are broke. What the savings rate more accurately measures is a collapse of consumer spending.

 

[Ursa Majoris]

Because those savings are going to pay down debt, in large measure. That's the mess people are in now that the HELOC piggy bank is closed. It will take a while but the habits of a generation may be changing so that when the debt is paid down, the saving habit may survive. It's no different for the nation as a whole.

[TimC]

There is debt and then there is DEBT. Carrying $500 on a credit card is no biggie. Carrying $50,000 on one is.

 

The United States is currently carrying Eleventy billion dollars on their credit card.

[Azazello1313]

would someone who answered "no, we can juggle things around and still pay down the debt and run a yearly budget deficit" to the second question please explain to me how they think that is possible.

[dmarc117]

Because those savings are going to pay down debt, in large measure. That's the mess people are in now that the HELOC piggy bank is closed. It will take a while but the habits of a generation may be changing so that when the debt is paid down, the saving habit may survive. It's no different for the nation as a whole.

 

 

alot of people are living on savings as well and not paying down debt.

[Big John]

There is debt and then there is DEBT. Carrying $500 on a credit card is no biggie. Carrying $50,000 on one is.

 

The United States is currently carrying Eleventy billion dollars on their credit card.

The US debt is much higher than $110,000,000,000.

 

See dmarc's link: http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=289286

Edited July 14, 2009 by Big John

[Kid Cid]

would someone who answered "no, we can juggle things around and still pay down the debt and run a yearly budget deficit" to the second question please explain to me how they think that is possible.

 

The only reason I worded it this way is because this is the attitude that many in Congress seem to have. I don't necesarily believe that it can be done either.

[wiegie]

given that we haven't paid off the debt completely in the last 170 years, my bet is "no".

[Avernus]

Your poll is flawed. I doubt we will ever pay off all our debt, but I do not agree that the country runs better with a carrying some debt. I agree that a balanced budget is needed, but budgets need to be two or three year cycles to take care of any anomalies that may come up. Face it we are on the path to ruin. How many of the people that voted in the last election actually were net tax payers? How many will be net tax payers in 2012? As long as people that don't contribute continue to vote for hand unfunded hand outs, we are screwed. The whole problem goes back to FDR. Had he not fundamentally changed federal government and the services it provides, we would have never gotten into this mess. Our founding fathers saw this day and warned against it.

 

+1

 

I personally think that something wil REALLY change within the next 5 years...and not on some campaign slogan/gimmick type change...

 

I mean real change...on a global level on the way we look at currencies...

[isleseeya]

given that we haven't paid off the debt completely in the last 170 years, my bet is "no".

 

 

100 correct !

 

+1

 

I personally think that something wil REALLY change within the next 5 years...and not on some campaign slogan/gimmick type change...

 

I mean real change...on a global level on the way we look at currencies...

 

i am not sure where any optimism would come to suggest this

 

We as a country do not manufacture the way we did 50-100 years ago ...we will import much more than we export and this will not change ..we will consistently need China and other countries and the amount of debt we are accruing is growing at staggering levels ...there is nothing that suggests this changes much if at all

[Avernus]

100 correct !

 

 

 

i am not sure where any optimism would come to suggest this

 

We as a country do not manufacture the way we did 50-100 years ago ...we will import much more than we export and this will not change ..we will consistently need China and other countries and the amount of debt we are accruing is growing at staggering levels ...there is nothing that suggests this changes much if at all

 

 

my post was about the global economy and a global currency along the lines of a credit system...

[TimC]

The dirty little secret no one talks about and the fact of the matter is Democrats that voted for Obama hate their children and grandchildren. They are simply passing off having that big house, shiny car and everything paid for them without earning it by passing it off to future generations. I think children should immediately rise up and kill their parents. It's really the only way.

 

I get so tired of these handouts and bailouts and simply putting off the bill until after you're dead naturally. You people should be ashamed. Why do you hate your kids so much? When you wake up in the middle of the night tonight and your sweet little 3-year old is hovering over you with a butcher knife, it'll be too late to be sorry for what you've done to them. And Obama won't be there to save you either.

[Cunning Runt]

The dirty little secret no one talks about and the fact of the matter is Democrats that voted for Obama hate their children and grandchildren. They are simply passing off having that big house, shiny car and everything paid for them without earning it by passing it off to future generations. I think children should immediately rise up and kill their parents. It's really the only way.

 

I get so tired of these handouts and bailouts and simply putting off the bill until after you're dead naturally. You people should be ashamed. Why do you hate your kids so much? When you wake up in the middle of the night tonight and your sweet little 3-year old is hovering over you with a butcher knife, it'll be too late to be sorry for what you've done to them. And Obama won't be there to save you either.

 

Damn Shanikwa. You need help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TimC]

Damn Shanikwa. You need help.

 

 

 

How did you know my real name? Anyone over 40 has lived a pretty good life on credit and debt. And yet the answer to get you out of this mess is more debt? It's time to pay up. Don't force it on your children. Be a f'n man and start paying your share back. Old people should be ashamed of their life they are leaving for their children. I'm the only one brave and realistic enough to say it. The truth hurts but most people live for the day. Carpe Diem.

[Cunning Runt]

How did you know my real name? Anyone over 40 has lived a pretty good life on credit and debt. And yet the answer to get you out of this mess is more debt? It's time to pay up. Don't force it on your children. Be a f'n man and start paying your share back. Old people should be ashamed of their life they are leaving for their children. I'm the only one brave and realistic enough to say it. The truth hurts but most people live for the day. Carpe Diem.

 

I agree with ya on what you're saying.

 

It was the three yr old standing over you with a butcher knife comment that prompted me to use your real name. Just cracked me up.

[TimC]

I agree with ya on what you're saying.

 

It was the three yr old standing over you with a butcher knife comment that prompted me to use your real name. Just cracked me up.

 

I remember when I used to stand over my Daddy with a butcher knife. Good times indeed. It's an American tradition and something we can all cherish.